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Solar panel and wind generator combo


MichaelG

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Hi all, I am looking at installing a modest single panel, probably about 250w solar system on the boat. I realise it won't serve all my power needs but am just looking really to offset some of the demand. I don't want a roof choc full of panels hence just a single panel. I am thinking of supplementing the panel with a single wind turbine. A company called Giga turbines were showing at Crick last year and they had some really neat and quiet little units. They quote they put out 30w at a windspeed of 13 mps so quite a stiff breeze. So the output would be quite low but ofcourse would be working when the panel is not, IE on wintry overcast days and at night. I wondered if anyone combines the two and how well it works. I presume solar and wind can both be wired through a single controller?

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2 minutes ago, MichaelG said:

They quote they put out 30w at a windspeed of 13 mps so quite a stiff breeze.

13m/s is 30mph considerably more than a 'stiff breeze'

At 30mph not many boats are moving.

 

Remember that canals are generally at very low levels and in cuttings, sheltered by hedges, trees and house.

 

A 30w windymill will be outputting very little  at canal level.

 

Save your money.

  • Greenie 3
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you would need either a specialised controller or 2 controllers for wind & solar (there's no electrical reason that you couldn't run 50 controllers).

 

wind turbines require smooth airflow to work well so any trees or hedgerows etc will vastly reduce your output meaning you need a far stronger wind to get anywhere near the rated figures.

 

generally they only work well high up (well above anything to disrupt the airflow) or in coastal locations where they can catch the fairly constant sea breezes, on inland waterways they don't seem popular because of low / intermittent output and constant noise.

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21 minutes ago, linda and tony grimes said:

Do you think that Solar is worth the investment in England?  

 

Certainly if you want to keep your batteries in good condition without running the engine or generator for 6 hours a day whilst stationary. I had 2 x 100 watt panels mounted flat on the boat when I bought it. This winter I had another 700 watts of tiltable panels installed. Even on a rainy overcast day like today, I ran my engine for just over an hour to get the batteries charged to a decent level, the solar is now putting in about 5A which will probably continue for another couple of hours and the batteries will be fully charged by the end of the day. 

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Bear in mind that the power profile for small wind turbines in not a straight line graph. If they quote  up to 30 watts at 30mph as the wind speed drops the power output drops rapidly so that at  normal wind speeds the output is negligible. And other than the last few weeks how often do we get 30mph wind.

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3 hours ago, linda and tony grimes said:

Do you think that Solar is worth the investment in England?  

 

Depends on the alternatives. If you spend most of the year plugged in to a shoreline, it takes a long time to pay off. If you spend a lot of time moored on the towpath and the only power generation is from the engine or a genereator then very much worth it.  On a typical boat most people use 150 amp hours a day which 1.8 kilowatts when living aboard. To recharge your batteries to need to put in about 2 kilowatts. From a shoreline that should cost about 30-40 pence. From your engine probably nearly 2 quid and from a generator abour 1.5 quid.  Solar panels and controller to produce that power for 8 months of the year will cost about 300 pounds. If you live aboard a lot on the towpath you can get that cost back in the first year, (200 days) after that for the next 15  odd years it's all free.

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Thank you all for the response. I know about solar we had them in Spain but there was sunshine all day long. England, not so much so the question arose in my head that maybe not the best investment. We will get solar. I love it. Clean and efficient.  Sincerely, Linda and Tony 

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2 hours ago, Detling said:

Depends on the alternatives. If you spend most of the year plugged in to a shoreline, it takes a long time to pay off. If you spend a lot of time moored on the towpath and the only power generation is from the engine or a genereator then very much worth it.  On a typical boat most people use 150 amp hours a day which 1.8 kilowatts when living aboard. To recharge your batteries to need to put in about 2 kilowatts. From a shoreline that should cost about 30-40 pence. From your engine probably nearly 2 quid and from a generator abour 1.5 quid.  Solar panels and controller to produce that power for 8 months of the year will cost about 300 pounds. If you live aboard a lot on the towpath you can get that cost back in the first year, (200 days) after that for the next 15  odd years it's all free.

Yes, solar works well for most people but as you say for some it's not needed. At present mooring we are plugged in but summer before last for instance we cruised everyday which fully charged the batteries so we had no need of solar and I took it off. They are great for off grid full time liveaboards and continuous moorers. 

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Marlec have  a regulator for up to 200W solar and it has an entry for its wind turbine too on the same regulator. Their technology has improved loads now but with the old 910 model of wind genny (or most gennys) as another poster has said unless it is high up you may not pain much power. Gusts are no good ...you need a constant flow of wind to produce energy. For my money, solar is much better

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4 hours ago, linda and tony grimes said:

Thank you all for the response. I know about solar we had them in Spain but there was sunshine all day long. England, not so much so the question arose in my head that maybe not the best investment. We will get solar. I love it. Clean and efficient.  Sincerely, Linda and Tony 

 

Bear in mind "Wotever's Law":

 

"However much solar you have, it will be too much in summer and not enough in winter".

 

Certainly true my experience.

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Having spent years living on a cruising yacht with a big solar array and a wind generator I can tell you categorically a wind generator on the canals will be utterly pointless.  We had an Air Breeze with a  built in regulator and yes it was worth it on occassions in a windy anchorage and on passage at night but under 12knts of constant breeze it really was just an irritating buzzing contraption.

 

I am a massive devotee of solar and yes in sunnier climes they really are all you need yearound and will definately put a decent array on whatever boat I buy.  

 

There is one thing you need to be aware of and that is when using them in the UK Winter the brackets must allow for significant tilting.  I have a small panel at home and have done a few experiments in the garden and from horizontal to 60° there is a difference of close to four times in the output.  Simply put lose a panel and pay to have some decent tilting brackets made up makes electrical and economic sense. 

 

My logic based on years of live-aboard life is as big a house bank as you can afford and the biggest solar array you have room for and if you want to dump the excess production in the summer a 12vDC element in your water heater.  This is from somebody who lived for weeks at a time at anchor without ever dreaming of firing up the engine to charge the batteries. Yes sunnier climes but a fridge and freezer trying to keep cool with very high ambient temps in the boat chewed up a lot of juice.

 

 

 

 

 

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We too spent a lot of time liveaboard on a lumpy water boat and have lots of experience of wind turbines. They were bad to useless in the marine environment  so they would be ten times worse on the canals (much less wind). The real problem though is the noise ....all night..... They may be quiet when you buy them but give 'em a season out and about and they squeak, groan, etc etc. Listening to 5 or 6 of them in a marina on a blowy night was a nightmare. I would not like to be a neigbour of yours if you get one.

 

If wind generators worked on the canals, then there would be a lot of boats with them. There aren't!

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18 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

We too spent a lot of time liveaboard on a lumpy water boat and have lots of experience of wind turbines. They were bad to useless in the marine environment  so they would be ten times worse on the canals (much less wind). The real problem though is the noise ....all night..... They may be quiet when you buy them but give 'em a season out and about and they squeak, groan, etc etc. Listening to 5 or 6 of them in a marina on a blowy night was a nightmare. I would not like to be a neigbour of yours if you get one.

 

If wind generators worked on the canals, then there would be a lot of boats with them. There aren't!

I have a VAWT its quiet and as we get a lot of wind down the canal it does ok as its high, it really just helps in the winter for the lower output from the solar

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28 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

If wind generators worked on the canals, then there would be a lot of boats with them. There aren't!

 

I've had a wind generator for years. One day, I'll take it out the box. The thought of transferred noise throughout the boat has probably caused my laziness. Ahem..

 

 

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The other consideration is cost. Solar panels are now so cheap by comparison ( when I outfitted my yacht we were looking at $1 a watt, way less than that now)  that reduces the value of wind even more.   

 

I'm sure I could find circumstances on the canals where one would be useful but they would be so few and far between as to make them as I said before pointless.  

 

My 10 year real world experience of a unit that cost north of $1500 to buy is simple,  more solar panels and a bigger battery bank to give you more capacity and less degradation caused by overly deep discharge of your batteries is way more bang for your buck.

 

We spent over $450 on instal, not the electrical side just the physical pole brackets and rubber mounts. If you don't they will whine and vibrate making sleep nigh on impossible.  Oh and yes Bob many a quiet anchorage has been rendered very painful by just one badly maintained wind turbine.

 

The only time it ever came into its own was to help take the load of night passages when we were using the Radar Nav Lights etc etc, as well as having to keep up with the general house load.

 

Surely something like a Travel Power Generator would be better value???

 

I'd love to see data that counters my conclusions.  Anybody????

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2 hours ago, fluffflinger said:

The other consideration is cost. Solar panels are now so cheap by comparison ( when I outfitted my yacht we were looking at $1 a watt, way less than that now)  that reduces the value of wind even more.   

 

I'm sure I could find circumstances on the canals where one would be useful but they would be so few and far between as to make them as I said before pointless.  

 

My 10 year real world experience of a unit that cost north of $1500 to buy is simple,  more solar panels and a bigger battery bank to give you more capacity and less degradation caused by overly deep discharge of your batteries is way more bang for your buck.

 

We spent over $450 on instal, not the electrical side just the physical pole brackets and rubber mounts. If you don't they will whine and vibrate making sleep nigh on impossible.  Oh and yes Bob many a quiet anchorage has been rendered very painful by just one badly maintained wind turbine.

 

The only time it ever came into its own was to help take the load of night passages when we were using the Radar Nav Lights etc etc, as well as having to keep up with the general house load.

 

Surely something like a Travel Power Generator would be better value???

 

I'd love to see data that counters my conclusions.  Anybody????

I can't tell you what mine produces but its silent and wasn't expensive, like solar it's come down in price through the winter it's made life easier 

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Peterboat

 

If it works for you then that's great, I apologise but I am dubious as to how much use it really is, I assume you don't have it connected to an ammeter???  . If you think it has any sort of output make sure that you balance the voltage set point so it doesn't argue with your solar controller.  The Air Breeze was great as it had an on board controller and was simple to adjust.

 

Would you be happy to share what horizontal axis turbine you have??? At least then we can see what claims the manufacturer makes if you have no numbers.  Sadly even the reputable big brands are,  shall we say, adventurous with their numbers. I have seen a few low output marine units (very expensive) and a plenty from China on eBay and Amazon.

 

I have seen pretty much all of the decent units and of them I've tried the majority.

 

Look forward to hearing what you are using.

 

Best

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, fluffflinger said:

If it works for you then that's great, I apologise but I am dubious as to how much use it really is, I assume you don't have it connected to an ammeter???

 

You really don't have a grip on how sophisticated these Whispergens are.

 

Mine chucks out a nominal 30A at 24Vdc, confirmed by the Victron BMV-712, at the same time as heating my water and radiators. It will charge the lithiums at that rate for as long as I like in near silence, all night if I wish. Or until the boat gets too hot ?

 

Peter's wind turbine is a vertical axis. 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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Sorry my mistake vertical axis. I stand corrected and yes I was aware of what Peterboat was using just my mistake.

 

But Mike I don't understand why you are quoting me in your last post. I thought we were discussing wind turbines not gensets?

 

 

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39 minutes ago, fluffflinger said:

But Mike I don't understand why you are quoting me in your last post. I thought we were discussing wind turbines not gensets?

 

 

I thought you were quibbling about Gretaboat's Whispergen.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, fluffflinger said:

Peterboat

 

If it works for you then that's great, I apologise but I am dubious as to how much use it really is, I assume you don't have it connected to an ammeter???  . If you think it has any sort of output make sure that you balance the voltage set point so it doesn't argue with your solar controller.  The Air Breeze was great as it had an on board controller and was simple to adjust.

 

Would you be happy to share what horizontal axis turbine you have??? At least then we can see what claims the manufacturer makes if you have no numbers.  Sadly even the reputable big brands are,  shall we say, adventurous with their numbers. I have seen a few low output marine units (very expensive) and a plenty from China on eBay and Amazon.

 

I have seen pretty much all of the decent units and of them I've tried the majority.

 

Look forward to hearing what you are using.

 

Best

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

Bought from Amazon 600 watts  3 phase with controller its maximum output is slightly higher than my solar controller which is set to be safe for my LifePo4s. It is working because on windy days my voltage goes up overnight, which means it powered my fridge freezer and composting toilet fan, not huge amounts I know but better than nowt.  All for £180 so no complaints from me 

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