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Another Red Diesel Threat


Tim Lewis

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When I got my 1st company car with  cat, both the 'book', and the dealer made sure that I was aware of NEVER parking on long grass, as the heat would cause the grass to burn and the car would be cremated.

That is the reason my workhorse landcruiser was converted to LPG and de-catted before it was put to work.

working (at the time) in hot air ballooning meant it spent a good amount of time pulling heavy loads in & out of stubble fields.

Common vehicles (all lpg/decatted or old enough to have no cat) range rover, discovery, nissan patrol, jeep cherokee and landcruiser amazons.

 

I know of one crew that switched vehicles mid-season (from a battered cherokee to a better looking one) and forgot to remove the cat, 3rd flight it went up in flames (total loss and heavy damage to the trailer although the balloon survived)

 

Edited to add...

The reason for lpg conversion before removing the cats is that is the easiest way of removing the requirement for having a cat on the exhaust for MOT purposes, of course the fuel cost savings running a 4.7 litre V8 make lpg conversion attractive too

Edited by Jess--
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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Some DPFs are a meter away from the cat so exhaust gas is measured at the cat, it cools as it travels

Bad design then, DPF here is right behind the engine next to the Turbo so 20cm at most, hardly time to cool down.

 

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21 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Bad design then, DPF here is right behind the engine next to the Turbo so 20cm at most, hardly time to cool down.

 

Lots of them like it especially V engines it would add thousands to the price and often no room to fit them in

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4 hours ago, peterboat said:

Lots of them like it especially V engines it would add thousands to the price and often no room to fit them in

Maybe VW got the EA189 engine / exhaust right  ;)

 

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18 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Maybe VW got the EA189 engine / exhaust right  ;)

 

I was in Scotland last week we had to do a forced regeneration on a Skoda yeti! Not the cars fault but the owner who runs his car on the low fuel warning light all the time! 

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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

.........the owner who runs his car on the low fuel warning light all the time! 

It can only happen in Scotland............or Yorkshire 

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I was in Scotland last week we had to do a forced regeneration on a Skoda yeti! Not the cars fault but the owner who runs his car on the low fuel warning light all the time! 

This has been mentioned on the Yet forum, however;

I think it might  depend on the cars age,  Mk1 Yeti's still regen even with the low fuel light on, well mine has done several times ;)

They might not regen if the range is less than 10miles but I have never tested that.

Suspect its the usual short journeys (under 10 miles) that did it, lots of started but incomplete regens.

With mine if it starts a regen I continue driving until its over, several times when a regen has just started as I get home I have driven to Horns Cross and back for no other reason.

 

 

47 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not knowing what you are talking about what difference does it make how much fuel you have so long as you dont run out

Depends on which diesel you have ;)

I can explain over a beer too long winded for on here.

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2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

This has been mentioned on the Yet forum, however;

I think it might  depend on the cars age,  Mk1 Yeti's still regen even with the low fuel light on, well mine has done several times ;)

They might not regen if the range is less than 10miles but I have never tested that.

Suspect its the usual short journeys (under 10 miles) that did it, lots of started but incomplete regens.

With mine if it starts a regen I continue driving until its over, several times when a regen has just started as I get home I have driven to Horns Cross and back for no other reason.

 

 

Depends on which diesel you have ;)

I can explain over a beer too long winded for on here.

Yes you are sensible and have enough fuel in to do the regeneration the idiot that owned the Yeti never did so a forced regeneration it was when it was towed in as a non runner!

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13 minutes ago, Loddon said:

With mine if it starts a regen I continue driving until its over, several times when a regen has just started as I get home I have driven to Horns Cross and back for no other reason.

Whilst that may be better for your car, it does seem to completely defeat the point of a lower emission engine.

 

If you feel like you have to do extra miles because of your lower emission car then something is very wrong somewhere.  I do understand why the engine only wants to do the clean cycle at the correct temperatures, but if yours only wants to start doing it just as you would like to stop, then maybe you should consider getting a different vehicle!

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Whilst that may be better for your car, it does seem to completely defeat the point of a lower emission engine.

 

If you feel like you have to do extra miles because of your lower emission car then something is very wrong somewhere.  I do understand why the engine only wants to do the clean cycle at the correct temperatures, but if yours only wants to start doing it just as you would like to stop, then maybe you should consider getting a different vehicle!

And you have hit the nail on the head !

 

Edited by peterboat
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41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Whilst that may be better for your car, it does seem to completely defeat the point of a lower emission engine.

 

If you feel like you have to do extra miles because of your lower emission car then something is very wrong somewhere.  I do understand why the engine only wants to do the clean cycle at the correct temperatures, but if yours only wants to start doing it just as you would like to stop, then maybe you should consider getting a different vehicle!

Not because its a low emission car but to make the car last as long as possible. When I got the car 2.5years and some 65kmiles ago it was doing 250-300 between regens and the DPF was under half full now it is down to 110miles and the DPF is 3/4 full so by treating it correctly I should see 200k before the DPF needs replacing, which on the much lower use it has now may see me out.

Most of the time when journeys are under 5 miles I use C's Petrol Rav4 which although its better for local pollution is worse for the planet.

If  you can find me a car costing under 5k that will tow 1.5ton with ease, wont get stuck on muddy tracks and is 100%green then I will consider it.

 

Until then I will stay with the Yeti.

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From the BBC Website:

Chancellor to scrap diesel tax relief

The chancellor says he will scrap a scheme that allows companies in some sectors to pay duty of just over 11p per litre for diesel, compared to almost 58p per litre for everyone else.

"But the sectors using red diesel are some of the biggest contributors to our air quality problem - emitting nearly 10% of the most noxious gases polluting the air of cities like London," he tells MPs.

"This is a tax relief on nearly 14 million tonnes of carbon dioxide every year", which, he says, is the same as the entire population of London and Greater Manchester taking a return flight to New York.

"It’s been a £2.4bn tax break for pollution that’s also hindered the development of cleaner alternatives. So I will abolish the tax relief for most sectors."

 

Agriculture was the only sector mentioned that will be exempt from this.

Nothing said about the 'domestic' use of red.

 

I'm confused!

Where does that leave us?

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11 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

From the BBC Website:

Chancellor to scrap diesel tax relief

The chancellor says he will scrap a scheme that allows companies in some sectors to pay duty of just over 11p per litre for diesel, compared to almost 58p per litre for everyone else.

"But the sectors using red diesel are some of the biggest contributors to our air quality problem - emitting nearly 10% of the most noxious gases polluting the air of cities like London," he tells MPs.

"This is a tax relief on nearly 14 million tonnes of carbon dioxide every year", which, he says, is the same as the entire population of London and Greater Manchester taking a return flight to New York.

"It’s been a £2.4bn tax break for pollution that’s also hindered the development of cleaner alternatives. So I will abolish the tax relief for most sectors."

 

Agriculture was the only sector mentioned that will be exempt from this.

Nothing said about the 'domestic' use of red.

 

I'm confused!

Where does that leave us?

He specifically said that domestic heating was exempt.  Red on a boat is for domestic heating.

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Therefore no change, even in two years time, for boats using red diesel for domestic purposes.

Unless the EU ruling is obeyed and white diesel has to be used for boats.

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Just now, MartynG said:

Therefore no change, even in two years time, for boats using red diesel for domestic purposes.

Unless the EU ruling is obeyed and white diesel has to be used for boats.

I’ve a feeling you won’t be able to self declare if you have one tank...so two tanks and a valve system!! 

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2 minutes ago, frangar said:

I’ve a feeling you won’t be able to self declare if you have one tank...so two tanks and a valve system!! 

Is  the retailer expected to check how many tanks you have? I dont think so.

In any case hopefully no change for the next two years .

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From: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/budget-2020-documents/budget-2020

 

"In addition, the government will promote air quality improvement by removing the entitlement to use red diesel except for agriculture, fish farming, rail and non-commercial heating."

 

And more detail...

 

"Red diesel: Removing entitlement – The government will remove entitlement to the use of red diesel and rebated biofuels from April 2022, except for agriculture (including horticulture, pisciculture and forestry), rail and for non-commercial heating (including domestic heating). The government will consult on whether the entitlement to use red diesel and rebated biofuels is justified for any other users, for example there is a strong case for continued use by ferries carrying paid passengers on the UK’s rivers and inland waterways, or public entertainment. Commercial boats on open waters, including ferries and fishing boats, will remain entitled to the Marine Voyages Relief so will not have to pay more for their fuel. This measure will incentivise businesses to improve the energy efficiency of their vehicles and machinery or look for greener alternatives. To support the development of alternatives that these businesses can switch to, the Budget has also committed to at least doubling the size of the energy innovation programme, accelerating the design and production of innovative clean energy technologies. (39)

Red diesel: Prohibition of use for propelling private pleasure craft – Private pleasure craft already pay the standard white diesel rate for propulsion. They will still be entitled to use red diesel for their heating use. Where they have one tank for propulsion and heating, the government will explore options that prevent them from having to pay a higher rate of duty on their heating use than they would otherwise have to pay. Details on the implementation of this power will be set out in due course."

Edited by Psychalist
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37 minutes ago, frangar said:

Think I’m about to get a bulk tank at my unit....

 

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

I’ve a feeling you won’t be able to self declare if you have one tank...so two tanks and a valve system!! 

Reading the last post looks like you wont be able to buy it for your unit, when I used to buy it for the business it got very difficult soon as I changed to kero the difficulties disappeared! Do you know that you only have to add a small amount of two stroke oil to kero to make it fit for diesel engines? thats the old types like boats run, not advised for common rail units, and you can buy blue two stroke oil so no red dye ?

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