Another Red Diesel Threat

[peterboat]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm losing faith now, if lpg was so fantastic why has govt not set up free gas points?

Why have so few cars been converted.

Diesel engines produce particulates, this is bad to inhale, this has been known forever, a similar problem to burning fossil fuels in power stations, particulates /SO2/3, Nox.

Keep people out of city centres, ban all new cars, provide free escooters, wheelchairs, buses, taxis, trains.

Filter the exhaust gases. Close the Tube.

I did over a thousand gas conversions and it can be blended with hydrogen to make it cleaner but then I believe in cleaning up emissions for our children and grandchildren unlike others 

[frangar]

19 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I did over a thousand gas conversions and it can be blended with hydrogen to make it cleaner but then I believe in cleaning up emissions for our children and grandchildren unlike others 

It’s multiple children/grandchildren that’s  the problem....too many people for the space...if people had more restraint on breeding we wouldn’t have a problem. 

[Flyboy]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

24 volrs for domestic heating and domestic batteries that's why I put drive batteries 72 volts to catch you out

Looks like its going to cost you for your leisure activities then isn't it?

Have you not got an 72 volt inverter charger to go with your Whispergen then?  Obviously not up to speed on the available technology then.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Flyboy

[peterboat]

54 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Have you not got an 72 volt inverter charger to go with your Wispergen then?  Obviously not up to speed on the available technology then.

Don't need one 4.6kw of solar does what I need 

[Momac]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

I can't answer that, but it is true.

You are not "a business" you are buying from the marina, at least the marina invoices me, I believe the unit charge is capped.

Businesses have to charge for services provided, one way or t'other

I thought they were not allowed to profit from the electricity consumed. The was certainly the case at one time. Perhaps that has changed?

[Flyboy]

55 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Don't need one 4.6kw of solar does what I need 

In that case why do you need the Whispergen in the first place ? 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

In that case why do you need the Whispergen in the first place ? 

Because I bought it before I had all the solar, I bought a load of them cheap built them into kits and sold them Mike the boiler man has one of them 

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I thought they were not allowed to profit from the electricity consumed. The was certainly the case at one time. Perhaps that has changed?

No it hasn't changed (but selling electricity for recharging electric vehicles is excluded from the legislation - you can charge whatever you want for EV charging)

 

I see I have been awarded a 'Angry' smiley - don't blame me I didn't write the legislation.

 

As a 'reseller' of electricity I am kept up to date with the situation.

 

Read all about it :

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2014/03/mrp_decision.pdf

 

This letter sets out our decision that the Maximum Resale Price (MRP) provisions do not apply to the resale of electricity from charge points for use by electric vehicles (EVs). We expect this clarification to alleviate concerns that the MRP could act as a barrier to the commercial expansion of charge points. It is also consistent with the exclusion of the resale of gas for use in the propulsion of a motor vehicle by the Gas Act 1986.1 

 

Annex 1 - Copy of direction issued on 14 March 2014 
 
For ease of reference the amendments made by this direction are underlined in red. 
 
Maximum Resale Price of Gas and Electricity 
 
Under section 37 of the Gas Act 1986 and section 44 of the Electricity Act 1989, the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority (“the Authority”) may from time to time fix maximum resale prices at which gas and electricity may be resold (“maximum resale prices”).  
 
The Authority hereby makes the following direction, amending the previous direction issued by the Authority on 29 January 2002 which set the maximum resale price of gas and electricity.  
 
1. Subject to paragraph 2, a maximum resale price shall apply where gas or electricity supplied by any authorised supplier is resold by any person for domestic use, or for use in any form of accommodation (including that used for holidays). 

Exclusion  
 
2. This direction does not apply where electricity supplied by an authorised supplier is resold by any person from a charge point for use by an electric motor vehicle. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No it hasn't changed (but selling electricity for recharging electric vehicles is excluded from the legislation - you can charge whatever you want for EV charging)

I referred to electricity  on a mooring in a marina. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I referred to electricity  on a mooring in a marina. 

I am aware of that and I answered the question, but then went onto explain that EVs are specifically excluded from the price limiting legislation.

[Momac]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am aware of that and I answered the question, but then went onto explain that EVs are specifically excluded from the price limiting legislation.

I should have read your post more carefully. 

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

I can't answer that, but it is true.

You are not "a business" you are buying from the marina, at least the marina invoices me, I believe the unit charge is capped.

Businesses have to charge for services provided, one way or t'other

Yes but infrastructure is in the berthing fee. Electricity consumed has to be charged at cost.

[Oddjob]

8 hours ago, peterboat said:

Its just going to cost you a lot more to cruise, or you will cut down your cruising, me I will continue cruising with solar as I did last year, I also get a 25% rebate on my license I have no method of charging my drive batteries other than solar [its a 72volt system] the other electric boaters I know are all solar as well for battery charging

So what do you think your replacement battery & solar panel cost will be when due to none perfromance? Also I would hate to have to depend on sun power alone to move, it might be winter now but I can still move about rain or shine. The only thing I can see coming other then tax on fuel for diesel power would be partical seperators/cat convertors being mandated. Maybe electric for new builds at some point in the future if Greta gets her way lol.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Oddjob said:

So what do you think your replacement battery & solar panel cost will be when due to none perfromance? Also I would hate to have to depend on sun power alone to move, it might be winter now but I can still move about rain or shine. The only thing I can see coming other then tax on fuel for diesel power would be partical seperators/cat convertors being mandated. Maybe electric for new builds at some point in the future if Greta gets her way lol.

It doesn't matter to me if I can't move due to poor weather,  I do this for fun not to get somewhere in a hurry. The batteries are LifePo4s and will last my lifetime, so will the solar panels. The engines in our boats don't work hard enough to power up emissions equipment its one of the problems, we would have to have smaller turbocharged diesels running say 3/4 to 1 gearbox ratios to get the temp up to 800 degrees plus at the cat/DPF ad blue would be needed as well. Cruising would be a noisy 2000 rpm or so for it all to work! It's not a pleasant thought is it? Plus it would really cost a lot of money 

Edited March 7, 2020 by peterboat

[Richard10002]

5 hours ago, peterboat said:

Don't need one 4.6kw of solar does what I need 

There are very few boaters with 4.6kw of solar, and many will not have the kind of money that you have to be able to fit it.

[peterboat]

£80 per 300watt solar panel not expensive Richard, room is more the issue on narrow boats 

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, MartynG said:

I thought they were not allowed to profit from the electricity consumed. The was certainly the case at one time. Perhaps that has changed?

It could be on a separate metre to the marina, of course, it costs 15p per unit.

I think I pay 2p per unit for admin/infratructure of the supply. There is a £50 deposit as well ...... money in Marina coffers, not mine.

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It could be on a separate metre to the marina, of course, it costs 15p per unit.

I think I pay 2p per unit for admin/infratructure of the supply. There is a £50 deposit as well ...... money in Marina coffers, not mine.

 

It cost us £1000's to put in the electricity supply and bollards, how do you think we could ever recoup that by only charging what we are charged.

The law allows for us to charge a 'reasonable' fee to contribute to the cost of the investment - our charge is £35 per annum.

 

My 'business' electricity costs 15p per unit and that is what we recharge out.

 

My electricity in the marina (where we moor) is 18.5p per unit and we have to buy a top-up card at a one off cost of £20. I assume the 18.5p contains an element of 'service charge' but I'm not worried about it. Electricity costs are a small fraction of boating costs.

[LadyG]

Alan,

I wasn't complaining, just trying to answer OP.

 I have even been known to buy stuff from chandlery when I could have saved a few quid buying online!

The chandlery doubles as the office and opens six days a week.

I gave you a greenie to help reduce stress caused by angry emoticom

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[GUMPY]

10 hours ago, peterboat said:

The engines in our boats don't work hard enough to power up emissions equipment its one of the problems, we would have to have smaller turbocharged diesels running say 3/4 to 1 gearbox ratios to get the temp up to 800 degrees plus at the cat/DPF ad blue would be needed as well. Cruising would be a noisy 2000 rpm or so for it all to work! It's not a pleasant thought is it?

800 deg? I assume you are talking Fahrenheit as my car starts regen at 450C and never gets above 650C and I do have an on dash monitor to tell me what the DPF is doing.

Besides which you are talking about local pollutants which can be mitigated very well by having a wet exhaust......

CO2 however would need addressing.

 

[Momac]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It cost us £1000's to put in the electricity supply and bollards, how do you think we could ever recoup that by only charging what we are charged.

The law allows for us to charge a 'reasonable' fee to contribute to the cost of the investment - our charge is £35 per annum.

 

My 'business' electricity costs 15p per unit and that is what we recharge out.

 

My electricity in the marina (where we moor) is 18.5p per unit and we have to buy a top-up card at a one off cost of £20. I assume the 18.5p contains an element of 'service charge' but I'm not worried about it. Electricity costs are a small fraction of boating costs.

I am sure you may recover your outlay on infrastructure  (eg  shore power infrastructure  , external lighting, water , toilet and office facilities , roads, ground-keeping)  as part of rent for ground or whatever you are supplying , as you are doing.

But what you cant legally do is add profit  to the unit charge for the energy consumed. You seem to be obeying the law.

 

Farndon marina increased the charges last year with the explanation being they had obtained the best available tariff but unfortunately  it  was increased from previously . The rate became more than I pay at home  . So the idea that businesses get a reduced rate for electricity  is not necessarily true. 

I think your assumption that the charges made by your marina include an infrastructure charge may be incorrect . If not they are not obeying the rules . It may be small amount of money but it has to be legal.

 

I am presently paying 16.94p per unit plus 5% vat at the marina.

Farndon  marina is  changing to  a new  pre-pay system -  we shall see if that involves a further  increase in charges .

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Farndon  marina is  changing to  a new  pre-pay system -  we shall see if that involves a further  increase in charges .

So many variations.

 

BWML Newark marina - we purchased a 'paper' credit card of a certain value (£5 or £10) this was put into the meter and the value 'dumped' to the meter and the 'card' disposed of.

 

BWML Hull marina - you go into the office and ask them to credit your bollard with £x amount, they programme the computer and it loads that value to your bollard.

 

Y-Felinheli marina - you buy a 'plastic credit card' (at a cost of £20) that is registered to an individual bollard, you take the card into the office and they 'charge' the card up with whatever value you want. You then load the card into the bollard and it 'dumps' it onto the bollard. The card can only be used on that specific bollard.

[Momac]

If only every marina (and campsite and EV charging point )  had the same payment system and you could shop for the best tariff wouldn't that be good ?

 

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

800 deg? I assume you are talking Fahrenheit as my car starts regen at 450C and never gets above 650C and I do have an on dash monitor to tell me what the DPF is doing.

Besides which you are talking about local pollutants which can be mitigated very well by having a wet exhaust......

CO2 however would need addressing.

 

Some DPFs are a meter away from the cat so exhaust gas is measured at the cat, it cools as it travels. A water exhaust just pollutes the water so is no better than than a dry exhaust is it?

Forget to say plenty of cars have caught fire under regents often the DPF hits 1200 degrees car stops and interior goes up in flames!

Edited March 8, 2020 by peterboat

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Some DPFs are a meter away from the cat so exhaust gas is measured at the cat, it cools as it travels

When I got my 1st company car with  cat, both the 'book', and the dealer made sure that I was aware of NEVER parking on long grass, as the heat would cause the grass to burn and the car would be cremated.

[peterboat]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When I got my 1st company car with  cat, both the 'book', and the dealer made sure that I was aware of NEVER parking on long grass, as the heat would cause the grass to burn and the car would be cremated.

We had a diesel XJ6 arrive at our door it had ruptured its intercooler and had been trying to regenerate, the DPF must have been full of diesel, whilst the owner was booking it in it went up in a big way! We put it out with all our extinguishers and 2 car wash hoses! The car needed a new interior plus DPF and intercooler all bought from a written off car, the jag breakers told us it wasn't an uncommon problem