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Another Red Diesel Threat


Tim Lewis

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9 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Since this seems to have become the de facto renewable energy thread:

 

Grauniad linky (because that's where I found the news)

 

It's only a reversal of something that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but nevertheless ...

It's Boris getting things done as he said he would.

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Getting rid of all red makes sense in one way, marina's don't need to replace tanks etc as traces of red don't matter, boats going overseas don't have a problem because colour no longer indicates tax. You just allow certain qualified users (farmers, builders etc) to reclaim some or all of the tax.

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22 minutes ago, Detling said:

Getting rid of all red makes sense in one way, marina's don't need to replace tanks etc as traces of red don't matter, boats going overseas don't have a problem because colour no longer indicates tax. You just allow certain qualified users (farmers, builders etc) to reclaim some or all of the tax.

 

I'm inclined to agree this is the way it will go. Save all the mucking about policing the illegal use of red and pass on all the administrative burden to the legitimate user. 

 

Just like they did with VAT.

 

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6 minutes ago, Detling said:

In addition to having to pay more it would seem we are going to get a doubling of the bio fuel content to 10% so increasing the long term storage problem and diesel bug.

I read that it was going up for petrol which is a problem for older cars it eats bits apparently?

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When petrol went lead free it was (still is?) possible to buy an additive for use in old cars that need the lead.

 

I can see a business opportunity selling red dye to the working boat crowd (and others) to maintain historic accuracy and nostalgia.

 

..................Dave

14 minutes ago, Detling said:

In addition to having to pay more it would seem we are going to get a doubling of the bio fuel content to 10% so increasing the long term storage problem and diesel bug.

I think it already is, and it might even be 13% ?????

 

................Dave

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"Quote"peterboat

Now according to the beeb its all red diesel www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51731757

 

 

I was always under the impression that, most of the tax paid on fuel is legally "Road Fuel Duty" , which is why agricultural and site vehicles are excempt from paying it, and users can usually claim back the 20% VAT, which is also aplied to all fuel. Any change in the Chancellor's budget will presumably require new legislation.

Edited by David Schweizer
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5 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I was always under the impression that, most of the tax paid on fuel is legally "Road Fuel Duty" , which is why agricultural and site vehicles are excempt from paying it, and users can usually claim back the 20% VAT, which is also aplied to all fuel. Any change in the Chancellor's budget will presumably require new legislation.

No, Boris will just say that's the way it is. Why worry about laws

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13 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

"Quote"peterboat

I was always under the impression that, most of the tax paid on fuel is legally "Road Fuel Duty" , which is why agricultural and site vehicles are excempt from paying it, and users can usually claim back the 20% VAT, which is also aplied to all fuel. Any change in the Chancellor's budget will presumably require new legislation.

I think if the Gov wanted to abolish legislation they would need new legislation, however adjusting tax rates on tax/duty/vat is within the Gov's remit, subject to approval of the change by parliament. And parliament approval is more of a rubber stamp so the Gov can make changes to tax/duty rates with immediate effect - perhaps having to pay back the tax/duty if the budget isn't approved by parliament. It's a complex area though.

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20 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

"Quote"peterboat

Now according to the beeb its all red diesel www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51731757

 

 

I was always under the impression that, most of the tax paid on fuel is legally "Road Fuel Duty" , which is why agricultural and site vehicles are excempt from paying it, and users can usually claim back the 20% VAT, which is also aplied to all fuel. Any change in the Chancellor's budget will presumably require new legislation.

That has not been the case for many years.  There has been no hypothecation of fuel duty since then.  All duty goes into a common pot to pay for roads, hospitals, schools defence et al.

 

However, to maintain a level playing field, if red is completely scrapped there will need to be adjustments in some areas.

 

For example, railway locomotives use red but then pay a charge per km to use the rail network.  If they are to use white in future, then either the charge per km will have to be scrapped or a similar charge per km introduced for road vehicles.  As the latter would be political suicide, the former must be adopted or the relative cost of rail and road for both passengers and freight will be distorted even further in favour of road.

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2 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

If all you could buy was white and farmers and plant users had to claim the tax back, what would stop them filling there cars and all there mates cars from their storage tanks?

Absolutely nothing.

 

What makes you think anyone will be able to claim any of it back?

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12 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

If all you could buy was white and farmers and plant users had to claim the tax back, what would stop them filling there cars and all there mates cars from their storage tanks?

Presumably they would need to keep detailed records of how the fuel is used, and these would be subject to audit and random checks. 

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