Jump to content

Another Red Diesel Threat


Tim Lewis

Featured Posts

3 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

There is an article in today’s Times suggesting that the The budget will announce a ban on all use of red diesel except in agriculture!

That'll put the price of a house / factory up.

The construction industry uses more red diesel than Agriculture (I read somewhere) in everything from excavators to telehandlers, to generators to water pumps.

They are not going to look favourably if that comes to pass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

That'll put the price of a house / factory up.

The construction industry uses more red diesel than Agriculture (I read somewhere) in everything from excavators to telehandlers, to generators to water pumps.

They are not going to look favourably if that comes to pass.

And as for building roads and HS2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who uses plant or generators is going to be mighty peeved.....we used to use 10,000 litres alone on the festival site my company ran for the plant & gennys...that’s a big extra cost to run on white.....policing it would be interesting too...all the kit will have traces of red for years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, frangar said:

Anyone who uses plant or generators is going to be mighty peeved.....we used to use 10,000 litres alone on the festival site my company ran for the plant & gennys...that’s a big extra cost to run on white.....policing it would be interesting too...all the kit will have traces of red for years

The chancellor is expected to argue that making industries such as haulage and construction pay full duties on fuel for cranes, generators and other diesel-powered equipment will act as an incentive to find new, cleaner alternatives"

1 hour ago, Tim Lewis said:

There is an article in today’s Times suggesting that the The budget will announce a ban on all use of red diesel except in agriculture!

Article:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-budget-chancellor-to-cut-red-diesel-subsidy-s68t3jvjc

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

The chancellor is expected to argue that making industries such as haulage and construction pay full duties on fuel for cranes, generators and other diesel-powered equipment will act as an incentive to find new, cleaner alternatives"

Article:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-budget-chancellor-to-cut-red-diesel-subsidy-s68t3jvjc

 

 

What a load of government tosh as usual!! The JCB battery mini digger is useless....and as for the bigger stuff there’s not a chance in hell that there will be anything soon...

 

A well known pop group decided one of their world tours wouldn’t use gennys....so they shipped container sized UPS units around the world....they might have had solar panels on the roof but it was the ship gennys charging them up in transit! My mate who was looking after them was not impressed...there were a lot of hidden cables at venues to make it look green. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not surprised in the slightest in fact the only surprise is its took so long! I suppose the dye added to agriculture could be changed to green then anyone caught using it would have their boat/car/lorry/genny taken away and crushed!! whilst the person would be hung drawn and quartered!

What I am saying is their are other ways of doing things that are cleaner and they will have to be used LPG whilst a carbon fuel is cleaner than diesel or petrol, it is always about electric

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

The chancellor is expected to argue that making industries such as haulage and construction pay full duties on fuel for cranes, generators and other diesel-powered equipment will act as an incentive to find new, cleaner alternatives"

Article:

 

There would be wide support for cleaner alternatives, but phasing out with warning prepares people. In a similar way to the phasing out of diesel use. The change from the use of red to white diesel isn't a climate solving problem solution. No one can really adapt so suddenly to the use of alternatives, even if they existed fully for use. I am a little suspicious of the intentions of the chancellor. It is more a revenue grab.

 

 

Edited by Higgs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

There would be wide support for cleaner alternatives, but phasing out with warning prepares people. In a similar way to the phasing out of diesel use. The change from the use of red to white diesel isn't a climate solving problem. No one can really adapt so suddenly to the use of alternatives, even if they existed fully for use. I am a little suspicious of the intentions of the chancellor. It is more a revenue grab.

 

 

I would go for it being a PR stunt, I would say that most of the public will think white is a greener alternative to red, and I bet they talk about bio-diesel at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

There would be wide support for cleaner alternatives, but phasing out with warning prepares people. In a similar way to the phasing out of diesel use. The change from the use of red to white diesel isn't a climate solving problem. No one can really adapt so suddenly to the use of alternatives, even if they existed fully for use. I am a little suspicious of the intentions of the chancellor. It is more a revenue grab.

 

 

The only way to get people to change is with incentives or hit them in the pocket this does both

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tim Lewis said:

There is an article in today’s Times suggesting that the The budget will announce a ban on all use of red diesel except in agriculture!

Why should agriculture be exempt?  The same motivation must apply to that industry as well.

 

We could finish upin a situation where horses are cheaper.  At least the emissions can be spread on the land!

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, peterboat said:

The only way to get people to change is with incentives or hit them in the pocket this does both

 

No one is suggesting that attempts to curb the use of these fuels shouldn't be attempted. I don't think the argument for making it hurt in the pocket is a good one. It isn't possible for everyone to manage. It is also the wrong incentive. In my opinion, that is likely to cause resentment and not necessarily improve attitudes towards climate thinking.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Why should agriculture be exempt?  The same motivation must apply to that industry as well.

 

We could finish upin a situation where horses are cheaper.  At least the emissions can be spread on the land!

From the article:

 

"The government will continue to allow the subsidised fuel to be used in agriculture because farmers are likely to be on the front line of a trade war with the EU if Brexit talks fail"

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

From the article:

 

"The government will continue to allow the subsidised fuel to be used in agriculture because farmers are likely to be on the front line of a trade war with the EU if Brexit talks fail"

 

They also have a housing crisis, and farmers aren't well equipped to deal with that.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, frangar said:

What a load of government tosh as usual!! The JCB battery mini digger is useless....

 

Correct. 

 

On the DIYnot forum there is a guy whose firm uses an electric mini-digger. It runs for half an hour then needs to spend the rest of the day being charged. And guess what they use to charge it.... 

 

I don't need to say, do I?!!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some years ago I recall a TV documentary about the difference between UK and German built houses, German ones were much better insulated and equipped, they also had a cellar. When UK builders were asked why they couldn't build them to the same standard the answer was they could but it would cost, further investigation revealed the cost to be the same due to Germany's more modern buildings methods. So if our building industry got their arses in gear they might be able to ride increased fuel costs. 

Edited by nb Innisfree
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

On the DIYnot forum there is a guy whose firm uses an electric mini-digger. It runs for half an hour then needs to spend the rest of the day being charged. And guess what they use to charge it.... 

 

 

 

 

Their widespread use would surely result in a steep increase in the consumption of tea. It's lucky that we don't have to import that from the EU [or do we?]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The industries effected by a change to fuel duty will simply pass the costs on.

 

 

 

Indeed. And charging fuel duty on construction industry diesel is probably intended to help replace the slowly reducing income expected from road fuel sales, as electric cars gain in popularity. 

 

Once leccy cars become mainstream, expect 'transport duty' or some such tax to be introduced on electricity sales for car charging. The current price advantage of leccy motoring will only be temporary so best not to rely on fuel cost savings when working out whether it makes financial sense to buy that new Tesla Model S. 

 

 

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Some years ago I recall a TV documentary about the difference between UK and German built houses, German ones were much better insulated and equipped, they also had a cellar. When UK builders were asked why they couldn't build them to the same standard the answer was they could but it would cost, further investigation revealed the cost to be the same due to Germany's more modern buildings methods. So if our building industry got their arses in great they might be able to ride increased fuel costs. 

One of my neighbours is a builder. He’s currently building a very large property with a cellar. The cost of digging out the cellar, diverting water courses, tanking the cellar whilst still allowing services to be admitted has cost as much as the rest of the house. He hates that cellar with a vengeance and has vowed never to build another unless it’s at the top of a hill. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

One of my neighbours is a builder. He’s currently building a very large property with a cellar. The cost of digging out the cellar, diverting water courses, tanking the cellar whilst still allowing services to be admitted has cost as much as the rest of the house. He hates that cellar with a vengeance and has vowed never to build another unless it’s at the top of a hill. 

 

Yes, Many years ago we dug out a cellar under a posh country house near Goring. By the time it was done, we concluded it might well have been cheaper to have demolished the house and built a new, bigger house in the first place. 

 

Customer was not worried about the cost however, being a city trader making £3m a year in the mid 80's.

 

:)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Indeed. And charging fuel duty on construction industry diesel is probably intended to help replace the slowly reducing income expected from road fuel sales, as electric cars gain in popularity. 

 

Once leccy cars become mainstream, expect 'transport duty' or some such tax to be introduced on electricity sales for car charging. The current price advantage of leccy motoring will only be temporary so best not to rely on fuel cost savings when working out whether it makes financial sense to buy that new Tesla Model S. 

 

 

Unlike the legislation that does not let resellers of electricity charge more than they pay to homes, caravans and boats, electric cars are specifically excluded from the legislation, meanig that (say) local councils could charge you 50p per unit (or even £1 per unit) to plug into a lamp post.

 

Maximum Resale Price of Gas and Electricity 
 
Under section 37 of the Gas Act 1986 and section 44 of the Electricity Act 1989, the Gas and Electricity Markets Authority (“the Authority”) may from time to time fix maximum resale prices at which gas and electricity may be resold (“maximum resale prices”).  
 
The Authority hereby makes the following direction, amending the previous direction issued by the Authority on 29 January 2002 which set the maximum resale price of gas and electricity.  
 
1. Subject to paragraph 2, a maximum resale price shall apply where gas or electricity supplied by any authorised supplier is resold by any person for domestic use, or for use in any form of accommodation (including that used for holidays). 


Exclusion  
 2. This direction does not apply where electricity supplied by an authorised supplier is resold by any person from a charge point for use by an electric motor vehicle. 

 

Source : Ofgem Press Release

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Indeed. And charging fuel duty on construction industry diesel is probably intended to help replace the slowly reducing income expected from road fuel sales, as electric cars gain in popularity. 

 

Once leccy cars become mainstream, expect 'transport duty' or some such tax to be introduced on electricity sales for car charging. The current price advantage of leccy motoring will only be temporary so best not to rely on fuel cost savings when working out whether it makes financial sense to buy that new Tesla Model S. 

 

 

 

My pocket isn't deep enough for that, so no worries there. I like the cars, but I'm not sure I'd be interested in a second hand one.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.