New stove installation

[Chris-B]

As I am a bit out of touch with current requirements  I need to know for a customer if a new first installation of a multi fuel heating device has to comply with the new twin walled flue regs or as the boat is over 25 years old a single walled flue is acceptable 

I am not discussing the pros and cons of either system just purely the legal requirements for installation 

cheers

chris 

[TheBiscuits]

54 minutes ago, Chris-B said:

 I need to know for a customer if a new first installation of a multi fuel heating device has to comply with the new twin walled flue regs or as the boat is over 25 years old a single walled flue is acceptable 

I am not discussing the pros and cons of either system just purely the legal requirements for installation 

Yes it does. Final answer.

 

Of course if it's a 25 year old boat, nobody will ever ask if it hadn't had a stove for the last generation or so ... especially if it's well installed with good fireproofing (not just tiles on plywood) and has a good flue, single or double-wall is irrelevant.

 

Have you looked at this:  http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

18 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Yes it does. Final answer.

Why do you say that? As far as I am aware there is a British Standard, but there is no obligation to comply with it - it is just recommended. Even the Soliftec document you link to acknowledges that.

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Why do you say that? As far as I am aware there is a British Standard, but there is no obligation to comply with it - it is just recommended. Even the Soliftec document you link to acknowledges that.

Because it's a significant material change to a boat manufactured in the EU after 2017.

 

If you don't think that's necessary to comply with, feel free for yourself, but don't advise people asking what they need to do for their customers that way.

 

You might also want to read my second part of that post more carefully ...

41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Of course if it's a 25 year old boat, nobody will ever ask if it hadn't had a stove for the last generation or so ... especially if it's well installed with good fireproofing

 

 

[matty40s]

Single flue is OK Chris, so long as the fire board and everything else is done properly. 

[MoominPapa]

7 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Because it's a significant material change to a boat manufactured in the EU after 2017.

 

According to OP, the boat is more than 25 years old.

 

MP.

 

[Chewbacka]

Out of interest which BOAT related law rather than DOMESTIC DWELLING related law requires double wall flue to be fitted??  I was not aware the rules had changed - always keen to learn new stuff.

[WotEver]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Because it's a significant material change to a boat manufactured in the EU after 2017.

But it isn’t. The boat was manufactured prior to 1995. 

[ditchcrawler]

Is it actually a British Standard for boat installations or house installations?

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

Out of interest which BOAT related law rather than DOMESTIC DWELLING related law requires double wall flue to be fitted??  I was not aware the rules had changed - always keen to learn new stuff.

I’m with you. I don’t believe there’s any such requirement. The RCD may have an effect (not checked) for more modern boats but certainly not one 25 years old. 

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is it actually a British Standard for boat installations or house installations?

That Soflitec document states:

”British Standard BS 8511:2010 Code of practice for the installation of solid fuel heating and cooking appliances in small craft <snip> The code isn't compulsory, but will always be referred to if an accident occurs”

 

My bold

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

 

That Soflitec document states:

”British Standard BS 8511:2010 Code of practice for the installation of solid fuel heating and cooking appliances in small craft <snip> The code isn't compulsory, but will always be referred to if an accident occurs”

 

My bold

Ta

[matty40s]

51 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’m with you. I don’t believe there’s any such requirement. The RCD may have an effect (not checked) for more modern boats but certainly not one 25 years old. 

That Soflitec document states:

”British Standard BS 8511:2010 Code of practice for the installation of solid fuel heating and cooking appliances in small craft <snip> The code isn't compulsory, but will always be referred to if an accident occurs”

 

My bold

The only time a properly fitted stove and flue might be advised to have a double skin fitted is if it is fitted next to an access doorway and might be used to steady an incoming or exiting person.

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The only time a properly fitted stove and flue might be advised to have a double skin fitted is if it is fitted next to an access doorway and might be used to steady an incoming or exiting person.

That makes sense

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I’m with you. I don’t believe there’s any such requirement. The RCD may have an effect (not checked) for more modern boats but certainly not one 25 years old. 

That Soflitec document states:

”British Standard BS 8511:2010 Code of practice for the installation of solid fuel heating and cooking appliances in small craft <snip> The code isn't compulsory, but will always be referred to if an accident occurs”

 

My bold

So just one way of achieving a safe installation and in no way compulsory.

[Chris-B]

Thanks to all who answered 

I agree that if located by an access the twin wall makes sense

but this one is more of a “ cost effective solution”  but wanting to keep within the framework of any current codes of practice etc 

will pass the findings over to the owner

cheers

c 

 

[blackrose]

19 hours ago, matty40s said:

The only time a properly fitted stove and flue might be advised to have a double skin fitted is if it is fitted next to an access doorway and might be used to steady an incoming or exiting person.

In other words lots of narrowboats with badly located stoves in the corner on one side of the bow doors. Bad on two counts: anyone slipping or tripping on the steps down into the boat may naturally grab for the hot flue and secondly it's a bad location in terms of an even distribution of heat throughout the boat.

[doratheexplorer]

39 minutes ago, blackrose said:

In other words lots of narrowboats with badly located stoves in the corner on one side of the bow doors. Bad on two counts: anyone slipping or tripping on the steps down into the boat may naturally grab for the hot flue and secondly it's a bad location in terms of an even distribution of heat throughout the boat.

I've always found it a headscratcher why so many boats has this unhelpful layout.  People still seem to buy them I suppose. Is it easier for the builder to build them that way?

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

In other words lots of narrowboats with badly located stoves in the corner on one side of the bow doors. Bad on two counts: anyone slipping or tripping on the steps down into the boat may naturally grab for the hot flue and secondly it's a bad location in terms of an even distribution of heat throughout the boat.

And probably the most common layout, our last boat was like that but it still didn't overcome the force 8 gale that use to come though the two big holes in the front door.

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've always found it a headscratcher why so many boats has this unhelpful layout.  People still seem to buy them I suppose. Is it easier for the builder to build them that way?

I suspect it’s partly to counter the vents in the bow doors and partly because it makes for an easier internal layout. Neither of which are sufficiently good reasons of course. 

[MtB]

On 24/02/2020 at 23:05, Chris-B said:

I am not discussing the pros and cons of either system just purely the legal requirements for installation

 

I note that no-one has managed to cite any regulation making twin wall flues mandatory on a boat.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I note that no-one has managed to cite any regulation making twin wall flues mandatory on a boat.

 

 

Isnt that just the same as there being no mandatory regulations covering an actual stove installation on a boat?

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Isnt that just the same as there being no mandatory regulations covering an actual stove installation on a boat?

but they did quote the British Standard that you should be working to. IMO this would put an installer in a bad place if something went wrong and he hadn't worked to that standard 

[Captain Fizz]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

but they did quote the British Standard that you should be working to. IMO this would put an installer in a bad place if something went wrong and he hadn't worked to that standard 

My thoughts exactly, and we all know the lengths that insurance companies will go to to wriggle out of a settlement!

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said:

My thoughts exactly, and we all know the lengths that insurance companies will go to to wriggle out of a settlement!

I was thinking more of a Manslaughter charge if a death was involved