Building a back cabin

[starman]

I’m about to start a back cabin build in my refurb project. It’s a trad with engine room but has never had a bc so I’ve got a blank canvas of approx 9ft long which should I think allow a 4ft bed.   
I’ve got a set of plans of a Yarwoods cabin, various photos, a moderate competence in woodworking and an Epping that needs to be fitted. 
So where do I go from here ?. Setting things out accurately seems crucial. Any top building tips most welcome. 

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, starman said:

I’m about to start a back cabin build in my refurb project. It’s a trad with engine room but has never had a bc so I’ve got a blank canvas of approx 9ft long which should I think allow a 4ft bed.   
I’ve got a set of plans of a Yarwoods cabin, various photos, a moderate competence in woodworking and an Epping that needs to be fitted. 
So where do I go from here ?. Setting things out accurately seems crucial. Any top building tips most welcome. 

I've never built one but have slept in one for 10 years. I think first look at as many back cabins as you can, especially some more original ones in historic boats. Some people say a cabin should be "sculpted" rather than built.  Decide what sort of cabin you want. Some cabins in modern boats look very pristine, almost like a fitted kitchen, whilst older ones have a very different rough and homely but still "solid" feel to them.  Are you going to live in it or do you want more of a real old replica? It would be nice if our bed was just a little wider as its a bit tight for two people and a deerhound, but with the Epping and the drop down table there's not really much space for variations. 

 

and, there is often a bit of wasted space/potential storage below the floor, think about getting access to that (for storage and maintenance)

 

.................Dave

[Mike Tee]

Not really a lot of variation if you want a fire, drop-down table / storage, and a bed. The fire can only go in one place, leaving the main decision - how wide a bed and how wide the table. My personal preference would be bigger bed and narrower table area, but if you want it to look like a replica of an old boat, you are stuck with the plans as you have them.

But.......... make sure the door into the e/r (if you are having one), opens into the e/r and not into the bedroom - it always amazes me that a well-known builder (naming no names!) would build the door opening into the bedroom, so when the bed is down there is no easy access into the e/r. Not ideal with a stove near the only other exit.

[David Mack]

Graham Booth describes fitting out his back cabin in "The Narrowboat Builders Book", although he acknowledges his is not a faithful replica, being constructed of plywood rather than t&g planking, and with a recess under the side bed to accommodate a finrad.

 

The standard layout is fine if you are fitting an Epping range, but many of the alternatives are a bit bigger and really need a bit more room. But the best use of any extra length is undoubtedly a wider cross bed, and it won't change the general look and feel of the cabin seen from the back. 

 

The side bed is usually too short for an adult, but you may be able to extend it under the counter deck to give more foot room.

 

How about a stable door into the engine room? Upper half opens into the engine room for easy escape from the bed, lower half opens into the back cabin to avoid conflict with the gearbox. Big Woolwich Buckden has a bifold door with unequal leaves opening into the engine room to avoid the gearbox and gearbox controls. The only arrangement that would fit apparently.

 

[David Schweizer]

One of the main problems when fitting out is accomodating the internal contours of the hull, plus the fact that spirit levels are of no use, unless the boat is on a level hard standing. Two things which I found very useful was a large builder's square, which enables verticals to be constructed from a flat base, plus a plentifull supply of large sheets of corrugated cardboard, from which bulkhead and other templates can be made, before attacking expensive timber with a saw.

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Graham Booth describes fitting out his back cabin in "The Narrowboat Builders Book", although he acknowledges his is not a faithful replica, being constructed of plywood rather than t&g planking, and with a recess under the side bed to accommodate a finrad.

 

The standard layout is fine if you are fitting an Epping range, but many of the alternatives are a bit bigger and really need a bit more room. But the best use of any extra length is undoubtedly a wider cross bed, and it won't change the general look and feel of the cabin seen from the back. 

 

The side bed is usually too short for an adult, but you may be able to extend it under the counter deck to give more foot room.

 

How about a stable door into the engine room? Upper half opens into the engine room for easy escape from the bed, lower half opens into the back cabin to avoid conflict with the gearbox. Big Woolwich Buckden has a bifold door with unequal leaves opening into the engine room to avoid the gearbox and gearbox controls. The only arrangement that would fit apparently.

 

A bifold door works very well, though I don't think we have ever closed it, its rather nice to go to sleep looking at an engine and all the little red LEDs on the electrical doings.

 

................Dave

[roland elsdon]

Yarwoods back cabins on town class boats were not a thing of beauty. I wouldnt replicate one. They were made of what looked like compressed cardboard dripped and were cold.

Decoration and function beat top notch cabinet making in my opinion, the were never stately homes.

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

A bifold door works very well, though I don't think we have ever closed it, its rather nice to go to sleep looking at an engine and all the little red LEDs on the electrical doings.

 

................Dave

Ours is normally open as well even if we have guests on the rest of the boat

[BEngo]

Sort out the wiring first.  Remember heat protection if you are wiring near the stove.  Then put  the stove in.  It is the biggest/heaviest item and defines the remaining space on the left.  Look carefully at the way the bed flap is hinged.  The hinges are off the bed shelf, not the bed hole door frame.  This is important as doing it wrong leaves no groove for the seat board.  

 The bed shelf needs to be exactly the same height as the side bed- it is easy to be the thickness of a sheet of ply out and that is uncomfortable.

Sort the engine controls after  the stove and keep them out of the way of the fixed bits.  Think about access for removal of the prop shaft, especially if it has universal joints and/or a centre bearing that will only fail if you cannot get the shaft out.

A good large square can be made by cutting the corner off a new sheet of ply, if you don't already have a roofers square.

 David's idea of corrugated card for templates is a good one.  I used a vertical batten and took measured offsets every 4 inches and at critical points, then marked them off onto a sheet of ply.

 

We have a bifold  engine 'ole door and it works well.

 

N

[hughc]

Paint the bilge first. Regards, HughC.

[Ray T]

John M Hill's book "Stem to Stern" has some pictures of a back cabin which may help.

 

You have a PM.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

A standard "Grand Union" back cabin is usually shown as 8 feet 1 inch long on plans.

 

On both my "Grand Unions"this results in a bed that is as near as damn it 3 feet wide, so not really a "double" in any normal description of a bed.

With 9 feet available it should be possible  to have a 4 foot wide bed, without compromising the width of the table cupboard r the space for the Epping.

 

The ti about extending side bed into the "counter" space is a good one.  Our "Sickle" has been so treated, and allows one adult to occupy the the b3 foot wide "double" and still eave room for a second adult to sleep on the longer side bed that results. This, of course assumes the counter space is deep enough to allow this, which it certainly is in a real ex working boat, but might not be in (for example) a modern "tug".

[stagedamager]

I'd agree with the stove first then table cupboard before anything else, as that sets the angle for where the bed 'ole frame goes. 10 degrees sticks in my mind.

 

Kind regards

 

Dan 

[Capella247]

I'm redoing our back cabin at the moment.  Going to add a split door arrangement to allow diving in and out and to allow cups of tea to be passed in whilst the bed is made up.  I'm going to add a removable board to enable the double to run the length of the cabin rather than across.   Although we are all relatively short (under 6ft) the cross bed is too cramped.

[ditchcrawler]

Graham Both was horrified when he saw my BC 

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, BEngo said:

David's idea of corrugated card for templates is a good one.  I used a vertical batten and took measured offsets every 4 inches and at critical points, then marked them off onto a sheet of ply.

A ticking stick is arguably simpler.
 

Another solution is hot glue and lots of thin bits of ply/cardboard. 
 

A somewhat laborious video on the use of ticking sticks:

 

[starman]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Graham Both was horrified when he saw my BC 

Why?

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, starman said:

Why?

Not traditional enough but comfortable for us to use which is important to me.

[BWM]

One thing to consider is the depth of the table cupboard, so many back cabins are let down by awkward proportions here as an error will result in a table that is way too long and/or too low. 

 Are you going for boards or plywood for the lining?

[koukouvagia]

What insulation are you going to use?  I favour thinsulate because, as its name suggests, you don't lose precious width with bulky thermal insulation slabs.

If you need to batten the cabin, there's no reason why you shouldn't use Sikaflex.  

[dave moore]

Just an idle thought....if you decide to use planks rather than ply for the linings, bear in mind that they can shrink once placed. I grained a cabin out once then shrinkage opened up the tongue and groove joints, somewhat spoiling the finished look. We used birch ply on Resolute and I simulated a planked look afterwards.

[starman]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

One thing to consider is the depth of the table cupboard, so many back cabins are let down by awkward proportions here as an error will result in a table that is way too long and/or too low. 

 Are you going for boards or plywood for the lining?

 

1 hour ago, koukouvagia said:

What insulation are you going to use?  I favour thinsulate because, as its name suggests, you don't lose precious width with bulky thermal insulation slabs.

If you need to batten the cabin, there's no reason why you shouldn't use Sikaflex.  

The boat was previously insulated with polystyrene so the easiest route is to replace that with Celotex. It also has rather nice narrow t&g cabin sides which I hope to re-use. I may get some similar run off for the ceiling. Existing battening (timber in U-channel) will hopefully be okay too. 

(PS I’m only too well aware of your point Dave re t&g shrinkage?). 

[BWM]

12 minutes ago, starman said:

 

The boat was previously insulated with polystyrene so the easiest route is to replace that with Celotex. It also has rather nice narrow t&g cabin sides which I hope to re-use. I may get some similar run off for the ceiling. Existing battening (timber in U-channel) will hopefully be okay too. 

(PS I’m only too well aware of your point Dave re t&g shrinkage?). 

One issue you may find using narrow boards on the cabin top is the run out at the back end.

[monkeyhanger]

25 minutes ago, starman said:

 

The boat was previously insulated with polystyrene so the easiest route is to replace that with Celotex. It also has rather nice narrow t&g cabin sides which I hope to re-use. I may get some similar run off for the ceiling. Existing battening (timber in U-channel) will hopefully be okay too. 

(PS I’m only too well aware of your point Dave re t&g shrinkage?). 

Before I built my back cabin, I visited as many boats as possible with a camera, tape measure and writing/sketch pad. The more cabins you see, the more individual differences you will notice. This  is one project where time doing research will be time well spent. I don't know where you are, but you're welcome to have a look at my boat in East London if you wish.

[Tim Lewis]

There are a few pictures of the construction of Fulbournes's back cabin at the end of this photo album:

 

https://timlewis.smugmug.com/Other/Early-Fulbourne/

 

Built by Rex Wain in the mid 1980's

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tim Lewis