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dor

Banning House coal and wet wood

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14 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Mike the biggest offshore wind farm is going in up here in Yorkshire to join the previous biggest in the world in Lincolnshire, then plans are in place to build an even bigger one at dogger bank! They are planning for the excess power to be used for hydrogen production the planned output is huge as I said they aren't concerned the future is green electric and no ICE vehicles 

Apparantly the cost of maintainingg wind farm windmills is massive especially the offshore ones. They break down a lot with gearbox trouble, the gearing up from slowly rotating propellers to the high speed required by the their alternators is the problem, but I expect they'll get around that one day.

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Is it? 

 

The line through here to the west country is electrified as far west as Newbury, then the trains switch over to diesel for the journey to Penzance and back.

 

Or do they have batteries on board? THis seems unlikely. 

 

 

Oh, I thought they'd got a lot further than that. Hybrids, Diesel or overhead electric pick up I think. Class 800 or 802 not certain. Since steam were taken off I've not had a great deal of interest since.

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3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Oh, I thought they'd got a lot further than that. Hybrids, Diesel or overhead electric pick up I think. Class 800 or 802 not certain. Since steam were taken off I've not had a great deal of interest since.

 

Steam still runs...

 

 

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Wind and solar are dead ends if we are going to run the countries energy requirements from green energy, neither can be relied on 24 / 7 /365.

Tidal / water power makes more sense at least it is reliable whether it is enough on its own to supply the UK's needs is another matter.

As for electric cars no way unless massive improvements in battery technology appears in the near future and of course how long would it take to put in the recharging infrastructure?  

Hydrogen powered vehicles make sense although again it requires the infrastructure, but converting existing fuel stations would be easier and cheaper than running cables for electric cars.

 

Ken

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Steam still runs...

 

 

Indeed it does and doesn't keep conking out with damp electronics.  Just checked they call the class 800 and 802 trains {Bi-Mode}. Diesel electric when on non electrified lines and overhead pick up on electrified line, both forms of power of course use the same electric traction motors.

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8 minutes ago, KenK said:

Hydrogen powered vehicles make sense although again it requires the infrastructure, but converting existing fuel stations would be easier and cheaper than running cables for electric cars.

The Government plan is to use the gas main system to supply Hydrogen, it will be fed into the 'grid' in Manchester / Liverpool with Teeside as the hydrogen generation hub.

 

 

 

Screenshot (78).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Steam still runs...

 

 

But not with house coal or wet wood...

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Never did, did it?

 

 

Of course not. I was attempting a little levity...

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I doubt any steam loco could levitate....

 

 

 

Not on house coal and wet wood, that’s for sure...

 

I had an aunt who used to wash her coal before putting it in the coal scuttle. 

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Not on house coal and wet wood, that’s for sure...

 

I had an aunt who used to wash her coal before putting it in the coal scuttle. 

An old pal of mine who joined the army had to paint the coal in the coal bunkers at his barracks with white wash as a punishment, a common one. I think it was to see if anyone nicked some to take home when going on leave, especially if black holes appeared in the white mounds during the summer.

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33 minutes ago, KenK said:

As for electric cars no way unless massive improvements in battery technology appears in the near future and of course how long would it take to put in the recharging infrastructure?  

 

As has been said in a few topics recently - that is wrong.

Battery technology is ok - see Tesla. 300 mile range on one charge. Current batteries are ok and getting better by the year.

Most owners would charge at home overnight - 70% of the population could do this - the other 30% who live in apartments etc couldnt. For long trips use superchargers on trunk roads etc. The problem is not recharging infrastructure - but electricity generation. Falkirk are currently installing 100 charging points that will be FREE to us. Lots of other Scotish towns are doing the same thing.

 

A big change is coming. With the BIK tax break on EVs with a range over 250 miles (IIRC) there are lots of peeps who will get EV company cars. For peeps who dont understand BIK, if you get a company car, you get taxed on the value of that car. So if you are a higher rate tax payer ie 40%, then you can have a car without paying ANY tax (post this April) so that is worth £20K benefit on a Model 3 Tesla. In effect you can get a £50K Tesla for the same price as a £30K Merc/BMW/Audi. Watch the uptake in EVs increase massively this April.

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Growing up in a 3 bed terraced house in SE London in the 1960s, our heating was a gas fire in the posher front room, but mainly a fireplace in the backroom where we burned coke. I remember my father, an ex scout master who knew a thing or two about fires, chopping up wood with an ave to make kindling, not sure where he got the wood from. I do wonder what a modern environmentalist would make of that heating arrangement. No idea where the coal merchant would have got the coke from, but maybe down by train/ship/canal?? from somewhere up north?? I remember a lot of railway stations in the southeast having piles of fuel in a yard next to them, many of which later got converted into car parks.

It was generally my job to go out in whatever weather the winter could throw at us to shovel coke from our old coalshed (built in 1947 by my mother's father) into the scuttle. So I just wrapped up well. Fortunately washing it first was not required; I think coke was a lot more porous than coal and washing it would have been a bad move.

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I just typed "I remember my father, an ex scout master who knew a thing or two about fires, chopping up wood with an ave to make kindling, not sure where he got the wood from."

That's why he used an axe not an "ave"!

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1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

When you say the planned output is”huge”..... what is the planned output?

Google it Richard 

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5 minutes ago, Peter X said:

Growing up in a 3 bed terraced house in SE London in the 1960s, our heating was a gas fire in the posher front room, but mainly a fireplace in the backroom where we burned coke. I remember my father, an ex scout master who knew a thing or two about fires, chopping up wood with an ave to make kindling, not sure where he got the wood from. I do wonder what a modern environmentalist would make of that heating arrangement. No idea where the coal merchant would have got the coke from, but maybe down by train/ship/canal?? from somewhere up north?? I remember a lot of railway stations in the southeast having piles of fuel in a yard next to them, many of which later got converted into car parks.

It was generally my job to go out in whatever weather the winter could throw at us to shovel coke from our old coalshed (built in 1947 by my mother's father) into the scuttle. So I just wrapped up well. Fortunately washing it first was not required; I think coke was a lot more porous than coal and washing it would have been a bad move.

Coke was in the main the bi product of coal fired town gas works, plenty of it then. Our neighbour worked at Beckton gas works, he had an old Standard Vanguard van with a back door window knocked out, through which he'd shovel in coke right up to the top and bring it home to burn on their Parkray. The Victorian London District and Metropolitan underground lines used coke to fire the steam loco's for a while, to cut down smoke in the tunnels, they also used condensers to cut down steam emissions too.

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52 minutes ago, KenK said:

Wind and solar are dead ends if we are going to run the countries energy requirements from green energy, neither can be relied on 24 / 7 /365.

Tidal / water power makes more sense at least it is reliable whether it is enough on its own to supply the UK's needs is another matter.

As for electric cars no way unless massive improvements in battery technology appears in the near future and of course how long would it take to put in the recharging infrastructure?  

Hydrogen powered vehicles make sense although again it requires the infrastructure, but converting existing fuel stations would be easier and cheaper than running cables for electric cars.

 

Ken

You do make me laugh hydrogen for cars is already dead in the water over 30% of electric is already made by wind turbines, and hydrogen is very dangerous it has the ability to destroy the metals used to store and supply it! The new Tesla's will have 400 mile range with batteries warranties for a million miles! For 99% of the population it's enough 

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Just a heads up on "wind power and turbines"..

 

We all know that they consume a shed load of grid power just  to turn the rotor bringing the blades up to speed from stop.

in some cases and in some conditions  they consume more power per day than they generate.

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1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Apparantly the cost of maintainingg wind farm windmills is massive especially the offshore ones. They break down a lot with gearbox trouble, the gearing up from slowly rotating propellers to the high speed required by the their alternators is the problem, but I expect they'll get around that one day.

I don't know if it's massive but bearing failure is  an issue 20 plus bearings in the gearbox and a planned life of 20 years is going some! The next generation of wind turbines at 15 MW  are huge but then again don't all power stations break down?

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7 minutes ago, Trento said:

Just a heads up on "wind power and turbines"..

 

We all know that they consume a shed load of grid power just  to turn the rotor bringing the blades up to speed from stop.

in some cases and in some conditions  they consume more power per day than they generate.

Payback in a very short time says different,  and given that more than likely the electric 30 plus % of the population will be using now is from turbines I can't see it changing anytime soon 

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29 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Coke was in the main the bi product of coal fired town gas works, plenty of it then. Our neighbour worked at Beckton gas works, he had an old Standard Vanguard van with a back door window knocked out, through which he'd shovel in coke right up to the top and bring it home to burn on their Parkray. The Victorian London District and Metropolitan underground lines used coke to fire the steam loco's for a while, to cut down smoke in the tunnels, they also used condensers to cut down steam emissions too.

Sounds like fun, I don't know much about vehicles but I suppose he had to be careful driving it and when opening the doors at home! Maybe he had a convenient chute down into a coal cellar, rather than getting buried under an avalanche of coke or having to open them a smidge with a scuttle in the right place. Our coal shed, which held well over a ton, featured two doorways with a series of boards across each supported on two blocks so I just had to slide the coal shovel in at ground level to extract the coke. The annual delivery (I think the vehicle was horse drawn) was interesting; I counted the 1 cwt sacks as some big grimy bloke staggered through the house and poured the contents through a temporary gap in the coalshed roof (made by me and my dad rearranging some of the asbestos sheeting!) - happy days. My mum got the job of cleaning all the dust in the hallway up afterwards; maybe she got my older sister to help her!

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39 minutes ago, Peter X said:

Sounds like fun, I don't know much about vehicles but I suppose he had to be careful driving it and when opening the doors at home! Maybe he had a convenient chute down into a coal cellar, rather than getting buried under an avalanche of coke or having to open them a smidge with a scuttle in the right place. Our coal shed, which held well over a ton, featured two doorways with a series of boards across each supported on two blocks so I just had to slide the coal shovel in at ground level to extract the coke. The annual delivery (I think the vehicle was horse drawn) was interesting; I counted the 1 cwt sacks as some big grimy bloke staggered through the house and poured the contents through a temporary gap in the coalshed roof (made by me and my dad rearranging some of the asbestos sheeting!) - happy days. My mum got the job of cleaning all the dust in the hallway up afterwards; maybe she got my older sister to help her!

Our houses were about 3' lower than the road and pavements. The neighbour with the van built a raised concrete plynth in his front gaden on which he'd reverse the van and as you say stand to the side and whack the back door handle open with a long stick and out would pour the coke onto the path by the front door and he'd then shovel it around the back. Gasworks were quite a lucrative business, apart from producing town gas from the top of the retort by burning coal, many other bi-products were tapped off  from the retort, like ammonia which was sold to aluminium makers, creosote amongst other things which I can't remember, down to coke, and finally clinker which was sold for land drainage and breeze blocks and then tar for of course road surfacing and repair. They probably made more money from all the bi-products than they did from the sale of gas. Amazing all the goodness there is in bits of coal...   Got a shilling for the gas :) I remember the gas board flaring off with big flames from vertical pipes on street corners to scavenge- burn off from the systems mains the town gas when North Sea gas took over.    Oh, and Coal tar soap.

Edited by bizzard

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8 hours ago, bizzard said:

Coke was in the main the bi product of coal fired town gas works, plenty of it then. Our neighbour worked at Beckton gas works, he had an old Standard Vanguard van with a back door window knocked out, through which he'd shovel in coke right up to the top and bring it home to burn on their Parkray. The Victorian London District and Metropolitan underground lines used coke to fire the steam loco's for a while, to cut down smoke in the tunnels, they also used condensers to cut down steam emissions too.

Have you ever thought of writing your memoires "Brief Notes from the Twentieth Century" 🤪

You may need prompting BB [Before Bizzard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_20th_century

Edited by LadyG

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