Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
dor

Banning House coal and wet wood

Featured Posts

Fuels in general are being 'cleaned up' all the time. As a professional in oil heating, over the past 15 years, there have been many modifications to all oils, with the reduction of sulphur, and the bio fuel additives to 35 sec. Road fuels have also been cleaned up, and we have overcome the difficulties encountered. There has got to be many more twists and turns in our paths in the eco war.

Looking at the atmosphere surrounding many intensive mooring locations and domestic estates at this time of year, it can be argued that the year after next is too far away. If people cannot be responsible themselves, then there will never be a shortage of others to make them so.

Edited by Ex Brummie
to be inclusive of all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Best not its in general boating anyway isn't it!! Not politics. 


Ah, but you were the one who brought up the EU in the first place with your whopping great lie ...er... "probability", didn't you?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Onionman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Burning gas is much cleaner than burning coal. Gas is methane. CH4. Burn it and you get CO2 and water. Burn coal which contains very little hydrogen and lots of nitrogen, and you get buckets of CO2 and NOx. Get rid of burning coal worldwide (and fuel oils) and we are halfway there.

If you burn methane in air (which is 80% N2) you get some NOx. Exact amount depends on flame temperature, I think.

 

MP.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Bee said:

I suppose its just a 'clean air' measure. It doesn't tackle co2 at all. Virtually every house and building in the UK is heated by fossil fuel one way or other and most of us cook on gas so when and if that is ever tackled there really will be howls of rage. Heat pump shares anybody?

 

Yes I heard a caller on LBC this morning complaining to Nick Ferrari that this new law won't significantly reduce global pollution while China and India continued to burn them. He clearly misunderstood and didn't realise that the intention is to reduce local ground level pollution and improve local air quality by reducing the hazardous compounds released when wet wood and bituminous house coal are burned.

 

Of course burning any carbon based fuel will also release CO2 into the atmosphere which is a global issue but that's not the focus of the new measure.

 

Environmental science is complex and some people aren't very good a separating out different issues. A little knowledge of a subject is sometimes worse than compete ignorance when everyone thinks they're an expert.

Edited by blackrose
  • Greenie 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard a liveaboard narrowboater on The Jeremy Vine Show saying that he would no longer be able to keep his home warm and would freeze in the winter if he obeyed the law. He expanded to state that this would affect thousands of boaters who would not be able to keep their homes warm. My ears only pricked up half way through the piece but I’m fairly sure his heating was gas!!!

 

Even if it were coal, there is the option of smokeless, and if it were wood, there is the option of “dry” wood, or scavenging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Who’s ‘they’?  UK has said ‘by 2040’. 


 

2032 and maybe 2030 shortly things are changing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of "can't use my stove" whingers on the radio, utter nonsense, of course they can keep and use their stoves, just can't burn wet wood or house coal. Just what is the problem, I've never burned either. On the boat I burn heat logs (compressed wood waste), small dried logs from home and a few bits of smokeless to stop it going out on me. 

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Lots of "can't use my stove" whingers on the radio, utter nonsense, of course they can keep and use their stoves, just can't burn wet wood or house coal. Just what is the problem, I've never burned either. On the boat I burn heat logs (compressed wood waste), small dried logs from home and a few bits of smokeless to stop it going out on me. 

 

The whingers are basically people who don't give a sh*t about anyone else, they want to be able to burn anything they can get their hands on dirt cheap -- house coal, wet wood, camel dung, guano -- regardless of how much pollution/smoke/stink it makes or whether it chokes the people in the next boat/house. Any stove in a boat or house is perfectly capable of burning widely available and cheap fuels which don't suffocate the neighbours, which most responsible boaters have been doing anyway for years.

 

All this is doing is making it illegal to to choke others instead of relying on people's conscience -- to take from another thread, it's just like the difference between saying "Please don't dump your chopped-up sh*t in the canal/river, it's disgusting" which people with a thick enough skin can ignore, and making doing so illegal and punishable by a fine which they can't.

  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

wrong tony its 2035 but maybe 2032 look at this link

Not wrong. I looked at your link and it reads (in part)

The accelerated plan to bring the ban from 2040 to 2035, proposed last week...

 

So it’s a proposed ‘plan’ to move it forward again to 2035 from where it currently is, namely 2040. And maybe, if that happens, they may consider moving it again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Not wrong. I looked at your link and it reads (in part)

The accelerated plan to bring the ban from 2040 to 2035, proposed last week...

 

So it’s a proposed ‘plan’ to move it forward again to 2035 from where it currently is, namely 2040. And maybe, if that happens, they may consider moving it again. 

Yup 2030 is being talked about and some car makers might have finished making ICE cars before then

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

I heard a liveaboard narrowboater on The Jeremy Vine Show saying that he would no longer be able to keep his home warm and would freeze in the winter if he obeyed the law. He expanded to state that this would affect thousands of boaters who would not be able to keep their homes warm. My ears only pricked up half way through the piece but I’m fairly sure his heating was gas!!!

 

Even if it were coal, there is the option of smokeless, and if it were wood, there is the option of “dry” wood, or scavenging.

I listened to the Beeb 6 O'clock new tonite and if you weren't paying attention you would get the gist that 'coal' and 'wood' will be banned in 2023. Nothing actually said you will still be able to burn smokeless coal. They specifically said 'coal' and not 'house coal'. Awful reporting.

No wonder some peeps are worried their narrowboat will be cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Bloody good thing, those stupid yuppie bags from the garage are con, I can't imagine anyone delivering less than 2 cube anyway.

 

Slightly off topic I remember when we couldn't give loads of timber away, now the wood goblins drive into work sites with their own saws

The log people just up the road from us will deliver ten nets without a query. They are a good company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NB owners will have to make friends with traction engine owners to get their hands on illicit supplies of the devils clagnuts

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IanD said:

The whingers are basically people who don't give a sh*t about anyone else, they want to be able to burn anything they can get their hands on dirt cheap -- house coal, wet wood, camel dung, guano -- regardless of how much pollution/smoke/stink it makes or whether it chokes the people in the next boat/house. Any stove in a boat or house is perfectly capable of burning widely available and cheap fuels which don't suffocate the neighbours, which most responsible boaters have been doing anyway for years.

 

All this is doing is making it illegal to to choke others instead of relying on people's conscience -- to take from another thread, it's just like the difference between saying "Please don't dump your chopped-up sh*t in the canal/river, it's disgusting" which people with a thick enough skin can ignore, and making doing so illegal and punishable by a fine which they can't.

Agree with your sentiment here.  However my understanding  is that this change is about the sale of “house coal” and “wet wood”, it does nothing to outlaw their use, or the burning of other unsuitable substances.  So anyone can still burn anything that they can get their hands on as far as I can see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just been reading through this thread and would comment that there are two different issues which will impact boaters. Pollution and climate change.

This legislation, ref wet wood and coal, is driven by the need to reduce pollution. It can be argued that a boat in open countryside is not really harming anyone but a boat at the end of my garden, or in a town centre, is a different matter. It won’t be long before this, and the running of engines when stationary in built up areas is made very difficult and we need to be pressing for electric hook ups on town moorings.

 

Climate change is a much more difficult issue, whether or not you believe in it. The belief is that there is a cumulative effect and eventually someone is going to notice that canal boats have relatively inefficient diesel engines. This could potentially get very difficult for those of us who rely upon a big tank of diesel, a large bottle of gas and a dozen sacks of coal on the roof!

Edited by Peter Thornton
  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

We used to ‘forage’ for coal in Broseley, Shropshire in the 80s. There was a small opencast pit near us and one drove in and onto a weighbridge, then parked up by a large pile of coal in all sizes of lump from huge to dust, filled up the boot with what one thought the car could safely carry, and drove onto the weighbridge again.

I seem to remember a price of around £20 a ton, but it was very smoky coal.

That sounds about right, In fact there are still very thin seams of coal here and there that you could scratch away at if you were desperate. I was digging a hole for a garden pond in Jackfield when I came across gritty coal, thought I had the start of a coalmine but after a couple of inches it turned to clay. Sadly it was just the site of an old coalshed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

Lots of "can't use my stove" whingers on the radio, utter nonsense, of course they can keep and use their stoves, just can't burn wet wood or house coal. Just what is the problem, I've never burned either. On the boat I burn heat logs (compressed wood waste), small dried logs from home and a few bits of smokeless to stop it going out on me. 

 

No, you're wrong.

Along with many you hear what you want to and not what was announced.

Nobody has said it will be illegal to burn Coal or Wet Wood.

It is proposed to make it illegal to sell it.

That doesn't mean you can't burn it, authorities would never be able to enforce that.

It even means they can't stop you from buying it, again they'd never be able to enforce it.

The only thing enforceable will be prohibiting the selling.  Even then there will always be exceptions when it comes to the coal if only the steam traction engine brigade, Historic Railways, The historic paddle steamer Kingswear Castle and the steam powered narrow boat known as "President".  Smokeless fuels are not always suitable alternatives.

 

Knowing our luck the atmosphere we are preserving will drift away to be enjoyed by China and India, while theirs comes here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

Even then there will always be exceptions when it comes to the coal if only the steam traction engine brigade, Historic Railways, The historic paddle steamer Kingswear Castle and the steam powered narrow boat known as "President".  Smokeless fuels are not always suitable alternatives.

Shirley steam coal is different to house coal though, as it is cleaner burning.

 

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Thank you to Dr. Bob for post no 40. Having failed O level chemistry I can now see that all that stuff actually meant something. If that embarrassing little problem comes back again I will be straight round to his surgery as he knows stuff.

Edited by Bee
  • Happy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bee said:

A Thank you to Dr. Bob for post no 40. Having failed O level chemistry I can now see that all that stuff actually meant something.

 

Thanks Dr Bob from me too, for similar reasons. 

 

I got my general science O level by being strong on physics and biology. Teach suggested I do Gen Science and I was all like, but I dunno NUFFERN about chemistry, wouldn't even understand the questions as had NO chemistry lessons in my whole skool career. He said just go to the physics and bio papers, skip the chemistry one you'll be fine. He was right, I still got a 'C' skipping the chem exam completely! 

 

Always bin interested in chemistry, but never quite been able to teach myself. 

  • Happy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Peter Thornton said:

Just been reading through this thread and would comment that there are two different issues which will impact boaters. Pollution and climate change.

This legislation, ref wet wood and coal, is driven by the need to reduce pollution. It can be argued that a boat in open countryside is not really harming anyone but a boat at the end of my garden, or in a town centre, is a different matter. It won’t be long before this, and the running of engines when stationary in built up areas is made very difficult and we need to be pressing for electric hook ups on town moorings.

 

Climate change is a much more difficult issue, whether or not you believe in it. The belief is that there is a cumulative effect and eventually someone is going to notice that canal boats have relatively inefficient diesel engines. This could potentially get very difficult for those of us who rely upon a big tank of diesel, a large bottle of gas and a dozen sacks of coal on the roof!

Yes well I have lots of solar a wind turbine and electric drive, but still burn anthracite for heating and cooking in the winter, summer  time I heat water by solar and do most things using electric plus the boat has an electric motor, but for some this isnt enough, as you say more electric points and we could ude water source heating in our boats, which would cut our CO2 emissions down greatly

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, matty40s said:

No, leave it, it's the thin end of the wedge.

We were in Cork ,ROI in December and stoves are being banned completely there in a couple of years...

Could we have a link to that please?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, IanD said:

Is there a Smelly's Law similar to Godwin's Law?

 

(he'll turn any topic round to Brexit and abuse of Remoaners, Johny Foreigners and the EU within a few posts, regardless of what the subject started out as)

That's unfair.

 

Smelly's Law is :  If it wasn't raining before, it will now Tim's here.

 

As evidence, he has been in Yorkshire, Oxfordshire and Warwickshire in the past week ...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.