Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
dor

Banning House coal and wet wood

Featured Posts

16 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Same here if I am Jayne s for the weekend I light the Rayburn, bubble stove and fire up the whispergen soon has the boat toasty

And there we were thinking everything on your boat was run by solar.....

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wonder how anyone is going to police all this nonsense! The same goes for the ban on red diesel!

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose its just a 'clean air' measure. It doesn't tackle co2 at all. Virtually every house and building in the UK is heated by fossil fuel one way or other and most of us cook on gas so when and if that is ever tackled there really will be howls of rage. Heat pump shares anybody?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bee said:

I suppose its just a 'clean air' measure. It doesn't tackle co2 at all.

 

I agree. Its a first class case of 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

 

If the CO2 is not addressed, all the particulate matter from coal stoves in the world won't matter a jot. 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Bee said:

I suppose its just a 'clean air' measure. It doesn't tackle co2 at all. Virtually every house and building in the UK is heated by fossil fuel one way or other and most of us cook on gas so when and if that is ever tackled there really will be howls of rage. Heat pump shares anybody?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/17/west-midlands-canals-help-heat-hospitals-homes-plans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Bee said:

I suppose its just a 'clean air' measure. It doesn't tackle co2 at all. Virtually every house and building in the UK is heated by fossil fuel one way or other and most of us cook on gas so when and if that is ever tackled there really will be howls of rage. Heat pump shares anybody?

Burning gas is much cleaner than burning coal. Gas is methane. CH4. Burn it and you get CO2 and water. Burn coal which contains very little hydrogen and lots of nitrogen, and you get buckets of CO2 and NOx. Get rid of burning coal worldwide (and fuel oils) and we are halfway there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

For those that can read Facebook here is a case of boat smoke causing conflict https://www.facebook.com/groups/NarrowboatOwnersGroup/permalink/2586829648261974/

As described the bloke that came knocking sounds like a right pillock. However, I'd certainly feel bad about smoking out houses. I'd either change fuel upon realising or offer to move as soon as I were able.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vicafloat said:

I just wonder how anyone is going to police all this nonsense! The same goes for the ban on red diesel!

The title of the thread is misleading, this is a ban on selling certain types of fuels (not about banning solid fuel stoves), so I would have that would be easy to control.  In the first instance the fuel suppliers are not going to be supplying those types of fuel to retailers, so you will not be able to buy it.  It is not even about banning the use of the fuels, just the sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, john6767 said:

The title of the thread is misleading, this is a ban on selling certain types of fuels (not about banning solid fuel stoves), so I would have that would be easy to control.  In the first instance the fuel suppliers are not going to be supplying those types of fuel to retailers, so you will not be able to buy it.  It is not even about banning the use of the fuels, just the sale.

Good point. As it is the Vehicle Emissions Act 2002  ( Highway Code art 123) to stop car idling is rarely if ever enforced.I know having reported people for parking right on the pavement and refusing to switch off their engines...and not once have the police taken action. And yet diesels throw out PM 10s by the billion and  petrol cars benzene and other pollutants but they ant gonna ban them are they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, john6767 said:

The title of the thread is misleading, this is a ban on selling certain types of fuels (not about banning solid fuel stoves), so I would have that would be easy to control.  In the first instance the fuel suppliers are not going to be supplying those types of fuel to retailers, so you will not be able to buy it.  It is not even about banning the use of the fuels, just the sale.

I've already asked for a mod to change the title and been shot down because of a consipiracy theory about banning stoves.  Therefore confusion will continue to reign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Athy said:

This tallies with what I heard on the BBC this morning. It is the sale, not the use, of such fuels which will be prohibited. Most of the wood for our home stove comes from tree-surgery work in our garden anyway. But foraging for coal could be difficult.

 

Mind you, we have lit our stove only twice since Christmas as the winter has been quite mild, and I suspect that many other people have done similarly, so in the short term at least, if this new law comes in it will have little practical effect.

We used to ‘forage’ for coal in Broseley, Shropshire in the 80s. There was a small opencast pit near us and one drove in and onto a weighbridge, then parked up by a large pile of coal in all sizes of lump from huge to dust, filled up the boot with what one thought the car could safely carry, and drove onto the weighbridge again.

I seem to remember a price of around £20 a ton, but it was very smoky coal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've already asked for a mod to change the title and been shot down because of a consipiracy theory about banning stoves.  Therefore confusion will continue to reign.

Maybe if someone reports the post if they are bothered by it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree. Its a first class case of 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

 

If the CO2 is not addressed, all the particulate matter from coal stoves in the world won't matter a jot. 

 

 

 

It is possible to deal with more than one problem at a time.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree. Its a first class case of 'fiddling while Rome burns'.

 

If the CO2 is not addressed, all the particulate matter from coal stoves in the world won't matter a jot. 

 

 

 

I do wish peeps would not lump all fossil fuels together. Gas is much cleaner than Coal including CO2 emissions. Its all about the amount of hydrogen in the fuel.

 

Methane (natural gas) is CH4. Therefore when burnt you burn 1 molecule of methane and it needs 2 molecules of oxygen. ie

CH4 +2O2 -->  CO2 + 2H2O + heat. You get heat from the burning of carbon and heat from the burning of hydrogen.

That gives circa 3 tonnes of  CO2 for every tonne of methane burnt.

 

Now compare that to coal. Coal is essentially pure carbon. So to burn the same level of oxygen (ie to get the same heat output) you would burn two molecules of coal ie

2C +2O2 --> 2CO2 + heat

That gives circa 6tes of CO2 from 2 tes of coal.

For the same amount of heat though we have used twice the weight of fuel and emitted 6 times the amount of CO2. The key here is how much hydrogen there is in the fuel as that hydrogen burns very cleanly with oxygen to yield heat and water. Methane is very hydrogen rich. Coal is virtually no hydrogen. Petrol/diesel is more like half way between the two.

Methane is therefore OK to burn, Petrol/diesel is poor but coal is diabolical and must be banned NOW!

........but can I keep buying it for our boat stove for the next 20 years please?

Edited by Dr Bob
  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe if someone reports the post if they are bothered by it

Done.  I assumed Athy would see my post as he was also posting on this thread at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've already asked for a mod to change the title and been shot down because of a consipiracy theory about banning stoves.  Therefore confusion will continue to reign.

My apologies for the misleading thread title.

 In my defence, it was about midnight-  past my bedtime, even when I am not I’ll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I do wish peeps would not lump all fossil fuels together. Gas is much cleaner than Coal including CO2 emissions. Its all about the amount of hydrogen in the fuel.

 

Methane (natural gas) is CH4. Therefore when burnt you burn 1 molecule of methane and it needs 2 molecules of oxygen. ie

CH4 +2O2 -->  CO2 + 2H2O + heat. You get heat from the burning of carbon and heat from the burning of hydrogen.

That gives circa 3 tonnes of  CO2 for every tonne of methane burnt.

 

Now compare that to coal. Coal is essentially pure carbon. So to burn the same level of oxygen (ie to get the same heat output) you would burn two molecules of coal ie

2C +2O2 --> 2CO2 + heat

That gives circa 6tes of CO2 from 2 tes of coal.

For the same amount of heat though we have used twice the weight of fuel and emitted 6 times the amount of CO2. The key here is how much hydrogen there is in the fuel as that hydrogen burns very cleanly with oxygen to yield heat and water. Methane is very hydrogen rich. Coal is virtually no hydrogen. Petrol/diesel is more like half way between the two.

Methane is therefore OK to burn, Petrol/diesel is poor but coal is diabolical and must be banned NOW!

........but can I keep buying it for our boat stove for the next 20 years please?

Also, methane is in itself a greenhouse gas, albeit with a shorter life span in the environment.  So less methane is another benefit.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Done.  I assumed Athy would see my post as he was also posting on this thread at the time.

I had been [posting, yes, but I think that by that time I was hurtling around the house getting things ready for a trip into town. I am now, as you can tell, back, but I see that in my absence one of my colleagues has amended the title, so I hope that everyone is now happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Athy said:

I had been [posting, yes, but I think that by that time I was hurtling around the house getting things ready for a trip into town. I am now, as you can tell, back, but I see that in my absence one of my colleagues has amended the title, so I hope that everyone is now happy.

Thanks

6 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Any evidence?

Of course not.  Just more nonsense to add to the endless list of Euromyths.  Things don't have to be true you know?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6481969.stm

  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, markeymark said:

Good point. As it is the Vehicle Emissions Act 2002  ( Highway Code art 123) to stop car idling is rarely if ever enforced.I know having reported people for parking right on the pavement and refusing to switch off their engines...and not once have the police taken action. And yet diesels throw out PM 10s by the billion and  petrol cars benzene and other pollutants but they ant gonna ban them are they?

Yup they are going to ban them and make life ever more difficult for them

3 hours ago, frangar said:

And there we were thinking everything on your boat was run by solar.....

No matter how you say it my boat is still way cleaner to run than yours every time you start that engine to get electric and hot water you are done for same as gas for cooking in the winter, late spring summer and early autumn hot water by solar for me and more electric than I know what to do with 😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, peterboat said:

Yup they are going to ban them and make life ever more difficult for them

They are only going to ban the sale of new vehicles by 2023 (maybe but lets see what the fossil fuel lobbyists mange to pull off) but what about the 28 million cars which are currently driving around and could be around for years to come. This new proposal is window dressing to the extreme ..but I didnt (and would never) vote for the Tories...or the other main parties for that matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, markeymark said:

They are only going to ban the sale of new vehicles by 2023 

Are you sure about that date?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not beyond the wit of engineers and physicists to invent ways of providing 'heat' without CO2 emissions, or by containing it at source, or even collecting it afterwards.

The blunt instrument of banning the use of fuel that causes the problem would just delay the solution - until the loss of 'heat' becomes serious and/or the alternative' fuel runs out.

A tourniquet around the neck is a quick fix for a nose bleed. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.