Banning House coal and wet wood

[Cheshire cat]

It's clear that Tesla have stolen a march on everyone else. What I don't understand is why the others haven't copied Tesla. My understanding is that Elon Musk has made his creations but hasn't patented anything because he wants the planet to be saved.

[Dr Bob]

16 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

It's clear that Tesla have stolen a march on everyone else. What I don't understand is why the others haven't copied Tesla. My understanding is that Elon Musk has made his creations but hasn't patented anything because he wants the planet to be saved.

I think most car companies never thought that EVs would gain any support because they didnt understand what could be done with electricity and batteries. They assumed they would be niche and never be able to compete. Its only now that Musk has learnt enough about power management to have a premium product. It will be years before the big auto makers have the experience to really compete.

Look at Tesla's strategy. Their biggest deal was with Panasonic to make the batteries. Absolutely essential if you are to make lots of cars. Have any other Auto manufacturers done this yet?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/bf0c37bc-27c8-11ea-9a4f-963f0ec7e134

Edited February 23, 2020 by Dr Bob

[peterboat]

25 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Interesting article...but its from 11 years ago.

 

Towards the end it asks a question and answers it:

So, with all these options for renewable hydrogen production and the significant, diverse renewable energy resources upon which we might draw worldwide, where do we stand in terms of the research and development (R&D) needed to address the challenges?

The answer is not clear,

 

11 years on, nothing has changed. No answers at all.

I chose it because it best explained the problems and the fact that we have moved on 11 years and nothing has changed other than Tesla is the only game in town! VW eith the ID range are playing catch up but are 6 years behind, I am retrofitting Lithium cells into my mega car to give it a 80 miles range which will be more than enough for my usage, if I have enough room I might add more to increase its range

[bizzard]

Clockwork will be the power of the future. Springs can be wound by either Workzone cordless drill from Aldi, or for excercise which folk need very badly with a huge key or a Stanley hand drill. Women can use the Stanley breast drill. Broken springs, pinions and governors ect replacement will be properly described with pictures in your Haynes workshop manual.  Cordless drills will be recharged whilst driving along by what is known as ''The bump method'' the cars motion of jogging up and down over potholes and sleeping policemen and women. For fast boost charging of the drill battery one simply drives along bouncing in and out of all the drainholes grids along the kirb, by useing the bump method over the drain holes continuousely with the cordless drill attached in the keyhole you have, in effect as well as clockwork motor also electric to power the wheels. With this cutting edge form of ccccclockwork technology car propulsion with the simple aforesaid winding up aids will ensure that you will always arrive at your destination. A little 3 in 1 oil will need to be applied to the clockwork motion every two milliom miles. This form of lowbrid car will be called ''The Clockbatdrill car'' and will be very cheap.    Tesla's and the likes, we s--t em.         Bizzard, missmanaging indirector and inventor of the Clockbatdrill lowbrid car company.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

This form of lowbrid car will be called ''The Clockbatdrill car'' and will be very cheap.    Tesla's and the likes, we s--t em.         Bizzard, missmanaging indirector and inventor of the Clockbatdrill lowbrid car company.

 

Sorry but even your Clockbatdrill car has a carbon footprint to manufacture it.

 

Here is a truly zero-carbon car, the only one designed and made so far in the history of mankind:

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[MHS]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Sorry but even your Clockbatdrill car has a carbon footprint to manufacture it.

 

Here is a truly zero-carbon car, the only one designed and made so far in the history of mankind:

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But does it have regenerative braking?

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, MHS said:

But does it have regenerative braking?

No,''Simple Sole braking''.

[peterboat]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Sorry but even your Clockbatdrill car has a carbon footprint to manufacture it.

 

Here is a truly zero-carbon car, the only one designed and made so far in the history of mankind:

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Do you know thats very similar to my Mega truck with its 900 watt solar panel roof!! its just that mine has regenerative braking

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

No,''Simple Sole braking''.

I thought it was heal and toe.

[nb Innisfree]

47 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I think most car companies never thought that EVs would gain any support because they didnt understand what could be done with electricity and batteries. They assumed they would be niche and never be able to compete. Its only now that Musk has learnt enough about power management to have a premium product. It will be years before the big auto makers have the experience to really compete.

Look at Tesla's strategy. Their biggest deal was with Panasonic to make the batteries. Absolutely essential if you are to make lots of cars. Have any other Auto manufacturers done this yet?

 

https://www.ft.com/content/bf0c37bc-27c8-11ea-9a4f-963f0ec7e134

Looks like Panasonic can't cut the technological mustard any more so Tesla are ditching them andgoing with their own technology. 

 

Someone in Japan did a teardown on a Model 3 and said they couldn't match its software. 

 

Game over for legacy carmakers unless they buy Tesla technology. 

[magnetman]

Maybe in the future all cars will be Tesla built under license using existing car manufacturers production capabilities. 

 

Like the old Russell Newbery and National situation. Too much demand. 

 

ETA or it will crash and burn due to people realising the cars are actually just oversized toys. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by magnetman

[ditchcrawler]

Someone on Facebook building their own https://www.facebook.com/groups/427372107686109/permalink/848566028900046/

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Graham I wouldnt call them cars and have you seen the price of them? not that you can buy them they are lease only, which is more expensive than a real electric car

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjNtZeunejnAhXGTsAKHXDlAvcQFjABegQIDBAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.renewableenergyfocus.com%2Fview%2F3157%2Fhydrogen-production-from-renewables%2F&usg=AOvVaw3O-Zy3jooY3drn4YnTfkyp

Yes I know the price and their business concept.
Totally ignored my question on the safety, or the point about hydrogen buses and trains. I wonder why?

[peterboat]

20 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Yes I know the price and their business concept.
Totally ignored my question on the safety, or the point about hydrogen buses and trains. I wonder why?

Because I don't have to, the market has decided that they don't like hydrogen cars and that saves us from having dangerous hydrogen on the roads! Trains why bother perfikly good overhead lines,  and buses just have big batteries already in service 

[Onionman]

On 22/02/2020 at 21:34, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which of course is correct for 300,000 of them, but obviously not 30m, if you you do some figures comparing the number of street lamps in a road then imagine every car parked in the same road is electric and all of them are trying to charge at the same time. (I.e. overnight)

 

 

 

Here's the head of the National Grid: "The most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation."

From https://www.nationalgrid.com/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

 

I suspect he's in a position to know what he's talking about.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Onionman said:

 

Here's the head of the National Grid: "The most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation."

From https://www.nationalgrid.com/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

 

I suspect he's in a position to know what he's talking about.

He is and even as we speak even more wind turbines go up and online 

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Here's the head of the National Grid: "The most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation."

From https://www.nationalgrid.com/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

 

I suspect he's in a position to know what he's talking about.

The average mileage for a car is circa 10,000 miles per year or 800 ish per month. For a Tesla that is 3 full charges - ie 3 nights in a month charging. Each charge is around 70KWatt hr, so in other words 210 KWatt hr/month ie on average 7KWhr each night ie £1 per night.

That sounds like about a 20% increase in electrickerty demand for domestic (assuming 1 car per household)  but when considering business usage, I can see where he gets his 10% from.

Doesnt sound too much like a problem?

[Richard10002]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

The average mileage for a car is circa 10,000 miles per year or 800 ish per month. For a Tesla that is 3 full charges - ie 3 nights in a month charging. Each charge is around 70KWatt hr, so in other words 210 KWatt hr/month ie on average 7KWhr each night ie £1 per night.

That sounds like about a 20% increase in electrickerty demand for domestic (assuming 1 car per household)  but when considering business usage, I can see where he gets his 10% from.

Doesnt sound too much like a problem?

We use about 9kWh per day, (gas heating and hob), so an extra 7kWh would be an increase of almost 80%.

 

I agree that business use wouldn't change as a consequence, and that some houses are all electric, but I'm not sure 10% is realistic.

 

I do recall there being talk of not enough capacity over recent years, and this before any real talk about 100% of vehicles being electric.

 

Unfortunately, I think these guys will tell us what they want us to hear, until such a time as they have no choice. let's face it, the Head of the National Grid couldn't be heard to say that there isn't enough capacity, particularly with a Dominic Cummings government.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

We use about 9kWh per day, (gas heating and hob), so an extra 7kWh would be an increase of almost 80%.

 

I agree that business use wouldn't change as a consequence, and that some houses are all electric, but I'm not sure 10% is realistic.

 

I do recall there being talk of not enough capacity over recent years, and this before any real talk about 100% of vehicles being electric.

 

Unfortunately, I think these guys will tell us what they want us to hear, until such a time as they have no choice. let's face it, the Head of the National Grid couldn't be heard to say that there isn't enough capacity, particularly with a Dominic Cummings government.

?

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

We use about 9kWh per day, (gas heating and hob), so an extra 7kWh would be an increase of almost 80%.

 

I agree that business use wouldn't change as a consequence, and that some houses are all electric, but I'm not sure 10% is realistic.

 

I do recall there being talk of not enough capacity over recent years, and this before any real talk about 100% of vehicles being electric.

 

Unfortunately, I think these guys will tell us what they want us to hear, until such a time as they have no choice. let's face it, the Head of the National Grid couldn't be heard to say that there isn't enough capacity, particularly with a Dominic Cummings government.

Surely Richard not processing oil into diesel and petrol will be a big electric saving?

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, peterboat said:

Surely Richard not processing oil into diesel and petrol will be a big electric saving?

No idea Peter. Have you got some numbers?

[Dr Bob]

8 hours ago, peterboat said:

Surely Richard not processing oil into diesel and petrol will be a big electric saving?

 

5 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

No idea Peter. Have you got some numbers?

Unfortunately, this one doesnt come out on the side of the 'greens'.

On a well run oil refinery, there is a lot of excess heat. Many of the processes generate heat ie the Cat Cracker etc. This heat is recovered in the form of high pressure and ultra high pressure steam and used for other processes. However most refineries have a big excess of this hot steam. The clever ones, therefore install a combined heating and power plant to generate electricity to the network. The ex BP refinery in Grangemouth....now in part Chinese ownership...now exports more lecky to the network than it imports! Effectively this power is being generated as a by product of burning natural gas so is actually fairly green compared to oil or coal fired power stations.

[mark99]

A lot of wind and no solar presently

 

 

https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=country&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false&countryCode=GB

[ditchcrawler]

Remember we are all going to have to change to electric heating as well at some point, so unless the builders up their game on heat loss efficiency that will also be more strain on the grid system

 

[mark99]

22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Remember we are all going to have to change to electric heating as well at some point, so unless the builders up their game on heat loss efficiency that will also be more strain on the grid system

 

 

Unless Hydrogen conversion/blending takes place.

 

Plenty of experiments starting up.

 

Sort of related - new site just getting up and going.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by mark99