Banning House coal and wet wood

[mark99]

9 hours ago, bizzard said:

Coke was in the main the bi product of coal fired town gas works, plenty of it then. Our neighbour worked at Beckton gas works, he had an old Standard Vanguard van with a back door window knocked out, through which he'd shovel in coke right up to the top and bring it home to burn on their Parkray. The Victorian London District and Metropolitan underground lines used coke to fire the steam loco's for a while, to cut down smoke in the tunnels, they also used condensers to cut down steam emissions too.

 

I prepared <Project Manager diverting the buried plant> a lot of that site when it closed down for selling off for housing. I used to have a massive hand drawn Victorian plan of the works when it was up and running - was going to get it framed - but lost the bloody plan - it was fascinating. Largest Gasworks in the world. I was there for endless months. At that time I used to work for "British Gas" London as a Construction Project Manager.

 

Still used to get people driving up to the gates looking for a bucket of creasote!

 

The security guard used to trap rabbits to eat from there. I showed him the ground toxicity report (cadmium, arsenic, zinc, oils) which heavily contaminated the whole 80 acres of so and suggested he stopped eating the rabbits.

 

Beckton = "Becks Town" - Beck being the first manager of that Gasworks. One of the old gasholder pits was full of fish. If you chucked a loaf in, the fish used to demolish it.

 

NB They filmed Full Metal Jacket on the land.

Edited February 23, 2020 by mark99

[Rob-M]

10 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

As has been said in a few topics recently - that is wrong.

Battery technology is ok - see Tesla. 300 mile range on one charge. Current batteries are ok and getting better by the year.

Most owners would charge at home overnight - 70% of the population could do this - the other 30% who live in apartments etc couldnt. For long trips use superchargers on trunk roads etc. The problem is not recharging infrastructure - but electricity generation. Falkirk are currently installing 100 charging points that will be FREE to us. Lots of other Scotish towns are doing the same thing.

 

A big change is coming. With the BIK tax break on EVs with a range over 250 miles (IIRC) there are lots of peeps who will get EV company cars. For peeps who dont understand BIK, if you get a company car, you get taxed on the value of that car. So if you are a higher rate tax payer ie 40%, then you can have a car without paying ANY tax (post this April) so that is worth £20K benefit on a Model 3 Tesla. In effect you can get a £50K Tesla for the same price as a £30K Merc/BMW/Audi. Watch the uptake in EVs increase massively this April.

A friend of mine has just taken delivery of his Tesla as a company car for exactly this reason.

 

[bizzard]

39 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

I prepared <Project Manager diverting the buried plant> a lot of that site when it closed down for selling off for housing. I used to have a massive hand drawn Victorian plan of the works when it was up and running - was going to get it framed - but lost the bloody plan - it was fascinating. Largest Gasworks in the world. I was there for endless months. At that time I used to work for "British Gas" London as a Construction Project Manager.

 

Still used to get people driving up to the gates looking for a bucket of creasote!

 

The security guard used to trap rabbits to eat from there. I showed him the ground toxicity report (cadmium, arsenic, zinc, oils) which heavily contaminated the whole 80 acres of so and suggested he stopped eating the rabbits.

 

Beckton = "Becks Town" - Beck being the first manager of that Gasworks. One of the old gasholder pits was full of fish. If you chucked a loaf in, the fish used to demolish it.

 

NB They filmed Full Metal Jacket on the land.

Interesting. I think think the site was used in several films. And of course there was, still is but smaller now, the huge slag heap by the A13 road, like a mountain. Beckton Alps its called, used to have a narrow gauge railway coiling around it to dump the slag on the top. I believe deposits of Cobolt had manifested itself in the slag, which was dug out and sold to Germany, what for? Cobolt bombs!! or just additive to make blue and green paint, I don't know. There is and has been for many years now a dry ski slope club operating on the southern side of the Beckton Alps now. A few years ago I helped a friend of mine who was a garage equipment plant installer install an air ring main and compressors in the then newly built North Thames gas van and truck repair workshop. At the time there was a large area set aside with rows and rows of large LPG storage tanks.

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Have you ever thought of writing your memoires "Brief Notes from the Twentieth Century" ?

You may need prompting BB [Before Bizzard]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_20th_century

I am writing them, on here, I'm gradually catching up though and should be up to date by about 2047.

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Peter X said:

Growing up in a 3 bed terraced house in SE London in the 1960s, our heating was a gas fire in the posher front room, but mainly a fireplace in the backroom where we burned coke. I remember my father, an ex scout master who knew a thing or two about fires, chopping up wood with an ave to make kindling, not sure where he got the wood from. I do wonder what a modern environmentalist would make of that heating arrangement. No idea where the coal merchant would have got the coke from, but maybe down by train/ship/canal?? from somewhere up north?? I remember a lot of railway stations in the southeast having piles of fuel in a yard next to them, many of which later got converted into car parks.

It was generally my job to go out in whatever weather the winter could throw at us to shovel coke from our old coalshed (built in 1947 by my mother's father) into the scuttle. So I just wrapped up well. Fortunately washing it first was not required; I think coke was a lot more porous than coal and washing it would have been a bad move.

A by product of the gas works maybe

[Richard10002]

12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

This is how we are doing https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/09/eon-uk-to-supply-3m-customers-with-100-renewable-electricity

Every time I read about “guarantee certificates”, I can’t help thinking that there is some kind of fiddle going on.

 

It would be interesting to hear how many of the 3 million would be supplied from Eons own renewables, and how much via “certificates”.

[BWM]

On 21/02/2020 at 09:22, The Welsh Cruiser said:

High sulphur fuels included in the ban. Petcoke? I hope not, it's great stuff, no smoke, no ash

 

And no stove either if it runs away!

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

Payback in a very short time says different,  and given that more than likely the electric 30 plus % of the population will be using now is from turbines I can't see it changing anytime soon 

I wish I had bought shares in the two in the next village, they don't seem to run much but they make a good profit ,

[Richard10002]

11 hours ago, peterboat said:

Google it Richard 

So not that huge then  

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

As has been said in a few topics recently - that is wrong.

Battery technology is ok - see Tesla. 300 mile range on one charge. Current batteries are ok and getting better by the year.

Most owners would charge at home overnight - 70% of the population could do this - the other 30% who live in apartments etc couldnt. For long trips use superchargers on trunk roads etc. The problem is not recharging infrastructure - but electricity generation. Falkirk are currently installing 100 charging points that will be FREE to us. Lots of other Scotish towns are doing the same thing.

 

A big change is coming. With the BIK tax break on EVs with a range over 250 miles (IIRC) there are lots of peeps who will get EV company cars. For peeps who dont understand BIK, if you get a company car, you get taxed on the value of that car. So if you are a higher rate tax payer ie 40%, then you can have a car without paying ANY tax (post this April) so that is worth £20K benefit on a Model 3 Tesla. In effect you can get a £50K Tesla for the same price as a £30K Merc/BMW/Audi. Watch the uptake in EVs increase massively this April.

Here is a map of charging points https://www.goultralow.com/ev-charging-point-map/

[MtB]

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

Always have a back up plan. I s'pose they'ed get screwed if they had a boat and expected every water point to be working?

Join the AA and use their recovery service?

[bizzard]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

He should have carried a long ladder and a pair of long jump leads, he could of then have crawled along to the nearest overhead national grid electric cables, climbed the pole or pylon and clamped on the jump leads to the wires to charge his battery. He would have had it charged up for nothing apart from a little effort. Or even climbed a lampost, remove the bulb and plugged in an extention lead to do it. I think there will be a lot of that behavior in the future.

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Always have a back up plan. I s'pose they'ed get screwed if they had a boat and expected every water point to be working?

Join the AA and use their recovery service?

Bob mike doesn't want to change his life he is happy to destroy the world making excuses that nothing works other than petrol and diesel! You could imagine him with his horse and boat saying that these new fangled steam engines in boats will never work...............???

[tree monkey]

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

He should have carried a long ladder and a pair of long jump leads, he could of then have crawled along to the nearest overhead national grid electric cables, climbed the pole or pylon and clamped on the jump leads to the wires to charge his battery. He would have had it charged up for nothing apart from a little effort. Or even climbed a lampost, remove the bulb and plugged in an extention lead to do it. I think there will be a lot of that behavior in the future.

Maybe a lot to begin with, not so much long term

[BEngo]

9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

He should have carried a long ladder and a pair of long jump leads, he could of then have crawled along to the nearest overhead national grid electric cables, climbed the pole or pylon and clamped on the jump leads to the wires to charge his battery. He would have had it charged up for nothing apart from a little effort. Or even climbed a lampost, remove the bulb and plugged in an extention lead to do it. I think there will be a lot of that behavior in the future.

Just the way it is done in Delhi, and a lot of other Indian cities. Assuming of course that your welder/tire pump/laundry machine/business what have you is powered by electric and not a Listeroid clone running on petrol or diesel.

 

 

[BilgePump]

2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Just the way it is done in Delhi, and a lot of other Indian cities. Assuming of course that your welder/tire pump/laundry machine/business what have you is powered by electric and not a Listeroid clone running on petrol or diesel.

 

 

Saw a jury rigged power cable come down in Paharganj. It was whipping around like a sparking snake. 

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, bizzard said:

  Or even climbed a lampost, remove the bulb and plugged in an extention lead to do it. I think there will be a lot of that behavior in the future.

I thought you only did that with telephone boxes

31 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

The guy who lived next door to me use to regularly run out of petrol and it didn't occur to him to carry a can

[nb Innisfree]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

Some folk don't look before they leap. 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

2 hours ago, BWM said:

And no stove either if it runs away!

This is true, but you know boaters, quickly become experts in regulating the available air to best effect. Petcoke is a great fuel, like anthracite on steroids but much cheaper, easier to light, and more controllable.

[Up-Side-Down]

13 hours ago, peterboat said:

You do make me laugh hydrogen for cars is already dead in the water over 30% of electric is already made by wind turbines, and hydrogen is very dangerous it has the ability to destroy the metals used to store and supply it! The new Tesla's will have 400 mile range with batteries warranties for a million miles! For 99% of the population it's enough 

Be prepared to eat your words in 10 – 20 years time Mr Boat. You may well find that a lot of that wind-produced electricity is being used to produce hydrogen. Some will undoubtedly be from wind farms well out into the North Sea and the hydrogen will be produced close to their location and piped ashore via redundant North Sea oil and gas pipelines. Not my personal vision but one from people who know what they're talking about. 

 

The first hydrogen-powered nb is not a million miles away (probably a hybrid hydrogen electric craft) and we're already way beyond the prototype stage with hydrogen powered blue water boats, with significant input from RYA, British Marine and Blue Green. IWA have a very active sub-committee working on Sustainable Boating and future propulsion.

[Detling]

On 21/02/2020 at 15:40, Cheese said:

Once the ban on new vehicles comes in (which I think is 2035, or perhaps 2032), I think we can expect to see a gradual ramping up of incentives of dispose of existing vehicles.  Over a period, probably more stringent MOT emissions tests, significant increases in VED, etc.

But what will replace VED and fuel duty/tax?  electric cars produce neither revenue stream for the government, so either they try to extract the same revenue from fewer petrol/diesel vehicles or they have to find new ways.  I understand you can only get 'smart' car chargers installed now which may form a way of taxing electricity fed into a vehicle, so plans for a good homebrew dumb charger may sell well.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I know of someone who bought a brand new electric car and on their first trip to cornwall got stranded, as the charge point they were relying on to get back was broken, and there were no others within their remaining range.

 

The wife found the whole saga so stressful she refused to travel in it again. He had to sell it and get a proper car. Lost a packet on it.

 

 

 

 

 

My eldest daughter was very keen to go fully electric but after doing a fair bit of research she backed off and has ordered a Kia self charging hybrid instead. She regularly does long journeys (Including Cornwall for her holidays) and she didn't fancy the prospect of being in that exact situation so she compromised.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Join the AA and use their recovery service?

 

Surprisingly they actually do provide recovery for that eventuality.

 

I wonder how long they will be able to sustain that for as electric vehicle numbers increase.

[Peter X]

I've a feeling that theft of electricity from street lights etc. happens in many ways in many places around the world. Same goes on with oil pipelines; I think they had some terrible accident years ago in Nigeria where someone was diverting oil but it caught fire? This is not  a new concept; I'm sure I read that in ancient Rome, they had a giant aqueduct carrying water into the city from the nearby hills to supply baths etc., but people along its route were diverting water from it into their houses and creating problems.

 

Meanwhile re. my parent's supply of coke (no, NOT that sort of coke!), I have a notion that although Beckton gas works was big, there were others in London and elsewhere, so which our coal merchant got their supplies from I wouldn't know. No doubt there was a logistics problem around the supply and demand; I guess certain industries would have used coke as well as households.

No doubt London, like every city/town needed the gas etc., and I guess the works got built in Beckton because land was cheap enough and it was a handy place for bringing in the raw coal through the London docks.

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Peter X said:

I've a feeling that theft of electricity from street lights etc. happens in many ways in many places around the world. Same goes on with oil pipelines; I think they had some terrible accident years ago in Nigeria where someone was diverting oil but it caught fire? This is not  a new concept; I'm sure I read that in ancient Rome, they had a giant aqueduct carrying water into the city from the nearby hills to supply baths etc., but people along its route were diverting water from it into their houses and creating problems.

 

Meanwhile re. my parent's supply of coke (no, NOT that sort of coke!), I have a notion that although Beckton gas works was big, there were others in London and elsewhere, so which our coal merchant got their supplies from I wouldn't know. No doubt there was a logistics problem around the supply and demand; I guess certain industries would have used coke as well as households.

No doubt London, like every city/town needed the gas etc., and I guess the works got built in Beckton because land was cheap enough and it was a handy place for bringing in the raw coal through the London docks.

Our primary school used coke in the stoves in the class room