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dor

Banning House coal and wet wood

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There is an article on the front page of the Daily Telegraph saying coal fires are to be banned. I only got this from the BBC website so can’t read the details.  If anyone has access to the paper perhaps they could let us know if there is any meat in this.

 Can’t find anything on their website.

Edited by NB Lola
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9 minutes ago, dor said:

There is an article on the front page of the Daily Telegraph saying coal fires are to be banned. I only got this from the BBC website so can’t read the details.  If anyone has access to the paper perhaps they could let us know if there is any meat in this.

 Can’t find anything on their website.

It's the timing announcement of banning house coal and wet wood.

 

Smokeless solid fuel and dry wood will still be permitted.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/government-ban-coal-wood-heating-2023-1886130

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It mentions the sale of wet wood not the use of it. If that’s correct foraging is still ok, not that I do it.

I also only use smokeless, never house coal.

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Thanks for the link.

 So no real change from what we knew already.

 

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6 hours ago, Ianws said:

It mentions the sale of wet wood not the use of it. If that’s correct foraging is still ok, not that I do it.

 

This tallies with what I heard on the BBC this morning. It is the sale, not the use, of such fuels which will be prohibited. Most of the wood for our home stove comes from tree-surgery work in our garden anyway. But foraging for coal could be difficult.

 

Mind you, we have lit our stove only twice since Christmas as the winter has been quite mild, and I suspect that many other people have done similarly, so in the short term at least, if this new law comes in it will have little practical effect.

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3 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

 

Mind you, we have lit our stove only twice since Christmas as the winter has been quite mild, and I suspect that many other people have done similarly, so in the short term at least, if this new law comes in it will have little practical effect.

What do you heat your boat with without the stove on?  Diesel heater?

Edited by doratheexplorer

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3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

What do you heat your boat with without the stove on?  Diesel heater?

As, I mentioned,I was referring to our home. The boat does indeed have an Eberspacher heater in addition to a Godin solid-fuel stove.

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11 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

 

Mind you, we have lit our stove only twice since Christmas as the winter has been quite mild, and I suspect that many other people have done similarly, so in the short term at least, if this new law comes in it will have little practical effect.

If I’d had let our stove go out since October I would have been in trouble!..your idea of mild isn’t the same as my OH....

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15 minutes ago, frangar said:

If I’d had let our stove go out since October I would have been in trouble!..your idea of mild isn’t the same as my OH....

Yeah it gets pretty damp in the afternoons especially . I have been back at the house for a few days and came back to the Boat and relit the Fire , its the worse thing you can do on a Boat as it seems like an eternity before it gets really warm again .

Edited by Parahandy
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20 minutes ago, Athy said:

As, I mentioned,I was referring to our home. The boat does indeed have an Eberspacher heater in addition to a Godin solid-fuel stove.

oh, I thought this was the General Boating section.  my mistake.

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Just now, doratheexplorer said:

oh, I thought this was the General Boating section.  my mistake.

No mistake, you are perfectly correct.

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2 minutes ago, Parahandy said:

Yeah it gets pretty damp in the afternoons especially . I have been back at the house for a few days and came back to the Boat and relit the Fire , its the worse thing you can do on a Boat as it seems like an eternity before it gets really warm again .

I regularly have nights away from my boat.  When I return I put EVERYTHING on and can get it reasonably well warmed in less than an hour.

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Could a mod change the topic title since the story isn't about banning stoves.  Maybe something like 'banning housecoal and wet wood'

Edited by doratheexplorer
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The sale of coal for domestic use will be banned by 2023 the government will announce, in its bid to combat air pollution.

Ministers will also pledge to phase out the sale of wet (or unseasoned) wood as well as coal from 2021 onwards, in a move they say will help clean up England’s air quality. Both products will be completely banned by February 2023. But responding to the plans, coal merchants insisted that households burning coal could see a 30-50 per cent rise in the annual fuel bill.

The bans will end a centuries-long practice of burning coal to keep the hearth glowing. But Environment Secretary George Eustice insisted the change is necessary to reduce air pollution.

“Cosy open fires and wood-burning stoves are at the heart of many homes up and down the country, but the use of certain fuels means that they are also the biggest source of the most harmful pollutant that is affecting people in the UK,” he said. “By moving towards the use of cleaner fuels such as dry wood we can all play a part in improving the health of millions of people.”

Under the plans bagged house coal will be banned by February 2021, while the sale of loose coal direct to consumers from coal merchants will be banned by February 2023. The phase-out of wet wood will begin in February 2021, although it may remain on sale for some time after that to allow existing stocks to be used up, the Government said.

In both cases ministers insisted alternative fuels are available. Smokeless fuel’s initial cost is greater than regular house coal, but works out more cost-effective due to its longer burning rates and better heat output.

Coal merchants warned the legislation would hit the poorest hardest.

“The introduction of a ban on the sale of house coal would have an unintended, disproportionate impact on some of the most economically and socially vulnerable people in the UK, with a real likelihood of an increase in the severity of fuel poverty levels,” warned Nigel Yaxley, managing director of the Association of UK Coal Importers and Producers. He also warned the ban on coal could drive people to switch to wet wood, which emits more particulate matter and could therefore push up emissions.

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I doubt it would effect boaters anyway. Most legislation like this refers to burning fuel in a house environment and smoke being emitted via the chimney. It's quite specific and doesnt for instance cover such as bonfires in gardens which are still legal unless causing annoyance. 

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14 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I doubt it would effect boaters anyway. Most legislation like this refers to burning fuel in a house environment and smoke being emitted via the chimney. It's quite specific and doesnt for instance cover such as bonfires in gardens which are still legal unless causing annoyance. 

I guess it will depend on the actual wording - if it says "Domestic heating" then it could be read as including boats.

 

(Diesel for 'domestic use !!)

 

I wonder if the new legislation will replace the exemptions for boat under the current laws ?

 

Clean Air Act 1993

 

(4) The waters to which this section applies are—

(a) all waters not navigable by sea-going ships; and

(b) all waters navigable by sea-going ships which are within the seaward limits of the territorial waters of the United Kingdom and are contained within any port, harbour, river, estuary, haven, dock, canal or other place so long as a person or body of persons is empowered by or under any Act to make charges in respect of vessels entering it or using facilities in it.

 

(5) In subsection (4) "charges" means any charges with the exception of light dues, local light dues and any other charges payable in respect of lighthouses, buoys or beacons and of charges in respect of pilotage. 

(6) Except as provided in this section, nothing in Parts I to III applies to smoke, grit or dust from any vessel. 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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37 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Could a mod change the topic title since the story isn't about banning stoves.  Maybe something like 'banning housecoal and wet wood'

No, leave it, it's the thin end of the wedge.

We were in Cork ,ROI in December and stoves are being banned completely there in a couple of years...

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

No, leave it, it's the thin end of the wedge.

We were in Cork ,ROI in December and stoves are being banned completely there in a couple of years...

Ahh but they are probably just doing as they are told by Brussels innitt 😜

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I'm wondering how this will affect those who burn anthracite?

OK, not on boats perhaps but domestically.

 

Anthracite is a natural fuel but burns without smoke as does the Welsh dry steam coal currently available from the Ffos-y-Fran open cast.

 

I wonder how the steam heritage sector is going to manage? i've a few cwt stashed to fuel the avatar but reckon I ought to stock up.

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26 minutes ago, matty40s said:

No, leave it, it's the thin end of the wedge.

We were in Cork ,ROI in December and stoves are being banned completely there in a couple of years...

Do you have any evidence of this?  I've just had a look and all I can find is related to banning the sale of housecoal, the same as over here.

 

Scaremongering?

17 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

I'm wondering how this will affect those who burn anthracite?

OK, not on boats perhaps but domestically.

 

Anthracite is a natural fuel but burns without smoke as does the Welsh dry steam coal currently available from the Ffos-y-Fran open cast.

 

I wonder how the steam heritage sector is going to manage? i've a few cwt stashed to fuel the avatar but reckon I ought to stock up.

The article indicates that naturally 'smokeless' coal will be allowed.

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35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I guess it will depend on the actual wording - if it says "Domestic heating" then it could be read as including boats.

 

(Diesel for 'domestic use !!)

 

I wonder if the new legislation will replace the exemptions for boat under the current laws ?

 

 

I doubt it would include boats as most moorings don't have planning permission and so aren't listed as domestic dwellings. Boats on residential moorings might be affected though.

 

However, as I read it the new law is about the selling of those fuels for domestic use. If the majority of the market for house coal disappears overnight then it may become uneconomical to produce, transport or sell it at all, so even those who are legally still entitled to burn it (on boats for example) may find that they can no longer get hold of it. 

 

That's no bad thing in my opinion. The stuff stinks and anyone who burns it within 25 yards of another boat is being antisocial.

Edited by blackrose
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1 hour ago, Parahandy said:

Yeah it gets pretty damp in the afternoons especially . I have been back at the house for a few days and came back to the Boat and relit the Fire , its the worse thing you can do on a Boat as it seems like an eternity before it gets really warm again .

Same here if I am Jayne s for the weekend I light the Rayburn, bubble stove and fire up the whispergen soon has the boat toasty

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6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Same here if I am Jayne s for the weekend I light the Rayburn, bubble stove and fire up the whispergen soon has the boat toasty

I knew sooner or later a smug wide beam owner would pop up informing me of their superior lifestyle 😀

I suppose I could run the Engine which sits in the middle of the Boat and fire up the Boatmans Stove but normally the Squirrel on its own is adequate , maybe I am just getting old 😀

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