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Condensation on window frames


Kendorr

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On my new build, I went for double glazed windows from Caldwell's. I read about a thermal break, but wasn't convinced it would be needed - it's looking like I was wrong. I get quite a lot of condensation on the window frames, so much so that they drip overnight.

 

Has anyone else got the same problem?

 

Any ideas for how this could be reduced or completely alleviated?

 

When I fitted the windows I used neoprene foam between the superstructure and the window frame.

 

Thanks in advance

Kevin

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28 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

Any ideas for how this could be reduced or completely alleviated?

Keeping the inside temperature cooler than the outside temperature would alleviate the problem.

 

With 'solid' frames (no thermal break) you will get condensation, simply by breathing, boiling the kettle, cooking etc there is not really much you can do - obviously on the glass the condensation can dribble away thru the holes in the base of the frames, but when it is on the edge surround there is nowhere you can drain it off.

If you have 'power' a de-humidifier will help, but if not, its going to have to be loads of kitchen roll every morning.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

eeping the inside temperature cooler than the outside temperature would alleviate the problem.

Fire off then!! I have got an electric de-humidifier running, so I'm obviously doing all I can.

 

Thanks for the reply Alan.

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1 hour ago, Kendorr said:

On my new build, I went for double glazed windows from Caldwell's. I read about a thermal break, but wasn't convinced it would be needed - it's looking like I was wrong. I get quite a lot of condensation on the window frames, so much so that they drip overnight.

 

Has anyone else got the same problem?

 

Any ideas for how this could be reduced or completely alleviated?

 

When I fitted the windows I used neoprene foam between the superstructure and the window frame.

 

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Given the choice, I'd pick the thermal break over the double glazing, because at least the condensation forming on the glass finds it's way out of the boat through drainage holes.  As you've discovered, condensation on the frame ends up soaking the trim and making the panelling damp, which is the enemy most of us are battling.  Sadly, cold aluminium window frames are pretty much ubiquitous in narrowboats - certainly my Caldwell windows suffer the same issue as yours - and you'll find many a discussions about how to keep humidity low to minimise the issue you're suffering.  Well worth a search and a bit of reading, I'd suggest.  Many of us will be interested to see any replies you receive about fixing the cold frames but, sadly, I doubt many will be holding their breath.  :(

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11 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Given the choice, I'd pick the thermal break

I'm not building another boat though!!!

 

I do also think part of the problem is that I'm not a live-aboard, I usually manage 2 or 3 nights onboard each week, so boat gets very cold - 6 degrees when I got here this morning - then I put the fire on and everything heats up, including the moisture in the atmosphere. Ah well!!

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19 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

I'm not building another boat though!!!

 

I do also think part of the problem is that I'm not a live-aboard, I usually manage 2 or 3 nights onboard each week, so boat gets very cold - 6 degrees when I got here this morning - then I put the fire on and everything heats up, including the moisture in the atmosphere. Ah well!!

Yeah, I agree.  I find the same after I leave the boat for a bit, but a couple of days in and you're back on a fairly even keel with sensible precautions against creating humidity.

 

I know you're not building another boat, but you'd rather hope boatbuilders and window manufactures might catch on, eh?  :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Kendorr said:

On my new build, I went for double glazed windows from Caldwell's. I read about a thermal break, but wasn't convinced it would be needed - it's looking like I was wrong. I get quite a lot of condensation on the window frames, so much so that they drip overnight.

 

Has anyone else got the same problem?

 

Any ideas for how this could be reduced or completely alleviated?

Had double glazed from Channelglaze fitted some years ago. Yes, same problem. No, you can’t stop it.

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2 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

you'd rather hope boatbuilders and window manufactures might catch on, eh?  :rolleyes:

 

1 hour ago, AndrewIC said:

double glazed from Channelglaze fitted some years ago. Yes, same problem. No, you can’t stop it.

 

But they have caught on, and they can stop it.

 

It just costs more so most people don't take them up on it ... 

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Keep the stove hot and open the windows to control the temp. Only works when you are on the boat though. We've got the back two windows covered with 2nd ry glazing i.e. film, but the forward 4 windows are single glazed so can be opened and have not been that bad this winter as it's been quite mild. It been much easier this winter.

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Not any help to the OP but we replaced old single glazed Caldwell's windows with their thermal break ones last year. It's made a huge difference condensation wise and in our view well worth the money. 

 

A word of warning though, be aware that the external frame sizes on the clip in version are smaller and barely cover the screw holes for the old windows, we had to put a thick bead of sealer around them to cover the holes.

Silly me thought that the same size windows from the same company would be exactly the same dimensions :(

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On our boat with brass portholes we find the brass frame gives far more condensation than the glass itself. for overnight I have cut foam board that stops this as I plug the window.... thinking I may get Perspex circles to plug in during the day if it annoys me too much...….

 

 

Edited by robtheplod
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3 hours ago, Kendorr said:

Thanks to everyone for replies. Now I'm more informed I think the secondary glazing will be used next winter and see how it goes.

 

I'm amazed that you'd even consider secondary glazing (plastic film) over double glazing. What's the point of spending all that money on double glazed units if you've still got to use that horrible fiim? Personally I don't have much of an issue with condensation as my windows are all single glazed 15" portholes so the actual frame area is relatively small, but if the condensation on the frames is such an issue for you then I'd have your windows removed and properly refitted.

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4 hours ago, Kendorr said:

Thanks to everyone for replies. Now I'm more informed I think the secondary glazing will be used next winter and see how it goes.

I installed sliding glass glazing over Innisfree's brass ports, port glass was left slightly ajar and SG slid shut, all condensation was stopped. Space created between port and SG was just right for venetian blinds. 

Edited by nb Innisfree
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14 minutes ago, blackrose said:

windows removed and properly refitted.

Thanks for the info, I've done everything on the boat, apart from the basic electrics and gas, so the problems I'm having are all my own doing. While the condensation isn't a major issue, it is starting to discolour bits of the Oak I've used for the fitout. I'll manage for what's left of the winter and make decisions later in the year.

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38 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

I installed sliding glass glazing over Innisfree's brass ports, port glass was left slightly ajar and SG slid shut, all condensation was stopped. Space created between port and SG was just right for venetian blinds. 

We had a wooden sliding porthole 'cover', closed at night and it kept the warm air off the cold frame = no condensation.

 

You can see a little bit of wood staining from when we didn't bother closing it.

Being adjacent to the bed meant that any 'heavy breathing' would give condensation.

 

IMG_1534.JPG

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We had a wooden sliding porthole 'cover', closed at night and it kept the warm air off the cold frame = no condensation.

 

You can see a little bit of wood staining from when we didn't bother closing it.

Being adjacent to the bed meant that any 'heavy breathing' would give condensation.

 

IMG_1534.JPG

Basicall same as ours but wood instead of glass, we had single glazed brass ports which suffered bad condensation in cold weather.,the extra glass combined with ventilated space between exceeded all my expectations. I posted a pic on here years ago but I can't find it. 

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Isn't it simply a matter of temporarily adding  some ventilation (open a window)?

I have aluminium windows frames and we did get really bad condensation on the frames . The dehumidifier takes care of that while on sore power and we are not aboard .

While on board plenty of heating and ventilation is the cure.

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