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Checklist for novice boat purchasers


howardang

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Here is one I made earlier, the original has a load of images in it but they did not copy across to the forum.

 

 

Buying a Second Hand Narrowboat

 

People who have hired or share owned boats for years will know what features they want in a boat, but people who have only had the odd holiday will almost certainly not - they may think they know but after a year's boating they often change their minds. If insufficient time is given to deciding what you want it may turn out to be an expensive mistake. Hire brochures show internal plans and outside pictures. Boat shows and visiting brokers give the opportunity to go over boats. Do not be tempted to part with money at this stage.

 

Whatever else you do take time visiting boats and seeing how plans work in practice. Think about getting right through the boat in an emergency, how using the toilet/shower/galley will affect people moving through the boat and where your guests will sit in the open. Most important of all, gentlemen, involve your partner otherwise you might get a quick course in single-handing!

 

Having defined what you think you need hire a few similar boats. Make sure some trips are in the winter, you may alter your plans! This will give the opportunity to sample different types of equipment like heating, toilets, cookers, engine type, the need for a cratch & cover (the “tent” at the front) and type of water tank (some need regular cleaning and painting). Try walking along the outside of the hull and decide what style of handrail you feel safest with. Use the opportunity to talk to boaters you meet. Most will happily tell you why they chose what they did and some may show you over their boat. Hiring also gives a yardstick to judge boats against.

 

Read the newsgroups and other boat related sites on the internet and do not be afraid to ask for advice - you will probably get too much, a lot conflicting.

 

Download or send for the latest Boat Safety Scheme regulations, study and learn them. This will allow you to judge the validity of a boat's certificate..

 

Before you start looking at boats with an intention to actually purchase visit any local builders who are renovating old properties. Ask them if they have any wet or dry rot that you can smell. You need to remember this musty, mushroomy smell.

 

Boat hulls come in a variety of “qualities”. Bottom of the range will always fetch low prices however good you make them look. A top range hull bought in poor condition will fetch a good price once you smarten it.

 

Most, but not all, narrowboats are built on an absolutely flat base-plate that is slightly wider than the actual boat so it protects the welds and lower part of the hull side. A mid-range narrow boat today will have a specification of 10-6-4. This means the base-plate is 10mm thick, the hull sides 6mm thick and the cabin sides and roof 4mm thick. If there is an extra number quoted it is the thickness of the roof. A cheaper hull may be 8-5-3 and older boats may have 6mm or thinner base plates. Now you can use the sales sheet to get an impression of hull quality. Generally the bigger the numbers the better.

 

Typically better quality hulls have longer the swims (The “pointy” bits at either end). Expect them to be between 6 and 8 feet long on a mid-range hull.

 

Now inspect the welds on the cabin sides. Cheap boats will have wavy cabin sides and the welds standing proud as shown. Mid range hulls will have the welds ground flush, but you will still see indentations unless someone has filled them with body filler (see fig). Top class hulls should have no visible welds and the cabin sides should be absolutely flat.

 

You should now be able to tell if the price of the boat reflects its underlying value.

 

Inspect the hull for signs of rust pitting. Look around the waterline and below any vents in the hull (sink/basin drain, gas tank drain, and exhaust). On a modern hull pits of less than 0.5mm or so should cause no concern. A few larger ones can be filled with weld when the boat is being blacked. Check the anodes (Silvery lumps of metal perhaps 12" x 4" x 1" welded to the hull by a steel bar, often two at the front and back) Very pitted and eroded anodes or missing anodes indicate poor maintenance and cost cutting in the past.

 

Remember that a private seller can almost lie with impunity whilst a broker will have a clause in all their descriptions saying that anything in the sales brochure might be untrue so check the hull specification.

 

Try to borrow (or even buy - £12 from Screwfix) a 0 to 25mm micrometer. You are only interested in measuring to the nearest mm which is dead easy. (see diagram). Measure the thickness through the drains for the front cockpit and through engine room vents or where the gunnels turns over in the cockpit. Measure the roof and cabin side where it overhangs at the front or back. In all these cases allow say 0.5 mm for paint thickness. If the boat is ashore you can measure the base plate “overhang” - expect it to be worn.

 

 

Now inspect the cabin sides and roof. Areas of rust that are not very pitted may lower the price, but as long as they are in full view they are repairable during painting. If, however, you see rust bubbles emanating from (say) behind a window frame there is a problem. Unless you take the frame out, fully treat the rust and repaint, the rust will keep creeping out from below the frame, and as the steel below the frame rusts it expands, pushing the frame away from the side, giving rise to leaks.

 

 

 

 

Look inside cockpit lockers and all round the engine room to ensure the inside of the hull is not badly pitted.

 

Walk through the boat sniffing and looking around windows, chimneys and roof vents. Wet cloth and rot smells tells you there is a problem with the woodwork. “Toilet” smells may indicate a lack of cleanliness or it may indicate a leaking toilet tank, low quality toilet hoses or even a gas leak.

 

Black streaks in the wood or "water marks", bowing gaps (see fig 6), delamination of plywood or blockboard and swelling MDF all indicate present or past water leaks. At the same timed look for signs of “Conti-board” or other chipboard. This is not suitable for damp environments. Good quality fit-outs will use solid wood and possibly plywood, whilst cheaper fit outs use a lot of MDF - look in the base of any routed features. If it’s a uniform brown with no marked grain its MDF.

 

 

 

Look in the internal channels of the windows. If they are full of moss etc the long term care of the boat is suspect, as it is if rubber cord is pulled out of place (between glass and frame) and is lying across the corners of the window. (see fig)

 

 

 

 

Unscrew a switch or speaker so you can check the type and thickness of thermal insulation.

 

Look under the gunnels and in the back of cupboards to find the wiring. This should be clipped up in neat bundles and if any individual cable feels “stiff” when bent between two fingers and the thumb it is probably solid strand domestic cable that will fracture in time. If you find any “flat” “three strand” mains cable (not mains flex) it is again an indication of poor fitting out unless it is a very old boat.

 

 

 

Light every gas burner and ensure they all work and none burn with a yellow flame. If the fridge is gas then light that and again ensure there is no yellow in the flame. Test all the electrical equipment. The more that does not work the worse the boat has been looked after. Turn on a number of lights and operate the water pump or electric toilet, if the lights dim noticeably there is a problem. If its not flat batteries it is probably expensive and may be dangerous..

 

Now turn your attention to the bilges. Most boats built over the last 20 years will be of the two-bilge design. An accommodation bilge that is separated from the engine or stern bilge; but there are a few exceptions. Older boats may have “all in one” bilges, a front, accommodation, and engine bilge (again separate) or the front bilge may be piped through the accommodation bilge into the engine bilge.

 

At the back of the cabin, usually under the steps or in a cupboard there should be a trap to give access to the accommodation bilge. The bilge should be dry in an insulated boat. If it is not it indicates leaking, possibly windows, water system, toilet system, or shower/bath system and pump. If it’s the latter you may well see soap scum or smell the soap. If you have turned the water pump on and you hear it running now and again it may well indicate a domestic water leak. If the water is clear and the pump is silent then it is probably condensation or window leaks. Very often this is the area where wood rot can be found

 

 

 

 

You can expect the baseplate to be rusty on an older boat and it is of little consequence unless either the baseplate is thin or deeply pitted (say 1mm +). There should not be any wet carpet or floor covering in this area. If there is water present or wet floor coverings question the maintenance.

 

Now look at the engine - make it clear to the vendor/broker that you will be running the engine and checking the gearbox.

 

Look into the engine coolant header tank. The level should be at least an inch below the filler neck, but it can be far lower as long as you can see the coolant. It should not be thick and brown like cocoa, the colour of the antifreeze should be visible. Very rusty, “thick” water indicates a lack of maintenance and possible corrosion inside the cooling system.

 

Run your hand over the batteries and engine. If you feel warmth make another appointment and insist that the batteries are not charged or the engine without you being present. If there are any explanations or excuses as to why the batteries needed charging just before viewing or why they are flat question the charging system and estimate between £60 and £120 per battery for new ones.

 

The engine should start easily from cold and any white smoke should stop after a few minutes. If the engine is equipped with heater/glow plugs allow up to 30 seconds for these to do their job. The longer it takes to start and the more/longer it smokes the worse condition the engine is in.

 

Move the control lever to ahead and rev the engine. Note how long it takes for the propeller shaft to start to rotate. Repeat with reverse. Both should take similar time for the shaft to come up to speed and the longer it takes the more chance the gearbox is worn out. A clang or thud as the gears engage may indicate a faulty drive plate or gearbox. Leave the engine running.

 

Inspect the batteries. If they have grown “fur” on the terminals the boat has not been well looked after. If the end of any battery is bowing out and swelling the battery is nearing the end of its life. The larger the bow the shorter its remaining life.

 

At either side of the engine and behind it there is a bilge where there may be a little water but there should be no oil. If the whole area is covered in black oil with pieces of dirt or rag floating in it the boat has not been well looked after. Under the engine there should be a sealed area. I would like to see this clean and free from all oil and water. A bilge blanket here to absorb and oil or fuel drips shows care. Again if this area is full of oil and water the boat has not been maintained well. Ideally the whole of the area should be well painted with little signs of rust, a film of dust and the odd oily area is acceptable.

 

There should be no major oil or rust streaks on the engine, no build up of oily dirt and no pools of oil or water on it.

 

 

 

Now the engine is getting warm, take the oil filler cap off and rev the engine. There will be a certain amount of pressure coming from the filler (compare with other boats and even your car) but excess pressure or smoky fumes indicate engine problems. If there is a pressure gauge check the oil pressure. On a modern (not air cooled Listers) expect more than 15psi on idle and over 35psi when revving when hot.

 

Stop the engine, pause, and check the engine and gearbox dipstick for level. The engine oil should be fairly black but runny. Water gives oils a whitish tinge, this is a bad sign. Smell the engine oil, if you can smell diesel there is a problem.

 

At last - take the boat for a run, if a river is nearby give it a bit of an upstream thrash to ensure the engine does not overheat or make excessive smoke. Compare the vibration, noise and "stopping ability" with the boats you hired.

 

If you are still satisfied it is time to make an offer "subject to survey" and make sure it is understood that final price is dependant upon the survey.

 

Now you only have to find a legal mooring!

 

Edited by Tony Brooks
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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

and that illustrates the problem with the idea, good though it is. Just how far do you go.

Indeed. You could write a book on the subject but it would be ever such a boring read. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

and that illustrates the problem with the idea, good though it is. Just how far do you go.

We who already own boats might only skip sketchily through your post - but a first-time buyer will be likely to read it keenly and carefully.

Edited by Athy
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10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Tony, you have pasted the doc in twice. Reinforces the message though by having to read it twice.

Well done!

 

I have notice that Libra Office has been mangling some copy and pastes. IN this case it seems it put a complete  paste in the middle of teh first one although I only did one copy.

 

Now edited I think.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

We who already own boats might only skip sketchily through your post - but a first-time buyer (such as the O.P.) will be likely to read it keenly and carefully.

Sorry to correct you, but as the OP I am not a first time buyer and have  been boating the inland waterways for over 40 years.

 

i made my initial suggestion to possibly help total novices answer the really basic questions. I think Tony’s contribution goes a long way to solving this question.

 

Howard

 

 

 

Edited by howardang
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18 minutes ago, howardang said:

Sorry to correct you, but as the OP I am not a first time buyer and have  been boating the inland waterways for nearly 30 years.

 

i made my initial suggestion to possibly help total novices answer the really basic questions. I think Tony’s contribution goes a long way to solving this question.

 

Howard

 

 

 

My mistake, sorry. Of course I know that you're an experienced boater, but I didn't look back to the beginning of the thread and had forgotten that you were posting to help other people.

I've now corrected my original post,

Edited by Athy
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30 minutes ago, howardang said:

Sorry to correct you, but as the OP I am not a first time buyer and have  been boating the inland waterways for nearly 30 years.

 

In which case you are more than qualified and experienced enough to bung up at least a first draft.

 

Gwarn, don't be so coy!!

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In which case you are more than qualified and experienced enough to bung up at least a first draft.

 

Gwarn, don't be so coy!!

 

 

No, I'll leave it to the real experts and sit at their feet, admiring in wonder and amazement:captain:

 

Howard

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and    make sure the boat is of suitable dimensions to cruise easily on the waterways where you intend to use it.

Looking at the published maximum dimensions is NOT adequate.

A recommendation from ONE other boat owner with a boat of similar dimensions is also not adequate.

 

Particularly important if buying a brand new boat.

 

...............Dave

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have notice that Libra Office has been mangling some copy and pastes. IN this case it seems it put a complete  paste in the middle of teh first one although I only did one 

It's in honour of the chap who invented cut/paste/copy for computers who died yesterday

2 hours ago, Alastair said:

Splitter!

 

Compost

Peoples Judean Front...

 

Incinerating 

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I've just bought a boat so maybe don't qualify to give advice but still... My advice would be not to rely on lists of dos and don'ts  but rather spend a very loooong time reading, watching, listening and talking to people about anything and everything relating to boats. Same advice for anything else you're getting into for that matter!

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32 minutes ago, Dre said:

I've just bought a boat so maybe don't qualify to give advice but still... My advice would be not to rely on lists of dos and don'ts  but rather spend a very loooong time reading, watching, listening and talking to people about anything and everything relating to boats. Same advice for anything else you're getting into for that matter!

If you are doing that, make sure you are able to filter out the duff information.

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Especially boat forums ???

But really both good and bad information are both good I think... It's not quite like buying a used car... The boat is just half the story, I think. You really have to make sure it's a lifestyle for you and to find that out I don't think there's any shortcut! 

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1 hour ago, Dre said:

Especially boat forums ???

But really both good and bad information are both good I think... It's not quite like buying a used car... The boat is just half the story, I think. You really have to make sure it's a lifestyle for you and to find that out I don't think there's any shortcut! 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a growing number of boats sold and then coming back to the market in a very short time span as the person/people buying just havnt done their homework on living off grid or realised just how different from living in bricks and mortar it is, even in a marina.

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1 hour ago, Dre said:

Especially boat forums ???

But really both good and bad information are both good I think... It's not quite like buying a used car... The boat is just half the story, I think. You really have to make sure it's a lifestyle for you and to find that out I don't think there's any shortcut! 

There are people who have never been on the canal and then buy a luxury widebeam, because they thought it looked great on the telly

There are people who ljve on a 20' cruiser because it is that or a bench

There are also people who have cheap leisure boats, because they like being on the canal. I spent half an hour bailing out today and another half talking to my mooring neighbours. It's a difficult hobby to explain to people who don't sail, but, well, boats rock!

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13 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

 It's a difficult hobby to explain to people who don't sail, but, well, boats rock!

Chatting to another boater whilst we were having our respective shit tanks pumped out, him and his other half were planning to take the boat out a few miles up the cut to moor near a good chippy and have a fish supper, wind and return the next day, back to work on the monday.

 

Try explaining to work how much you enjoyed your weekend, shit tank, few hours in a muddy ditch,  bag of chips and back again.

 

Mad, but your right, whatever you do, however you enjoy them boats rock :)

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