David Mack Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 I am looking to do some scumbling on Belfast. In the past I have used Ratcliffe's Oil Scumble over Ratcliffe's No.2 Chrome Buff undercoat, but neither of these products is now available. Nor is the Chrome Buff Macpherson's eggshell paint which was previously recommended by Decorating Direct as an alternative to the Ratcliffe's undercoat. For scumble I was proposing to use Polyvine oil-based scumble pre-coloured in light oak. But what should I use for undercoat? I would rather stick with oil based paints as some of the scumbling will be exposed to the weather, but a quick google around the paint manufacturers's websites suggests that oil based undercoat is now only available in white, grey or black. But none in chrome buff, or colour mixed to order. So what do people use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Paging Mr @dave moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard T Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Craftmaster do a cream undercoat which I used to do some scumbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Start with some oil based white or cream. Add artists oil paint (which is a sort of thick paste of oil and colour and comes in tubes) to taste. Stir really really well.Either ochre or burnt umber are probably suitable colourants, depending on what you want. Make plenty, you will never match the colour again? N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender151 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 What in the name of all that holy is scumble or ing, is this something else I need to add to my never ending ToDo list? I feel another sleepless night coming on!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Fender151 said: What in the name of all that holy is scumble or ing, is this something else I need to add to my never ending ToDo list? I feel another sleepless night coming on!!! It is the wood grain effect that is often painted on traditional style boats. An example being our rear doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender151 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Thank you Rob, nope, not on my ToDo list, but looks great, when it's done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Richard T said: Craftmaster do a cream undercoat which I used to do some scumbling. Yes, That's the way I would be thinking. If you buy an undercoat for one of the boat enamels, it will still be oil based, and certainly Craftmaster do a cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Fender151 said: What in the name of all that holy is scumble or ing, is this something else I need to add to my never ending ToDo list? I feel another sleepless night coming on!!! From one of John M Hill's books. Edited February 10, 2020 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 I use a deeper yellow undercoat than Ratcliffe’s Chrome Buff, usually Albany Amber U/c 10, oil based, from Brewers. Light oak scumble over it gives a honey coloured effect, as if the oil lamp is lit before it is. Craftmaster Clear varnish to follow for me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Edited February 10, 2020 by dave moore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fender151 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 They really are works of art, art and me go together like a rocket and a snail!!! I can and do appreciate it, thanks to all for the enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 48 minutes ago, dave moore said: That’s tremendous work Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, dave moore said: I wouldn't mind a piece of plank like this...………………………………….ummmmm……………………..hang on...…………………ummmmm……………looks familiar...…...ummmmmm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyhanger Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 17:00, Richard T said: Craftmaster do a cream undercoat which I used to do some scumbling. I used Craftmaster cream undercoat. It's not a million miles away from Chrome Buff in colour. Once it's grained you won't notice the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 I might....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyhanger Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 20:26, dave moore said: I might....... OK Dave, I know you would, but the general man in the street may not. Fabulous panel by the way. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 My better half used this as a base, i wasn't at all sure about the colour but the end result was nice. Was mixed by dulux if i remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 I have used a pale yellow emulsion before on interior stuff. seems to work OK . Practice on a bit of old ply and don't rock the rubber thingy too much or it looks awful. If you can't get a decent start and finish on the sunken panels of doors etc then maybe a 1/2" painted border of red or a painted colour is a good idea. Its the varnish that brings it to life so use a good one. Caution: I am not an expert (at all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 My personal taste is that scumbling, even when done really well, still looks 'orrible. If you want something that looks like wood, then have wood and protect it with varnish. If you want something that looks like wood but it's in a location where it needs protection from the elements, then wood probably is the wrong material, so use a better one. Form follows function, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbybass Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) I use a cheap cream undercoat. I then use cheap Wilco...WATER BASED...coloured varnish with a scumbling brush. Being water based,,,I can easily get it exactly as I want and if not I can use a damp cloth to wipe it off. Once dry...I varnish with clear varnish. Works for me. Edited February 17, 2020 by Bobbybass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAP Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 I use an oil based satin finish mixed close enough to chrome buff with light oak polyvine applied neat. Here are the results so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said: My personal taste is that scumbling, even when done really well, still looks 'orrible. If you want something that looks like wood, then have wood and protect it with varnish. If you want something that looks like wood but it's in a location where it needs protection from the elements, then wood probably is the wrong material, so use a better one. Form follows function, but that's just my opinion. I think you’ve missed the historical use of scumbling.....I love a scumbled back cabin....and my exterior scumble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 Be careful of the underlying paint brushstrokes. If you scumble across the brushstrokes and not with the brushstrokes, you can end up with something reminiscent of bamboo effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 Having read previous posts, I’d like to add a bit of background. Ratcliffe’s, the major scumble manufacturer, originally made only oil based scumbles intended for use on similar undercoats. They were taken over by Tor coatings, still producing oil based stuff with the Ratcliffe badge, until a clash with the Volatile Organic Compound regs, some time in the late 90s I think, led to the production of a water based product, still available today. Some painters swore by it, others at it. Personally, I’ve never tried it, but as others have said, it should sit well on water based undercoats. These days I buy clear scumble glaze from Polyvine and tint it myself with light oak stain, though they also produce a ready mixed light oak. All oil based and suiting this particular dinosaur. As said previously, a decent varnish is essential. My preference is for Craftmaster, though some yards have successfully used yacht varnishes by International or Johnson’s to varnish my work. Blackfriars is fine too. I heartily endorse earlier advice about the cautious use of a knotting rubber. It’s easy to get excited by the effect produced and I understand the temptation to use it randomly. The late Chris Lloyd, writing in Waterways World years ago, described the over use as “ Like rifle targets holding hands”, a most apt description to me. Would any decent joiner use timber riddled with knots? I doubt it..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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