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big d

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I've currently got hot water from a cauliflower heated by a back boiler of a bubble, it is great in winter and with a mixer tap great shower, warm and the rads and underfloor keep me toasty. I'm trying to come up with a way of having warm showers in summer when I'm not running bubble 24/7. I've got shore power if I need and also a 3.5kw inverter and enough solar and storage of power. I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed or go for a 3kw water heater as seen on the bay that does similar  job but I could use when not on mooring. Before all the calculators jump on. I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up and if you beg to differ my boat is powered by scoffs and disbelief.  Anyone done either thing, domestic unit or eBay 3kw heater ? 

 

Cheers

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Brassicas are a versatile food source, but they do generate  bodily gas, Cauliflowers heating water? Pray tell us the process, Methane to heat? Or more simply bloody unnoticed autocorrect once again?

Edited by DandV
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5 hours ago, big d said:

I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed

Domestic showers are either 7Kw or 11Kw, you would not be popular trying to run that of a 16 amp (about 4Kw) shoreline, if you didn't 'trip' the supply you would melt your cable.

 

If you install an electric shower then you will not get hot water at the taps for washing, pots etc.

Why not just use the immersion heater that will be (should be) already installed in your cauliflower ?

That will provide hot water exactly as the bubble currently does, will not require coal or diesel, not require a special shower and uses your existing electric supply, water supply (shower, hot & cold taps) and shower head.

 

What's not to like.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Domestic showers are either 7Kw or 11Kw, you would not be popular trying to run that of a 16 amp (about 4Kw) shoreline, if you didn't 'trip' the supply you would melt your cable.

 

Why not just use the immersion heater that will be (should be) already installed in your cauliflower ?

That will provide hot water exactly as the bubble currently does, will not require coal or diesel, not require a special shower and uses your existing electric supply, water supply and shower.

 

What's not to like.

 

The fact it will almost certainly destroy the batteries if used when away from shore power but then one hopes the engine will heat the calorifier.

 

For most boaters using an inverter to power any device that is designed to produce heat is asking for battery destruction but a few who really understander things can get away with it under very specific conditions.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The fact it will almost certainly destroy the batteries if used when away from shore power but then one hopes the engine will heat the calorifier.

 

For most boaters using an inverter to power any device that is designed to produce heat is asking for battery destruction but a few who really understander things can get away with it under very specific conditions.

 

Agree 100% but I (maybe wrongly) read the OPs explanation as being virtually a non-moving boat hooked up to the mains, and when he is not on the mooring :

 

5 hours ago, big d said:

I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up …………….

An 'all electric' boat ?

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5 hours ago, big d said:

I've currently got hot water from a cauliflower heated by a back boiler of a bubble, it is great in winter and with a mixer tap great shower, warm and the rads and underfloor keep me toasty. I'm trying to come up with a way of having warm showers in summer when I'm not running bubble 24/7. I've got shore power if I need and also a 3.5kw inverter and enough solar and storage of power. I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed or go for a 3kw water heater as seen on the bay that does similar  job but I could use when not on mooring. Before all the calculators jump on. I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up and if you beg to differ my boat is powered by scoffs and disbelief.  Anyone done either thing, domestic unit or eBay 3kw heater ? 

 

Cheers

I have recently installed an electric flow boiler. This uses a domestic style mid-position valve, cylinder-stat, room-stat and regular programmer (Danfoss). The flow boiler I'm using is a 6kW unit which I de-tuned to 3kW by disconnecting the second heating element (it has two 3kW elements). I have the hot water heated twice a day whilst the heating is on continuously with 3 radiators + towel rail. Once up to temperature, the boiler automatically cycles on and off to keep the heat flow constant. Works like a charm, basically fit and forget. 

It is also possible to get a 4kW unit so presumably one could de-tune to say 2kW with that one too.

Once winter is over I can just turn the room-stat down and the system will continue to provide hot water.

Will post a photo of my install if you're interested.

Stephen :)

 

I would just add that I have a 32A shore supply. Also this system by-passes the inverter as it would kill the batteries if power died. If away from the home mooring then I use the diesel heater or the engine. Unless you used a 2kW heater as I suggested above, you would be pushing it with a 16A shore supply.

https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/santon-electric-flow-boiler-6-kw/

 

102136_wl.jpg

 

Edited by Stephen Jeavons
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8 hours ago, big d said:

I've currently got hot water from a cauliflower heated by a back boiler of a bubble, it is great in winter and with a mixer tap great shower, warm and the rads and underfloor keep me toasty. I'm trying to come up with a way of having warm showers in summer when I'm not running bubble 24/7. I've got shore power if I need and also a 3.5kw inverter and enough solar and storage of power. I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed or go for a 3kw water heater as seen on the bay that does similar  job but I could use when not on mooring. Before all the calculators jump on. I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up and if you beg to differ my boat is powered by scoffs and disbelief.  Anyone done either thing, domestic unit or eBay 3kw heater ? 

 

Cheers

As you are on shore power an immersion is a no brainer if there is a boss in your cauliflower, if not you need to change the cauliflower to one with immersion capablities. Another very easy and cheap way would be to install such as a morco gas heater, I am hoping that your boat isnt  " Gas free " 

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Update: boats gas free, I had been looking into domestic shower and halving kw cost by disconnecting one element but hassle and even then most economical I could find was 5.5 down to 3 after mods. The calirifier doesn't have immersion so I will look into that as will be least (sort of) amount of plumbing and if new one needed easier to do as it's under bed and space to work. The boats an air cooled Lester sr2 engine so no warm water from there. It was designed to be an off grid boat so has 20 110amph batteries on board. I didn't design it but trying to get best out of it. Luckily it's the sort of problem that pops into my head at 3am and while it's still fire time not really pressing. Just trying to have a summer this year without the cold wake up shower, thanks for input and everyone's 2 cents. Also I don't like cauliflower and won't have it on boat ?

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14 minutes ago, big d said:

It was designed to be an off grid boat so has 20 110amph batteries on board. I didn't design it but trying to get best out of it.

Have you owned the boat very long ?

Its not the size of the battery bank that is important, it is how you can put back in what you have taken out that is critical.

 

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21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Have you owned the boat very long ?

Its not the size of the battery bank that is important, it is how you can put back in what you have taken out that is critical.

 

Coming up to 4 years, very abused boat as hadn't been left on cut for a year almost abandoned, when I bought it I had to go throughout all systems and wiring with a fine tooth comb (multimeter and ammeter) as families of rodents had made it home. Took a year to get all the solar (21) 70w panels and system happy. New inverter, endless woodwork, strip and clean bilges and metalwork, wielding and then normal care so only now getting around to improving on design. 

 

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51 minutes ago, big d said:

The calirifier doesn't have immersion

It is possible there is a boss for fitting an immersion heater buried under the insulation. If the calorifier is in a cupboard it is also possible, (law of sod says odds on), that it is hidden round the back so you can't get at it. A careful search may spot where it is so it can be excavated to fit a heater.

 

Some of us have fitted solar thermal hot water systems for the summer months.

Jen

 

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6 minutes ago, big d said:

Is your immersion 12v or 240v ? 

It takes the same amount of energy to heat a cauliflower full of water irrespective of it being 12v or 220v

 

A 1000w heater element is still 1000w 

 

I think the majority (if not all) Immersion heaters are 220v, but the wattage varies.

I have a 1000w on one boat and a 1200w on the other boat

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It takes the same amount of energy to heat a cauliflower full of water irrespective of it being 12v or 220v

 

A 1000w heater element is still 1000w 

 

I think the majority (if not all) Immersion heaters are 220v, but the wattage varies.

I have a 1000w on one boat and a 1200w on the other boat

I know it would take the same amount of energy, my point was efficiency, would a 12v running of batteries and solar be more efficient than a 240v running off inverter or shore power. There's pros and cons to both 

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I would suggest that a 240V one running from an inverter will be slightly less efficient because of the inverter but as far as I can see all the other options (including 240V off shoreline) will be as efficient as each other but this all depends upon what you think efficiency means. Efficiency really is about energy in and energy out, nothing about time or cost.

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2 minutes ago, big d said:

I know it would take the same amount of energy, my point was efficiency, would a 12v running of batteries and solar be more efficient than a 240v running off inverter or shore power. There's pros and cons to both 

The biggest 12v immersion heart element I have found is 600 watts, I think you'd be running it continuously to get enough warm water.

It takes me a good 2-3 hours with my 1000w element.

 

If you are running the Inverter anyway (to power the fridge or freezer) then there is little or no difference between the 12v or 220v efficiency.

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Inverter only used for cooker and ceramic hob, vaccume or kettle if I've forgotten to top up shore power, also the water pump system is 240v (water reclamation filtration) except that I'm all 12v. But think the time factor plays as 12v could be on all day off solar in summer but the ability to turn on 240 and have water faster plus wiring much easier I would think, right time to dig out the build files and if I can't find specs then it's a torch and a good dig arround 

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12 hours ago, big d said:

I've currently got hot water from a cauliflower heated by a back boiler of a bubble, it is great in winter and with a mixer tap great shower, warm and the rads and underfloor keep me toasty. I'm trying to come up with a way of having warm showers in summer when I'm not running bubble 24/7. I've got shore power if I need and also a 3.5kw inverter and enough solar and storage of power. I was thinking could I use shore power and install domestic electric shower off cold feed or go for a 3kw water heater as seen on the bay that does similar  job but I could use when not on mooring. Before all the calculators jump on. I have enough power when not on mooring to roast a dinner and I've enough to heat water up and if you beg to differ my boat is powered by scoffs and disbelief.  Anyone done either thing, domestic unit or eBay 3kw heater ? 

 

Cheers

Most domestic electric showers are 7kw so are a not suitable for a 16 amp shoreline supply.

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The reason most domestic showers are 7kW or more is to get the water hot enough at a reasonable flow rate. Most house type showers use about 10 litres of water per minute or more, you need to heat that from say 20 to 40 degrees which uses a lot of power. Derating a flow boiler or electric shower will reduce the amount of water it can heat per minute, so you can have a warm trickle or a cool shower. using an immersion heater allows you to have a tank full of hot water to have a nice shower with. There are methods of using the excess solar power, after your batteries are charged, to power an immersion heater either a 12 volt one or 240 via a dedicated inverter.

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