Sunday 9th Feb - the day has come for cheating?

[Guest]

I'm due to move cruising boat on Sunday (CRT advice* about doing it in the dark as an alternative as I've got some work on living boat happening Sat was 'don't'). 

 

No locks or winding on planned route and am moderately confident underway... Mostly unsure about moving off and mooring I think. Most experienced 'crew' will be a 6yr old who /can/ bow haul the boat in calm weather, but...

 

*informal advice in conversation as was getting some admin sorted abt something unrelated 

Edited February 7, 2020 by TheMenagerieAfloat

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'm due to move cruising boat on Sunday

I think you’d be best to either do it tomorrow or leave it a week. 40mph winds with 60mph gusts aren't a lot of fun to cruise in. 

[Arthur Marshall]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I think you’d be best to either do it tomorrow or leave it a week. 40mph winds with 60mph gusts aren't a lot of fun to cruise in. 

Especially in the dark, even with no locks. Otherwise, given decent wrather and a moon, night cruising is fine.

[ditchcrawler]

good early moon at the moment

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I think you’d be best to either do it tomorrow or leave it a week. 40mph winds with 60mph gusts aren't a lot of fun to cruise in. 

This

we get twitchy when gusts pass 40mph, right now the forcast is suggesting over 50mph in the midlands on Sunday and everyone is on standby, it's not really the weather to take a sewer tube on on the ditch.

Frankly I wouldn't go for a walk in the woods in that wind, never mind boating 

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

This

we get twitchy when gusts pass 40mph, right now the forcast is suggesting over 50mph in the midlands on Sunday and everyone is on standby, it's not really the weather to take a sewer tube on on the ditch.

Frankly I wouldn't go for a walk in the woods in that wind, never mind boating 

And I bet there will still be people mooring in the shelter of the trees

[Guest]

Right. So, options are a) move play boat tomorrow leaving new mattresses to be delivered to roof of new boat and hope they don't blow off or b) wait in for mattresses tomorrow and hope we aren't blown off cut cruising old boat Sunday or c) ask CRT for a few days over stay for cruising boat. 

 

Cruising boat is not in an overly desirable location or (I hope) particularly inconsideratly moored. So, maybe c) but pop by and tighten ropes? 

[tree monkey]

1 minute ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Right. So, options are a) move play boat tomorrow leaving new mattresses to be delivered to roof of new boat and hope they don't blow off or b) wait in for mattresses tomorrow and hope we aren't blown off cut cruising old boat Sunday or c) ask CRT for a few days over stay for cruising boat. 

 

Cruising boat is not in an overly desirable location or (I hope) particularly inconsideratly moored. So, maybe c) but pop by and tighten ropes? 

Personally I would stay put, even tomorrow could be difficult, if you have to move do it as early as you can.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'm due to move cruising boat on Sunday (CRT advice* about doing it in the dark as an alternative as I've got some work on living boat happening Sat was 'don't'). 

Don't do it.

You are responsible for deciding if the conditions are 'safe' & with 40-60 MPH winds for the next 5 days it will not be safe.

 

Any hassle from C&RT, just refer them to their own  Licence T&Cs

 

1. The Boat Licence does not give you any priority of passage on the Waterway. You must follow the directions of our local people who may decide which boats have priority.
2. You are responsible for assessing whether it is safe to use the Waterway in flood or strong stream conditions. Our Waterway offices may be able to assist. The most recent flood warnings can be obtained from the Environment Agency, either on the internet at http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/ or by telephone on 0845 988 1188 (minicom 0845 602 6340).
3. You must share locks up to their capacity. There is no right to the exclusive use of a lock.

[MtB]

I disagree with all them up there ^^^ .... cruising in 40mph winds is ENORMOUS fun!!!

 

But more seriously, I would suggest leaving your cruising boat where it is. Overstay if necessary, CRT will take at least a week to notice you should have moved but if you're worried, call them on Monday and tell them you didn't move due to excessively windy weather. They are very reasonable and co-operative when you call them, despite some of the views expressed on here from time to time.

 

 

[Trento]

They are very reasonable and co-operative when you call them, despite some of the views expressed on here from time to time.

 

That

[Guest]

My limited experience is that when I mentioned (entirely in passing) about wanting to double check which lights were required for night time cruising (I was due to move Sat but could only get mattresses delivered to other boat that day) they volunteered that overstay for safety would be fine. I have a spare white light but wasn't too sure if colours required on canals too.

 

I was only making small talk whilst we were 'on hold' finding out why Computer Was Saying You Don't Spell Menagerie That Way on voting forms and they volunteered. So, imagine they'd be very reasonable if the concern was. Just wasn't sure if single (and a small half) handing was likely to be an issue in predicted weather. Sounds like it might be so shall do a quick ropes check and leave it at that unless all mirror-like calm I think. 

 

Thanks all!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

My limited experience is that when I mentioned (entirely in passing) about wanting to double check which lights were required for night time cruising (I was due to move Sat but could only get mattresses delivered to other boat that day) they volunteered that overstay for safety would be fine. I have a spare white light but wasn't too sure if colours required on canals too.

Displaying of Lights and Visual Signals

10. (1) Subject as hereinafter provided, a power-driven vessel (other
than a narrow canal boat) when under way at night shall carry –
(a) On or in front of the foremast, or if a vessel without a foremast
then in the forepart of the vessel, and in either case at a height
above the hull of not less than four feet, a visible white light so
constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twenty points on the compass (225°) so fixed as to
show the light ten points (112½°) on each side of the vessel that
is, from right ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on either
side; and
(b) in addition to the above light, at her stern a visible white light
so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the
horizon of twelve points of the compass (135°) so fixed as to
show the light six points (67½°) from right astern on each side of
the vessel.
(2) A power-driven vessel, being a narrow canal boat, under way
at night shall display in the forepart of the vessel, where it can
best be seen and at a height above the deck or gunwhale or not
less than one foot, a visible white light.
(3) A power-driven vessel (other than a narrow canal boat) when
towing another vessel at night shall display:-
(a) Two visible white lights in a vertical line one over the other,
not less than three feet apart. Each of these lights shall be of the
same construction and character as the visible white light
prescribed in paragraph (1) (a) of this Bye-law and one of them
shall be carried in the same position as that light; and
(b) at the stern a visible white light of the same construction and
character as that prescribed in paragraph (1)(b) of this Bye-law.
(4) A vessel (other than a narrow canal boat and other than a
compartment boat on the Aire and Calder Navigation, the New
Junction Canal, or the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation)
being towed at night shall display at her stern a visble white light
similar in all respects to that prescribed in paragraph (1)(b) of this
Bye-law and, if more than one vessel is being towed, a similar
white light shall be displayed at the stern of each vessel of the
tow.
(5) On the Trent Navigation, the Weaver Navigation, the Aire and
Calder Navigation, the New Junction Canal and the Sheffield and
South Yorkshire Navigation (below Doncaster) a power-driven
vessel shall in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraphs (1),
(2), (3) and (4) as the case may be of this Bye-law display:-
(a) On the starboard side a visible green light so constructed as
to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points
of the compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right
ahead to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the starboard side.
(b) On the port side a visible red light so constructed as to show
an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of ten points of the
compass (112½°) so fixed as to show the light from right ahead
to two points (22½°) abaft the beam on the port side.
(6) On the Aire and Calder Navigation, the New Junction Canal
and the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation:-
(a)(i) Where a composite craft consists of a compartment tug
towing a train of compartment boats there shall be carried on the
said tug three visible white lights in a vertical line one over the
other not less than one foot apart, each of such lights being of the
same construction and character as the visible white light
prescribed in paragraph (1)(a) of this Bye-law and one of them
being carried in the position therein prescribed.
(ii) Every other composite craft shall carry in the forward part of
the leading vessel two visible white lights of the said construction
and character placed horizontally athwartships not less than two
feet above the deck and not less than two feet apart.
(b) The power-driven vessel of every composite craft shall carry
on the starboard side a visible green light and on the port side a
visible red light of the same construction and character as those
prescribed in paragraphs (5)(a) and (5)(b) of this Bye-law.
(c) The last vessel of every composite craft shall carry at the
stern a visible white light similar in every respect to the white light
prescribed in paragraph (1)(b) of this Bye-law.
(7) On the Trent Navigation, the Weaver Navigation, the Aire and
Calder Navigation, the New Junction Canal and the Sheffield and
South Yorkshire Navigation every vessel employed to mark the
position of a wreck or of any other obstruction shall exhibit where
the same may best be seen, by day a green flag and by night two
visible green lights, placed horizontally not less than six feet or
more than twelve feet apart, of such a character as to be capable
of being seen from all directions.
(8) On the Trent Navigation, the Weaver Navigation, the Aire and
Calder Navigation, the New Junction Canal and the Sheffield and
South Yorkshire Navigation every vessel aground in the fairway
or mid-channel and every vessel moored at any place (including
vessels comprised in a composite craft) shall by night display a
visible white light of such a character as to be capable of being
seen from all directions.
(9) Any vessel passing by day or by night through a tunnel
exceeding four hundred and forty yards in length shall display in
the forepart of the vessel a visible white light.
(10) A vessel while actually engaged on work of dredging, piling,
diving, or other works of repair or construction on any canal shall
display –
(a) by day, at right angles to the keel, and in a position visible to
vessels approaching from any direction, on that side of the vessel
on which work is proceeding or on which obstructions may be
present and on which vessels must not pass, a red metal square
of cruciform construction (a side of which measures not less than
eighteen inches) and on that side of the vessel which is clear of
obstruction and on which vessels may pass a white square
similar in construction and size to the said red square and
(b) by night, on the Trent Navigation, the Weaver Navigation, the
Aire and Calder Navigation the New Junction Canal and Sheffield
and South Yorkshire Navigation, three visible lights of such a
character as to be capable of being seen from all directions of
which two shall be white and one shall be red placed not less
than six feet apart in the form of an equilateral triangle with its
base athwartships and its apex uppermost. The uppermost of the
said lights shall be white and the said red light shall be placed at
the end of the base of the said triangle which is nearer to the side
of the vessel on which work is proceeding or on which
obstructions may be present and on which vessels must not
pass.

[Guest]

Both boats have fixed white (tunnel?)  light at the front which has sound sufficient most places then?

 

They also have coloured ones at the sides (which I'm yet to use and sounds like I won't). Cruising boat has extra emergency white light in case I forget which sequence of charming brass switches is required to operate front light or (again, sounds unlikely) need one astern. 

 

I'm using the same (unless specifically directed otherwise) for tunnels as for night (dusk only to date) aren't I? [edited to add : looks like I am (9)]

 

Oh, and thank you. That is really helpful! 

Edited February 7, 2020 by TheMenagerieAfloat

[Scholar Gypsy]

7 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Both boats have fixed white (tunnel?)  light at the front which has sound sufficient most places then?

 

They also have coloured ones at the sides (which I'm yet to use and sounds like I won't). Cruising boat has extra emergency white light in case I forget which sequence of charming brass switches is required to operate front light or (again, sounds unlikely) need one astern. 

 

I'm using the same (unless specifically directed otherwise) for tunnels as for night (dusk only to date) aren't I? [edited to add : looks like I am (9)]

 

Oh, and thank you. That is really helpful! 

Strictly speaking a steaming light is not the same as a tunnel light. The former is so you can be seen, the latter is to help you see. But I wouldn't bother too much about that - just beware of dazzling oncoming skippers (and keep a cabin light on?).

 

When I do night time cruising (mostly on isolated and very dark rivers) most of the time I just have nav lights, and let my eyes adjust to the dark. I have a hand held searchlight for the odd occasion when I need to work out if a clump of something ahead is a) weed b) a duck c) a fishing boat with no lights d) something else.

[NewCanalBoy]

Delay the delivery of the mattress ?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Strictly speaking a steaming light is not the same as a tunnel light. The former is so you can be seen, the latter is to help you see. But I wouldn't bother too much about that - just beware of dazzling oncoming skippers (and keep a cabin light on?)

How do you tell the difference? (Just out of interest). The lights on both boats are slightly different but I'm not sure how I'd know which was a tunnel one?  The rules @Alan de Enfieldposted talk about both lights being 'displayed' and 'visible' but not providing any visibility. (And surely you do want to be visible to others oncoming in a tunnel?) 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NewCanalBoy said:

Delay the delivery of the mattress ?

Currently have nothing besides camping mats for child (or me) to sleep on. Is not replacements for existing ones, the boat didn't come with any and beds are a different size. In fact we're also having the child bed delivered as that cabin doesn't even have a bed at present.

 

To be clear though, the dogs have two layers of reflective stuff insulated memory foam under their fluffy top beds inside new waterproof cases. So they're fine :-) 

[Sea Dog]

8 minutes ago, NewCanalBoy said:

Delay the delivery of the mattress ?

This is not a time for hasty decisions - I'd sleep on it.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

How do you tell the difference? (Just out of interest). The lights on both boats are slightly different but I'm not sure how I'd know which was a tunnel one?  The rules @Alan de Enfieldposted talk about both lights being 'displayed' and 'visible' but not providing any visibility. (And surely you do want to be visible to others oncoming in a tunnel?) 

 

My interpretation and the Colregs (italics)

 

You can display (have) a light on that is not 'visible'.

A light used as a navigation light has to be VISIBLE from a certain distance and over certain angles, ie 'an all round white light. must be visible from 360 degrees around the boat, Having an 'all round' white light in the bow, but when looked at from astern is hidden by the cabin, is not 'visible'

 

A coloured Navigation (side light) red and green sector lights must be visible from zero degrees (straight ahead) through an arc of the horizon that measures 112.5 degrees, that is from zero degrees right through to 22.5 degrees abaft of the beam.

The Navigation lights must be visible from a distance of 2 miles.

 

Regarding VISIBILITY, (assume you mean a light to enable you to see) a light is generally not used to 'see' with. There is normally sufficient moon / starlight to enable you to cruise without lights. Additional lights just 'blind' you to anything happening outside of the light beam.

It is useful to have a hand-held searchlight for close quarters maneuvering for mooring etc.

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

I agree with Alan. A tunnel light is normally quite a narrow beam. A steaming light much wider (normally 225 degrees, with a 135 degree light at the stern if you want one). 

 

Here's mine on a mast near the front of the boat. You can see the green nav light underneath it, the red is the other side of course. It's a bit too close to the white one, but I didn't want to make the mast too tall. [Photo courtesy Darren Green]

 

 

And here is my tunnel light contraption. I find it more useful at the back of the boat, as it illuminates the roof and you can see exactly where you are ....

 

 

[Guest]

Ah, see I'd understood that navigation lights were for making you visible (and I'm used to those from rowing on the Thames etc although have no intention of taking either flat bottomed boat there) but I wasn't sure what a tunnel light was. 

 

The regs (9) made it sound like you had to be visible from the front (which makes sense) but @Scholar Gypsy implied they were for giving you visibility... In theory then I'd use both my white navigation light (of which I only need one, and at the front, for normal canal boating, no all-round requirement for ditch crawling) and also a tunnel light (optional) to help me see in a tunnel if I wanted. 

 

Will have to have a play with the various white lights I have in the dark... 

Also, am not wanting to take the p with an over stay. Had check with CRT about lights as was thinking would need to move boat in dark today after deliveries and they suggested better to overstay until daylight tomorrow. So, am free to move boat tomorrow at their suggestion, but that was made 4weeks or so ago when delivery was arranged and before such high winds forecast. 

[Keeping Up]

Both for a tunnel light and also on canals as a night light I much prefer to use a fog lamp. In tunnels it doesn't dazzle an oncoming boat, and on canals it illuminates both banks clearly.

[tree monkey]

10 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Ah, see I'd understood that navigation lights were for making you visible (and I'm used to those from rowing on the Thames etc although have no intention of taking either flat bottomed boat there) but I wasn't sure what a tunnel light was. 

 

The regs (9) made it sound like you had to be visible from the front (which makes sense) but @Scholar Gypsy implied they were for giving you visibility... In theory then I'd use both my white navigation light (of which I only need one, and at the front, for normal canal boating, no all-round requirement for ditch crawling) and also a tunnel light (optional) to help me see in a tunnel if I wanted. 

 

Will have to have a play with the various white lights I have in the dark... 

Also, am not wanting to take the p with an over stay. Had check with CRT about lights as was thinking would need to move boat in dark today after deliveries and they suggested better to overstay until daylight tomorrow. So, am free to move boat tomorrow at their suggestion, but that was made 4weeks or so ago when delivery was arranged and before such high winds forecast. 

It is fairly calm at the moment but it is not taking the pee when the met office issues an amber alert, so don't worry, batten down the hatches

[Scholar Gypsy]

Sorry for any confusion. Here's a photo of some rowers in November.