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Big Eddie

Stalls

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Hello, I am looking at purchasing a boat fitted with a lister FR2 marine engine, the owners have told me that when the changeover levers are lowered the engine stalls.  Has anyone got any advice please. 

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Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier?  I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2.

If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss.

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Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier?  I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2.

If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss.

Decompression levers?

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4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier?  I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2.

If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss.

Decompression lever 

 

Eta.. ah Ray T got there first :)

Edited by Canal321

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Changeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about.

I believe "changeover lever" applies to a lever which allows some engines like older Listers to run with a choice of high or low compression, and I'm assuming the FR2 (which I am unfamiliar with) has such levers.

Lifting decompressors should stop the engine, (due to no compression!), but switching over a lever that changes the compression surely should not?Just


EDIT:  Just found this...


The description here confirms that large levers on the side are to change compression, and are not the decompressors, (which it says it also should have).

 

Are we talking about those two large levers on the side?

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/fr2pic.htm
 

Edited by alan_fincher

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

hangeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about.

 

Exactly, which is why I asked in post 2. 

 

I don't remember FR series engines having changeover levers but could be wrong. If the OP is lifting the decompression levers then these will obviously stop the engine.

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10 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Changeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about.

I believe "changeover lever" applies to a lever which allows some engines like older Listers to run with a choice of high or low compression, and I'm assuming the FR2 (which I am unfamiliar with) has such levers.

Lifting decompressors should stop the engine, (due to no compression!), but swiching over a levr that changes the compression surely should not?

yes that's the ones

 

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The FR2 has levers to change between low and high compression (unlike the JP which has handwheels). In the image below (which is an industrial engine but the marine is similar) the two ball-ended levers at the side of the engine are for the compression change-over, the decompressor lever is at the front of the rocker cover, slightly obscured by the water outlet next door to it. 

fr2.gif

 

 

 

From http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/fr2pic.htm

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2 minutes ago, Big Eddie said:

yes that's the ones

 

So we need someone who knows FR2s, but I would say if it stalls on one of the compressions it doesn't sound right.

Moomin Papa's boat may have an FR, I think?

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It was intended that high compression is used for starting and light running, but low compression used when running hard. Quite a number of FRs and JPs used in narrowboats have had the changeover valves welded up and they run in high compression all the time.

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3 hours ago, Big Eddie said:

The engine runs fine with the changeover levers in the up position.

 

 

If the engine runs fine in the high compression position, I'd have thought the problem was more likely to be the valve rather than the engine, probably caused by lack of use.

The Lister CS coupled to the air start compressor aboard HATFIELD has a similar valve.  It never sees any use as the engine starts without the need for low compression but if I ever needed to use it, it wouldn't surprise if the lack of use of the valve caused issues.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

 

If the engine runs fine in the high compression position, I'd have thought the problem was more likely to be the valve rather than the engine, probably caused by lack of use.

The Lister CS coupled to the air start compressor aboard HATFIELD has a similar valve.  It never sees any use as the engine starts without the need for low compression but if I ever needed to use it, it wouldn't surprise if the lack of use of the valve caused issues.

 

 

Thanks

 

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It was fairly common for the changeover valves to leak, normally when going from low compression back to high.  If stopped soon after the result was often a non-start next time out due to lack of compression.  Hence most folk allowed the engine to idle a while and seal the valve in with carbon, before shutting down.  It was also usual IME for the FR's to need  the cylinders primed before starting ( lid off, squirt some diesel or light oil  in the air manifold, don't over do it or you bend a rod) .

 

In Big Eddies case there appears to be a low compression fault, or possibly it is being changed over before it is thoroughly warm.  Does the engine keep going with  No 1 in high and No2 only in low?  Is the same the other way round?   Has the changeover been tried whilst the engine is working hard?

 

As others have said no-one much uses low compression for canal work, so it is not really a concern provided the engine is running well in high.

 

N

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Would a very low tickover speed have anything to do with the problem?

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17 hours ago, Big Eddie said:

Thanks every one for your replies, it's much appreciated.

FR owner here. The valves have two seats, one for high compression and one for low. It sounds like the high compression seats are leaking, giving lack of compression when the levers are put down into the  high compression position. FR changeover valves have a bit of a reputation for leaking.  They can be removed for re-cutting, but it requires a couple of special tools and can be tricky if they've been in for a while. RWLP of this parish has the tools and should be able to sort you out if needed,

 

On our engine, they have been welded up in high compression, and we've never had any problems with it like that, The engine starts first (electric) push even in cold weather without needing oil priming or other messing.

 

What type of water pump does the engine have?

 

MP.

 

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36 minutes ago, Big Eddie said:

I don't know what type of water pump it has, It also has a massive oil tank, is that necessary?

Define necessary. It has a massive oil tank because it's set up for a dry sump. They came in both wet and dry sump varieties, so it could be converted by swapping the oil pump and sump casting. You can't safely remove the tank without doing that. If the tank a Lister one made of copper? They are a thing of great beauty.

 

These engines came in many varieties, including the cooling system, which is why I asked about the water pump.

 

MP.

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It is a copper tank with what looks like brass fittings, and would guess it could easily hold 25 30 ltr

Edited by Big Eddie

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