Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Hello, I am looking at purchasing a boat fitted with a lister FR2 marine engine, the owners have told me that when the changeover levers are lowered the engine stalls. Has anyone got any advice please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Don't buy it!! But more seriously, what do you mean by 'changeover levers'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier? I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2. If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Just now, Arthur Marshall said: Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier? I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2. If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss. Decompression levers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Yes, they are the levers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canal321 Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: Would these be the wotsit lifters on the cylinders that you can hoick up to make starting easier? I can't even remember what the proper name for them is, and mine have been disconnected for the last ten years anyway, though mine's an SR2 not an FR2. If so, and you have to hoick them to start and then unhoick them to run and it stalls, there's something amiss. Decompression lever Eta.. ah Ray T got there first Edited February 7, 2020 by Canal321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 The engine runs fine with the changeover levers in the up position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Changeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about. I believe "changeover lever" applies to a lever which allows some engines like older Listers to run with a choice of high or low compression, and I'm assuming the FR2 (which I am unfamiliar with) has such levers. Lifting decompressors should stop the engine, (due to no compression!), but switching over a lever that changes the compression surely should not?Just EDIT: Just found this... The description here confirms that large levers on the side are to change compression, and are not the decompressors, (which it says it also should have). Are we talking about those two large levers on the side?http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/fr2pic.htm Edited February 7, 2020 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 The Changeover levers switches between high & low compression, when the levers are set to low, the engine stalls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: hangeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about. Exactly, which is why I asked in post 2. I don't remember FR series engines having changeover levers but could be wrong. If the OP is lifting the decompression levers then these will obviously stop the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: Changeover levers are surely not the same as decompression levers, so we need to be clear which you are talking about. I believe "changeover lever" applies to a lever which allows some engines like older Listers to run with a choice of high or low compression, and I'm assuming the FR2 (which I am unfamiliar with) has such levers. Lifting decompressors should stop the engine, (due to no compression!), but swiching over a levr that changes the compression surely should not? yes that's the ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 The FR2 has levers to change between low and high compression (unlike the JP which has handwheels). In the image below (which is an industrial engine but the marine is similar) the two ball-ended levers at the side of the engine are for the compression change-over, the decompressor lever is at the front of the rocker cover, slightly obscured by the water outlet next door to it. From http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ListerData/fr2pic.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Big Eddie said: yes that's the ones So we need someone who knows FR2s, but I would say if it stalls on one of the compressions it doesn't sound right. Moomin Papa's boat may have an FR, I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 It was intended that high compression is used for starting and light running, but low compression used when running hard. Quite a number of FRs and JPs used in narrowboats have had the changeover valves welded up and they run in high compression all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeping Up Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Yes definitely the FR series had levers to change from high to low compression and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB Esk Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Big Eddie said: The engine runs fine with the changeover levers in the up position. If the engine runs fine in the high compression position, I'd have thought the problem was more likely to be the valve rather than the engine, probably caused by lack of use. The Lister CS coupled to the air start compressor aboard HATFIELD has a similar valve. It never sees any use as the engine starts without the need for low compression but if I ever needed to use it, it wouldn't surprise if the lack of use of the valve caused issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, NB Esk said: If the engine runs fine in the high compression position, I'd have thought the problem was more likely to be the valve rather than the engine, probably caused by lack of use. The Lister CS coupled to the air start compressor aboard HATFIELD has a similar valve. It never sees any use as the engine starts without the need for low compression but if I ever needed to use it, it wouldn't surprise if the lack of use of the valve caused issues. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 It was fairly common for the changeover valves to leak, normally when going from low compression back to high. If stopped soon after the result was often a non-start next time out due to lack of compression. Hence most folk allowed the engine to idle a while and seal the valve in with carbon, before shutting down. It was also usual IME for the FR's to need the cylinders primed before starting ( lid off, squirt some diesel or light oil in the air manifold, don't over do it or you bend a rod) . In Big Eddies case there appears to be a low compression fault, or possibly it is being changed over before it is thoroughly warm. Does the engine keep going with No 1 in high and No2 only in low? Is the same the other way round? Has the changeover been tried whilst the engine is working hard? As others have said no-one much uses low compression for canal work, so it is not really a concern provided the engine is running well in high. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 Thanks every one for your replies, it's much appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 Would a very low tickover speed have anything to do with the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 No,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 17 hours ago, Big Eddie said: Thanks every one for your replies, it's much appreciated. FR owner here. The valves have two seats, one for high compression and one for low. It sounds like the high compression seats are leaking, giving lack of compression when the levers are put down into the high compression position. FR changeover valves have a bit of a reputation for leaking. They can be removed for re-cutting, but it requires a couple of special tools and can be tricky if they've been in for a while. RWLP of this parish has the tools and should be able to sort you out if needed, On our engine, they have been welded up in high compression, and we've never had any problems with it like that, The engine starts first (electric) push even in cold weather without needing oil priming or other messing. What type of water pump does the engine have? MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 I don't know what type of water pump it has, It also has a massive oil tank, is that necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 36 minutes ago, Big Eddie said: I don't know what type of water pump it has, It also has a massive oil tank, is that necessary? Define necessary. It has a massive oil tank because it's set up for a dry sump. They came in both wet and dry sump varieties, so it could be converted by swapping the oil pump and sump casting. You can't safely remove the tank without doing that. If the tank a Lister one made of copper? They are a thing of great beauty. These engines came in many varieties, including the cooling system, which is why I asked about the water pump. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Eddie Posted February 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) It is a copper tank with what looks like brass fittings, and would guess it could easily hold 25 30 ltr Edited February 8, 2020 by Big Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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