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Alan de Enfield

First Two Cases Of Coronavirus Confirmed in UK

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

It's a very big place with lots of people living in close quarters and often in close proximity to animals, not that surprising 

I suspect it is also to do with climate too but it is a puzzle.

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2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

The bit I couldn't understand was why they landed them at Brize Norton, couldn't they have come to an agreement to land them at the Airbus airfield at Broughton with just a short trip to the Wirral?

The runway at Broughton is way too short to land even a lightly laden 747, never mind take it off again.  They could have used Manchester, but presumably they wanted to use a military base.

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1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You need to realise that we have no control over the Chinese Quarantine process. It would appear that you would be quite content for the country that hasn't contained the virus (China) to quarantine UK citizens on our behalf and then send them back to freely mix with the UK population, you haven't really thought this through have you?:unsure:

you need to realise that any acceptable quarantine process would require close UK monitoring and supervision, otherwise as you say the exercise would be pointless.   It ain't rocket science.

 

you haven't really thought this through have you?    :banghead:

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9 minutes ago, john6767 said:

The runway at Broughton is way too short to land even a lightly laden 747, never mind take it off again.  They could have used Manchester, but presumably they wanted to use a military base.

That's interesting about Broughton, that means the beluga has a relatively short take off and landing requirements then, that's counterintuitive, at least to me

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5 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

That's interesting about Broughton, that means the beluga has a relatively short take off and landing requirements then, that's counterintuitive, at least to me

Airbus Beluga Vs Boeing Dreamlifter

The Airbus Beluga can carry 47,000 kg (103,617 lb) in a typical load, with a volume of 1,500 m3 (53,000 cu ft). It has a range of 2,779 km (1,727 mi, 1,501 nmi) with 40 t (88,000 lb) payload – 4,632 km (2,501 nmi) with 26 t (57,000 lb) payload.

 

There is actually a bigger version of the Beluga called the XL that has an improved size (based on the A330-200) of 2,209 m3 (78,000 cu ft) volume and a range of 4,300 km (2,600 mi, 2,300 nmi) at the max payload.

 

The Boeing Dreamlifter, however, has a volume of 65,000 cubic feet (1,840 cubic meters) and the maximum payload capacity is 250,000 lb (113,400 kg). It also has a range of 4,200 nmi (4,800 mi; 7,800 km).

 

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-beluga-vs-boeing-dreamlifter/

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Thought it was interesting that in the interests of patient confidentiality, we are not allowed to know who these 2 people are who have the virus.

That means that anyone who may have been in contact with them has no way to be informed and act accordingly - they are the ultimate 'mystery customers'.

What happened to the needs of the many?

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

That's interesting about Broughton, that means the beluga has a relatively short take off and landing requirements then, that's counterintuitive, at least to me

I do admit I suspected it was short, but had to look it up.  It is around 2000ft, Birmingham for example is 10,000 ft which is about what you need to take off a fully laden 747.  Of course this one was lightly loaded with 200 on board, and presumably it would be taking off empty, but 2,000 seems well short of what is needed.

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11 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

you need to realise that any acceptable quarantine process would require close UK monitoring and supervision, otherwise as you say the exercise would be pointless.   It ain't rocket science.

 

you haven't really thought this through have you?    :banghead:

And you think China is going to accept the UK dictating the terms of monitoring and supervision? When in China you do as the Chinese tell you. As far as the Chinese are concerned, the potential for our citizens to become ill with the virus isn't really their problem, it's ours, (they already have the virus in their country so all they can now try to do is limit the spread) which is why it is reasonable for the UK Government to repatriate our citizens to the UK to be quarantined here. I don't think 'outsourcing' the quarantine process to a country that hasn't managed to contain the virus is a sensible option, even if quarantined in China I would still prefer that they were quarantined once they reach the UK so I'd say the UK Government have acted sensibly here. But if you would prefer outsourcing our health security then so be it, you will probably be in a minority of one.

 

The only real weakness in our quarantine arrangements is the voluntary nature of it, I would have thought that the COBRA meeting could have suggested some ad hoc emergency legislation to ensure that the quarantine was mandatory, much the same as the Foot and Mouth Disease Order of 2006. At the moment if someone gets fed up watching daytime TV, playing pool and drinking tea whilst in quarantine there is nothing to stop them walking out of the quarantine facilities. One would expect that all reasonable people will comply but then legislation is usually brought in to deal with the unreasonable people and I would bet that after about a week or so someone is going to be saying," I'm fine, I've got no symptoms, I have to get back to work so I want to leave now" and whilst I don't doubt the quarantine facility staff will do everything they can to prevent them leaving, legally, at the moment, they have no means of forcing them to remain.

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7 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I do admit I suspected it was short, but had to look it up.  It is around 2000ft, Birmingham for example is 10,000 ft which is about what you need to take off a fully laden 747.  Of course this one was lightly loaded with 200 on board, and presumably it would be taking off empty, but 2,000 seems well short of what is needed.

Metres, shirley.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Metres, shirley.

 

 

Nope ft, and don’t call me Shirley

 

http://www.ukairfields.org.uk/runway-lengths.html

 

edited, yep you are right Broughton is 2,000m, dam all these units, so about 6,000ft, still quite short.

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes/belugaxl-arrives-in-uk-for-tests-at-broughton-wing-plant/131403.article

 

Edited by john6767

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6 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 When But if you would prefer outsourcing our health security then so be it, you will probably be in a minority of one.

 

Actually, I believe the Conservatives got quite a majority in the recent election.

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29 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

And you think China is going to accept the UK dictating the terms of monitoring and supervision? When in China you do as the Chinese tell you. As far as the Chinese are concerned, the potential for our citizens to become ill with the virus isn't really their problem, it's ours, (they already have the virus in their country so all they can now try to do is limit the spread) which is why it is reasonable for the UK Government to repatriate our citizens to the UK to be quarantined here. I don't think 'outsourcing' the quarantine process to a country that hasn't managed to contain the virus is a sensible option, even if quarantined in China I would still prefer that they were quarantined once they reach the UK so I'd say the UK Government have acted sensibly here. But if you would prefer outsourcing our health security then so be it, you will probably be in a minority of one.

 

The only real weakness in our quarantine arrangements is the voluntary nature of it, I would have thought that the COBRA meeting could have suggested some ad hoc emergency legislation to ensure that the quarantine was mandatory, much the same as the Foot and Mouth Disease Order of 2006. At the moment if someone gets fed up watching daytime TV, playing pool and drinking tea whilst in quarantine there is nothing to stop them walking out of the quarantine facilities. One would expect that all reasonable people will comply but then legislation is usually brought in to deal with the unreasonable people and I would bet that after about a week or so someone is going to be saying," I'm fine, I've got no symptoms, I have to get back to work so I want to leave now" and whilst I don't doubt the quarantine facility staff will do everything they can to prevent them leaving, legally, at the moment, they have no means of forcing them to remain.

who said we would dictate anything?  if the process was not acceptable to UK monitors then it wouldn't suffice - period.

 

you seem to have strong opinions of the Chinese - do you have any personal experience of the people or the country?   

 

whether or not they would be quarantined upon their return to the UK it seems ridiculous to expose 200 people on a plane to possible infection without first doing your best to limit the chance of just one passenger having the virus..  How on earth do you keep people from infecting each other and the crew in such a confined environment with forced air circulation.

 

do you know for a fact that there will be no proper security in place at the UK quarantine hospital?  If what you say is correct then the Chinese system would be miles ahead because they wouldn't be concerned about your 'uman rites to walk out when it suits you. 

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37 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Google seems to show about 3,000 ft without going right to the very end.

 

image.png.16ae9da88693aaeec35554be3b2e04a8.png

I had edited the post, I was wrong it is 2000m, ie 6000ft.

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31 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I had edited the post, I was wrong it is 2000m, ie 6000ft.

Just over 6500 in reality 1/6 longer than 6000.

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Do you think the driver is hoping for a 2 week holiday in quarantine?

 

I saw this on facebook and someone asked - did you zoom in as I did to see if it said Horseman of the Apocalypse?

 

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

 

Edited by journeyperson

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1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

And you think China is going to accept the UK dictating the terms of monitoring and supervision? When in China you do as the Chinese tell you. As far as the Chinese are concerned, the potential for our citizens to become ill with the virus isn't really their problem, it's ours, (they already have the virus in their country so all they can now try to do is limit the spread) which is why it is reasonable for the UK Government to repatriate our citizens to the UK to be quarantined here. I don't think 'outsourcing' the quarantine process to a country that hasn't managed to contain the virus is a sensible option, even if quarantined in China I would still prefer that they were quarantined once they reach the UK so I'd say the UK Government have acted sensibly here. But if you would prefer outsourcing our health security then so be it, you will probably be in a minority of one.

 

The only real weakness in our quarantine arrangements is the voluntary nature of it, I would have thought that the COBRA meeting could have suggested some ad hoc emergency legislation to ensure that the quarantine was mandatory, much the same as the Foot and Mouth Disease Order of 2006. At the moment if someone gets fed up watching daytime TV, playing pool and drinking tea whilst in quarantine there is nothing to stop them walking out of the quarantine facilities. One would expect that all reasonable people will comply but then legislation is usually brought in to deal with the unreasonable people and I would bet that after about a week or so someone is going to be saying," I'm fine, I've got no symptoms, I have to get back to work so I want to leave now" and whilst I don't doubt the quarantine facility staff will do everything they can to prevent them leaving, legally, at the moment, they have no means of forcing them to remain.

Which is why they should not have been brought back in the first place, although the fact 1500 have already arrived in the U.K. before the travel ban was put in place, is rather like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

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31 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Just over 6500 in reality 1/6 longer than 6000.

Not 1/6. 

 

Simple approximate metres to feet conversion is multiply by 3 then add 10 percent. 

 

So 2 x 3 is 6 then add 0.6. 

 

Which makes 2,000m about 6,600ft. 

 

 

 

3.28 being the exact metre/ft conversion figure but 3.3 is easier to work with due to the simple ten percent bit. 

Edited by magnetman
Typo

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2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Not 1/6. 

 

Simple approximate metres to feet conversion is multiply by 3 then add 10 percent. 

 

So 2 x 3 is 6 then add 0.6. 

 

Which makes 2,00m about 6,600ft. 

 

3.28 being the exact figure. 

not !!    :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

who said we would dictate anything?  if the process was not acceptable to UK monitors then it wouldn't suffice - period.

 

you seem to have strong opinions of the Chinese - do you have any personal experience of the people or the country?   

 

whether or not they would be quarantined upon their return to the UK it seems ridiculous to expose 200 people on a plane to possible infection without first doing your best to limit the chance of just one passenger having the virus..  How on earth do you keep people from infecting each other and the crew in such a confined environment with forced air circulation.

 

do you know for a fact that there will be no proper security in place at the UK quarantine hospital?  If what you say is correct then the Chinese system would be miles ahead because they wouldn't be concerned about your 'uman rites to walk out when it suits you. 

I would suggest that a country that is quite content to abduct the head of Interpol (even though he was Chinese) probably isn't a country to try to mess with. I have no real issue with the Chinese people themselves but when in China you do what the Chinese Government tell you. Don't believe me? try engaging a Chinese person in Bejing in conversation regarding their views on Taiwan or the Dalai Lama and see where it gets you. This is where the failure to dictate terms of quarantine comes in. The Chinese are running their own programme for quarantine, do you really think they will give a tinker's cuss as to what the UK 'monitors' may or may not think?

 

I assume that you haven't watched any reports of the outbreak, if you had you may have noticed that a lot of people seem to have been wearing face masks. These may be of limited value in preventing aerosol virus infecting people, but one would hope that they are a lot better at preventing people breathing out infection, otherwise what would be the purpose of surgical staff bothering to wear them in sterile operating theatres. Those travelling on the aircraft would have been wearing them.

 

What the level of security at the hospitals is has no relevance if there is (currently) no emergency legislation to make quarantine mandatory since you could make it as secure as Belmarsh if you wish, but if you have no legal right to hold someone there they can still just walk out. Yes, the Chinese do things differently, but they still haven't contained the virus, and you seem to want to outsource our health security to them, unwise would be putting it mildly.

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