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Dai Molly II

Decisions decisions, A power question, washing related

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Candy + Victron 1600, cold wash only, LPG tumble dryer, much too much washing for one of those toy twin tub thingies.

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RAM, Do you use on cold wash or all temps?  Seems a 2000 watt inverter may be enough.  Still tempted with the £100 twin tub as an experiment

Edited by Dai Molly II

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I, or should I say the wife, have both hot and cold feeds in use. We also have 4 x 110 amp domestic batteries, and only use the machine when the engine is running, usually when cruising. No experience on the twin tub so can't comment.

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We have the zanussi compact. No problem running it from our Mastervolt 2500w Combi inverter, but it is less keen to start from the TravelPower (quite happy on the Travelpower once it’s going though) so I’d agree it is a bit sensitive to waveform.

 

The 1600w is only when it is heating the water during the wash cycle, the rest of the time it doesn’t use much. So if necessary we don’t mind stopping the engine once the wash is complete, and letting it run from batteries for rinses and spins.

Edited by nicknorman

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We have the Candy 4kg and run it with a 2000w  pure sine wave low frequency inverter which can handle the motor start up loads with ease. I plumbed hot and cold together with a mixing valve so can select any temperature from very hot to cold to feed in and set the machine to cold wash so it is not using the heating element. On a sunny day I can run it on solar but usually do the washing when cruising to have endless hot water. Seems like a good machine and certainly beats trudging to the laundromat.

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Thanks for the info, seems it is a bit of a risk trying to get the right machine with the right inverter and more.  Could be an expensive gamble as well, food for thought.....

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We have used a Zanussi KWC 1300 for many years on an 1800w cheap but pure sine inverter with no problems.

The only anomaly is the washer will keep starting to spin at the end of the cycle  unless I leave a lamp on to keep the inverter out of power save mode.  The washer uses insufficient power as it waits to spin which allows the inverter to go to sleep.

The element will come on if the water temperature going in is lower than the wash temperature. So ours has a thermostatic blending valve set to around 45 degrees output on the hot and cold feeds and if we wash at 40 degrees the heater stays off providing there is sufficient hot water in the calorifier. Rinsing in hot water gets the clothes really clean without shrinking.

My friend had the same washer on a Victron inverter and he too had to leave a lamp on but it is not a problem then.

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12 hours ago, Dai Molly II said:

I must admit am starting to lean towards a try of the twin tub, a small gamble of under £100 or nearly £1000 and lots of work!! 🤔🤔 Seems the twin tub will do almost anything bar a duvet cover.  Can soon find a laundrette for that, will fit in the shower tray to run and empty.  thanks for usrful input 👍👍

It is worth keeping an eye on eBay, Shpock and the like for a second hand one close enough for you to pick it up.

 

There are a couple on there around the £30-£40 mark:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=twin+tub&_sacat=0&_sop=15

 

If you spend £50 on a second hand one and find you don't get on with it then you are likely to recoup most of your money when you re-sell it.

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I run my washing machine from a genny.  You seem to already have a suitable genny so what's the problem?  This is a no brainer surely?

 

I used to have one of those portable twin tub things.  They are not a replacement for a proper washing machine for a liveaboard.  They are designed for occasional camping type use.  They don't get things as clean in the long run. You can't properly rinse with them so end up with increasing amounts of residues.  They are labour intensive.  The washing tub is too small for many larger items even on their own. 

 

I would buy a proper washing machine 6kg load or more.

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13 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I run my washing machine from a genny.  You seem to already have a suitable genny so what's the problem?  This is a no brainer surely?

 

I used to have one of those portable twin tub things.  They are not a replacement for a proper washing machine for a liveaboard.  They are designed for occasional camping type use.  They don't get things as clean in the long run. You can't properly rinse with them so end up with increasing amounts of residues.  They are labour intensive.  The washing tub is too small for many larger items even on their own. 

 

I would buy a proper washing machine 6kg load or more.

I have to disagree with some of your points.

 

While I accept they do require you to spend time doing the washing it isn't exactly hard labour? I actually find I quite enjot getting involved in doing the laundry again after decades of owning an automatic. Of course the last time I had a single tub washing machine I was in bricks and morter with a bucket of terry towling nappies that needed my attention each day so, as there are just the two of us now it's quite a different scenario

 

No they don't take large items like bedlinen but they will wash a pair of jeans perfectly well and get them clean so long as you do not overload the drum (the same applies to an automatic - it just has a larger drum) The thing about washing large items on board a boat is trying to find a place to dry large items on a boat and so a trip to a launderette with the bedlinen and the larger towels and get them dried while you are there is a great option.

 

I do not understand why you can't properly rinse?

 

I sort my washing into lighter coloured stuff going through to gradually darker and dirtier stuff and set out with a drum of good warm water with the correct amount of detergent.

I start off putting the light coloured smalls in with perhaps a short to make up a load if required and let it agitate for 10 minutes. Then I remove them to the spinner placing a recepticle under the drain pipe to catch the warm soapy water. At this point the next items go in and start washing.  I give the first load a good spin, return the captured water to the washing drum and rinse them in the sink. I then return them to spin.

At this point the second load will have been agitating for 10 minutes and so I repeat the process until the washing is all done.

Depending on the amount of washing I may find I need to top up the drum with some warm water and some additional detergent for further loads but the rinsing is dependent upon my own eyes seeing the water running clear in the bowl and so if the laundry is not rinsed properly it has nothing to do with the performance of the machine.

 

 

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We just chuck the washing in the Zanussi with some detergent, turn it on and walk away. When it’s done we stick it in the tumble drier (all whilst cruising etc). Then it is clean and dry and ready for the cupboard. The Zanussi isn’t huge but it can, for example, easily take the duvet cover, fitted sheet and 6 pillowcases from the bed in one go.

 

I suppose it depends on what you want out of boating, but for us it isn’t some wild camping trip on water.

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Just now, nicknorman said:

 

 

I suppose it depends on what you want out of boating, but for us it isn’t some wild camping trip on water.

It also depends on the depth of your pockets and your priorities on how you want to spend the money as well as the space available to you on board and how you prioritise that.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, cheshire~rose said:

It also depends on the depth of your pockets and your priorities on how you want to spend the money as well as the space available to you on board and how you prioritise that.

 

Yes of course, but in the financial context of a mid range leisure narrowboat a washing machine is a pretty trivial cost. As to space, that’s why we went for a compact washer and dryer. The dryer is in a “lost corner” under the sink  (U shaped galley) and thus slightly awkward to get to, but a good use of that space IMO.

 

The dryer was around £150. Launderettes aren't cheap and I think we have recovered the dryer’s cost many times over the past 9 years, even before the convenience &  “time is money” concept are considered.

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Thanks all interesting views and comments, many valid points of view and lots of information on the this washer works with this as well.  I think, having slept on it overnight, will try the twin tub as a simple solution for the moment see how we get on when on our first six week trip then revisit the higher cost (and substantial boat alterations) option.  Still interested in views and info, thanks again

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4 minutes ago, Dai Molly II said:

Thanks all interesting views and comments, many valid points of view and lots of information on the this washer works with this as well.  I think, having slept on it overnight, will try the twin tub as a simple solution for the moment see how we get on when on our first six week trip then revisit the higher cost (and substantial boat alterations) option.  Still interested in views and info, thanks again

 

You Know It makes Sense.png

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8 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

We have used a Zanussi KWC 1300 for many years on an 1800w cheap but pure sine inverter with no problems.

The only anomaly is the washer will keep starting to spin at the end of the cycle  unless I leave a lamp on to keep the inverter out of power save mode.  The washer uses insufficient power as it waits to spin which allows the inverter to go to sleep.

The element will come on if the water temperature going in is lower than the wash temperature. So ours has a thermostatic blending valve set to around 45 degrees output on the hot and cold feeds and if we wash at 40 degrees the heater stays off providing there is sufficient hot water in the calorifier. Rinsing in hot water gets the clothes really clean without shrinking.

My friend had the same washer on a Victron inverter and he too had to leave a lamp on but it is not a problem then.

Sam, thanks for this, do you more details on the blending valve thingy?, thanks

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14 hours ago, nicknorman said:

We have the zanussi compact. No problem running it from our Mastervolt 2500w Combi inverter, but it is less keen to start from the TravelPower (quite happy on the Travelpower once it’s going though) so I’d agree it is a bit sensitive to waveform.

 

The 1600w is only when it is heating the water during the wash cycle, the rest of the time it doesn’t use much. So if necessary we don’t mind stopping the engine once the wash is complete, and letting it run from batteries for rinses and spins.

Probably not waveform as the Travelpower is pretty good, except for just a little high frequency stuff at its switching frequency. I think the Travelpower voltage is quite low, at least on the old black box version, I assume its because it has its roots in Sweden which was probably a 220v country?  Its voltage also drops further under load at reasonable engine speeds.  Our washing machine goes into a pause mode when the voltage dips, and nicely resumes when the volts come back up.

 

...............Dave

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34 minutes ago, dmr said:

Probably not waveform as the Travelpower is pretty good, except for just a little high frequency stuff at its switching frequency. I think the Travelpower voltage is quite low, at least on the old black box version, I assume its because it has its roots in Sweden which was probably a 220v country?  Its voltage also drops further under load at reasonable engine speeds.  Our washing machine goes into a pause mode when the voltage dips, and nicely resumes when the volts come back up.

 

...............Dave

Yes it is around 220v. Or of course it could be something to do with it being a centre tapped supply. When on the TP sometimes it just won’t start, ie the start light doesn’t flash asking to be pressed. So we start it on the Combi and then as soon as it starts to fill, we switch it over to the TP whence it’s quite happy.

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17 hours ago, Dai Molly II said:

Hmmm seems this is not as easy as I thought, is there a list anywhere of what works with what.  Anyone got a Candy and which inverter do they have?  Thanks to all that have commented.

I've got a Candy, a Mastervolt 60/2000 combi, 4 x 130ah battery bank and a Pagura 4000 generator. I can run the W/M off either inverter, with engine running or generator. The downside of the Candy is it's spin speed of 1000 rpm, lower than the Zanussi but it's capacity at 3.5 kilo is slightly more  

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18 hours ago, Dai Molly II said:

Hmmm seems this is not as easy as I thought, is there a list anywhere of what works with what.  Anyone got a Candy and which inverter do they have?  Thanks to all that have commented.

Hi 

We have a 4kg Candy Aquamatic 1042D on board, runs off our Sterling 2500 inverter without any issues, we do normally use it with the engine running and normally when we are filling up at the water point, we are liveaboard.

Has a superfast 14min wash cycle which we always use and uses about 40 ltrs of water per cycle.

Expensive compared to the normal house size washer but after year it has saved us its  purchase price on launderette fees anyway. 

Found mine on Ebay as a returned item small dent in front panel and got it for about £500

 

PS we haven't any issues with our Sterling Inverter either.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, RonnieF1967 said:

Hi 

We have a 4kg Candy Aquamatic 1042D on board, runs off our Sterling 2500 inverter without any issues, we do normally use it with the engine running and normally when we are filling up at the water point, we are liveaboard.

Has a superfast 14min wash cycle which we always use and uses about 40 ltrs of water per cycle.

Expensive compared to the normal house size washer but after year it has saved us its  purchase price on launderette fees anyway. 

Found mine on Ebay as a returned item small dent in front panel and got it for about £500

 

PS we haven't any issues with our Sterling Inverter either.

 

 

You were done! I have bought 3 Zanussi KWC 1300s for ourselves and friends for around £200 brand new graded stock.:clapping:  KWC 1301 is just a model update.

Runs on the inverter fine, we normally start it after we have been running a while so that the water is hot.

 

Candy were a client of ours, I'm not convinced about build quality or reliability. 

 

 

Edited by Boater Sam

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3 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes it is around 220v. Or of course it could be something to do with it being a centre tapped supply. When on the TP sometimes it just won’t start, ie the start light doesn’t flash asking to be pressed. So we start it on the Combi and then as soon as it starts to fill, we switch it over to the TP whence it’s quite happy.

I'd forgot about the centre tapping!!!!!   Everything here works just fine but whenever I plug in something new I always half expect a big expensive bang.

 

I suspect it would only need a single resistor change to up the voltage just a fraction but Mr Cox is not willing to give me his circuit diagram.

 

..............Dave

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3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

You were done! I have bought 3 Zanussi KWC 1300s for ourselves and friends for around £200 brand new graded stock.:clapping:  KWC 1301 is just a model update.

Runs on the inverter fine, we normally start it after we have been running a while so that the water is hot.

 

Candy were a client of ours, I'm not convinced about build quality or reliability. 

 

 

Probably but you get used to it as a Boater, everything you need has inflated prices hey ho don't sweat the small stuff

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Tumble driers?? 😲 Greta says use a washing line, it's free and green. Shirley, you can fit one of those twizzy line driers on the back of most boats. 

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39 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Tumble driers?? 😲 Greta says use a washing line, it's free and green. Shirley, you can fit one of those twizzy line driers on the back of most boats. 

Trad stern so not really. Might struggle to see where we’re going! Anyway, it rains.

 

Bearing in mind most of the fossil fuel used by our boat is simply to propel it pointlessly around the countryside always ending up returning to the same place, the little extra to run the drier whilst we are cruising, is insignificant.

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