Heartland Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 The wandering away from the subject with regards to the Croydon Canal, seems to have created comments about the St Columb Canal. Whilst it can be said that all canal schemes have a purpose so as to find the finance for construction, the abandonment of St Columb canal, which was never completed must rank as a failed canal scheme and what was made has led to observations that it was pointless. Another in this category group may well be the Whitby Canal, which had intentions of linking the River Esk with Pickering, but again was not completed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I think the St Columb canal begs a question as to why anyone thought it was a good idea! It's a delightfully eccentric proposal that must have made sense to the promoter but few others. Other canals failed, the one I'm most familiar with being the Dorset and Somerset, but I can see why someone thought a canal from the K&A to Blandford via Frome and Sturminster Newton might be a good idea even if I question their commercial judgement. "What problem were they trying to solve" is always a good question to ask.... there must be others where one might ask the same question and struggle to find an answer. The Ballinamore and Ballyconnell canal in Ireland was actually completed but hardly used in the 19th century, thus demonstrating the promoters were guilty of wishful thinking - however desirable linking the Shannon and the Erne might have seemed it was apparent no-one had a use for such a link. That canal has of course seen much traffic in the 21st Century rebranded as the Shannon-Erne Waterway, but leisure demand is a very different beast. I'd welcome other candidates for "pointless canals"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Another which may seem a little odd and maybe pointless is Dukarts canal with it's dry wherries (inclines), and off course one that is in the book of heroic failures the cong canal. Mallow–Lombardstown Canal Bridgetown Canal Emmets Canal Adelphi Canal I can't really see much point for the Arbury canals either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fairhurst Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 The Leominster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: Emmets Canal Curiously I've just been reading up on Emmets Canal as part of looking at all abandoned canals 45 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: I can't really see much point for the Arbury canals either. I think even their promoter knew that these were pointless! Unless, of course, the endless pleasure of boating is considered to be the purpose 12 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said: The Leominster! I think this was a case of massively overestimating the commercial clout of a small market town miles from anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) I dont think that the Arbury Canal was quite as pointless as they predate the Coventry Canal and were used for transport of coal. It is a waterway network that expanded with time and was of interest enough for the Weavers to have a trip boat for the RCHS to investigate. Of course the RCHS does like to follow such themes and still do so. Edited January 22, 2020 by Heartland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 There are quite a few small canals that didn't last very long and when you look on a modern map seem to be pointless but the industry that fed them has long disappeared Stevenston Canal Woodeaves canal Eardington Canal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, Heartland said: I dont think that the Arbury Canal was quite as pointless as they predate the Coventry Canal and were used for transport of coal. It is a waterway network that expanded with time and was of interest enough for the Weavers to have a trip boat for the RCHS to investigate. Of course the RCHS does like to follow such themes and still do so. It's a fascinating system but it didn't need to be so elaborate to carry coal, some bits were simply a folly (in the architectural sense) - there was no technical need for the three-way lock for example, it didn't solve a problem and indeed the two upper levels were the same level and the gates next to each other. 12 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: There are quite a few small canals that didn't last very long and when you look on a modern map seem to be pointless but the industry that fed them has long disappeared Stevenston Canal Woodeaves canal Eardington Canal I think this all started with my statement that the St Columb canal was bonkers. The reasons I say this are 1 - it was planned as a loop - why? especially as the two termini were at different levels? 2 - it was to import sea sand and sea weed for fertiliser - the level of demand didn't even begin to justify a canal. The Bude Canal has the same problem - the idea was to load the tub boats on the beach at Bude at low tide - farmers preferred to take their own cart down and get it, always a problem when your principal cargo is free at point of source. 3 - The local geology wasn't exactly favourable to canal building, as they found at one end, nor is water supply plentiful. 4 - from the perspective of history, the only trader was Edyvean, who built and owned it, and he spent his and his sister's fortune on the venture for no return. I would agree that short canals in a pre-industrial landscape were not (necessarily) pointless, for example the Compstall Navigation served the mill at Compstall, and made use of a leat that was needed for water supply by carrying goods on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) The Eardington Forge Canal on the River Severn did serve the forges there. Much was in a tunnel . Re Arbury It's a fascinating system but it didn't need to be so elaborate to carry coal, some bits were simply a folly (in the architectural sense) - there was no technical need for the three-way lock for example, it didn't solve a problem and indeed the two upper levels were the same level and the gates next to each other. With mining areas there is the problem of subsidence and also the purpose of building the canal branches- those need to be better understood, I suppose as well as the other uses for the needs of the Arbury Estate Edited January 22, 2020 by Heartland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, magpie patrick said: I think this all started with my statement that the St Columb canal was bonkers. The reasons I say this are I on holiday in Newquay later this year and will try and find more of it to photo and post on here, I don't think there is anything to find of the incline at Trenance Point, but there is a bridge somewhere I think a photo was in Russels Lost Canals Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, magpie patrick said: Curiously I've just been reading up on Emmets Canal as part of looking at all abandoned canals I think even their promoter knew that these were pointless! Unless, of course, the endless pleasure of boating is considered to be the purpose I think this was a case of massively overestimating the commercial clout of a small market town miles from anywhere! I used to live just outside Leominster and work in the town. I wasn’t really into Canals at that time but I would like to know the route of the canal. I will have a search online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nightwatch said: I used to live just outside Leominster and work in the town. I wasn’t really into Canals at that time but I would like to know the route of the canal. I will have a search online. Have a look on this map http://www.railmaponline.com/Canals.php I mapped it a while ago but have yet to add features to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 45 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said: Have a look on this map http://www.railmaponline.com/Canals.php I mapped it a while ago but have yet to add features to it. Thank you for the link to the map. I lived in Eyton, quite close to the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nightwatch said: I used to live just outside Leominster and work in the town. I wasn’t really into Canals at that time but I would like to know the route of the canal. I will have a search online. I have a booklet named 'Lost canals' It has a bit on the Leominster canal, and a map Edited January 22, 2020 by rusty69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Ronald Russell's book is a good starting point. He describes the St Columb Canal as being disused as any canal can be. it was the concept of John Edyyvean of St Austell. When he died the canal died with him. Mr Russell also mentions the Chard Canal, which also might be a candidate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 there are a few west country canals that are good candidates: The Cann Quarry canal The Par canal The Rolle canal Tavistock canal Tamar manure navigation. Possibly the Liskeard & Looe Canal although that was fed by the caradon tramway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, rusty69 said: I have a booklet named 'Lost canals' I'm sure I did, but I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Athy said: I'm sure I did, but I can't find it. I didn't steal it. Honest guvner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Athy said: I'm sure I did, but I can't find it. Probably the small version of Ronald Russels Lost Canals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lowe Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Another canal I think should be added to our list is Bo'ness Canal, another started but never completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brightley Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Heartland said: Re Arbury It's a fascinating system but it didn't need to be so elaborate to carry coal, some bits were simply a folly (in the architectural sense) - there was no technical need for the three-way lock for example, it didn't solve a problem and indeed the two upper levels were the same level and the gates next to each other. With mining areas there is the problem of subsidence and also the purpose of building the canal branches- those need to be better understood, I suppose as well as the other uses for the needs of the Arbury Estate I know the Arbury Canals quite well (I wrote an article about them for Waterways World in the '80's). They're unusual in that they are completely within the Newdigate family's private estate, financed only by them and solely for their use. They served several purposes -they were (and still are) partly a decorative folly as suggested above. We would also perhaps call them a status symbol these days as they showed the owners were able to afford the latest fashions and were knowledgeable about the latest technology. But they were also a practical experiment in the very early days of canal building and did inform the family's involvement in other waterways schemes (they were involved in the promotion of the nearby Coventry and Oxford canals, for example). So if we see them as a 'prototype' for the Coventry and Oxford canals maybe they aren't so pointless ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, buccaneer66 said: there are a few west country canals that are good candidates: The Cann Quarry canal The Par canal The Rolle canal Tavistock canal Tamar manure navigation. Possibly the Liskeard & Looe Canal although that was fed by the caradon tramway. I may be biased as I'm west country based and I luurve our wacky, odd ball waterways, but I think you're confusing "pointless" with small strictly local concerns. The Cann Quarry canal served a useful purpose getting stone to the effective inland limit for barges on the tidal river Plym, the Tavistock feed Morwellham Quay and connected Tavistock to the outside world (although the Mill Hill Branch wasn't exactly a success. That said I've never really understood what the Par Canal was for. The St Columb Canal stands head and shoulders above the rest in being singularly useless - I still have a soft spot for it though. Edited to add, as far as I know only two navigations were named after their principal cargo, The Somersetshire Coal Canal and The Tamar Manure Navigation. Further edited to add - small local concerns on the edge of the Kingdom are fascinating and diverse even if I dispute that they are pointless! Edited January 23, 2020 by magpie patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I would suggest that 'pointless' is not the best definition, as such canals were considered beneficial by those who promoted them, and there was a great feeling that canals were the answer to economic problems in the late 18th century. In this respect, it is worth comparing canals promoted 1760-1780 with those promoted in the 1790s. The former, based on developing existing local industries, tend to be successful, while many of the later, where they hoped canals would attract industry, were unsuccessful. The word 'unviable' is probably a better one to describe the canals being considered here, but that does not really take into account of local pressure for improvement. To some extent the promotion of canals could be said to be analogous to the current Brexit discussions. Our society has not really changed much over the last 250 years, and even the hard-won protection for those in employment is slowly being removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st ade Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, magpie patrick said: ...Tamar Manure Navigation. I wonder what other names it was called... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, 1st ade said: I wonder what other names it was called... ... and whether you would need a paddle ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now