WalkerWalker92 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Hello fellow boaters. I've posted a couple of times on here before I was actually a boater, and now I am. What a difference a few months can make. Anyway... When I first moved onto my boat there was literally no rocking side to side. I could jump from the tow path onto the stern and would not really move a massive amount. Since we moved all our stuff onto the boat the rocking has become a lot more noticeable. Examples of noticeable rocking is certainly when you step onto the boat from the towpath. Also when you move from one side of the boat to the other. We have one diesel tank port side of the stern which is holding around 150litres of diesel at the minute. We also have a diesel tank at the bow which is holding about 50litres. the boat is not listing, its just a very noticeable rocking when moving about, as mentioned above. It levels out quite quickly though. The boat itself is not a steel top, its basically a wooden top with aluminium exterior panels. Full steel hull. We bought the boat newly refurbished so my initial guess is we might not be ballasted for the weight of a full tank of diesel and all our belongings. Would anyone agree that could be the cause of the now noticeable rocking? Does that mean I should be looking to add the weight of the diesel in both tanks + the weight of all my belongings above the waterline to the ballast? In regards to the weight. Would I be fine adding the additional ballast? I'm assuming that the weight of my top as it is wood and not steel already weighs significantly less then a full steel shell. This surly would mean I'm not at risk of sitting too low? What should I be checking and how can I test it beforehand? I'm happy to accept there will always be a slight rock and it is fairly enjoyable at times. However I can't help but notice there has been a dramatic change since moving our stuff onto the boat and we'd really like to get it to a less noticeable rocking. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Andrew Edited January 22, 2020 by WalkerWalker92 missed a point out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frahkn Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 35 minutes ago, WalkerWalker92 said: Hello fellow boaters. I've posted a couple of times on here before I was actually a boater, and now I am. What a difference a few months can make. Anyway... When I first moved onto my boat there was literally no rocking side to side. I could jump from the tow path onto the stern and would not really move a massive amount. Since we moved all our stuff onto the boat the rocking has become a lot more noticeable. Examples of noticeable rocking is certainly when you step onto the boat from the towpath. Also when you move from one side of the boat to the other. We have one diesel tank port side of the stern which is holding around 150litres of diesel at the minute. We also have a diesel tank at the bow which is holding about 50litres. the boat is not listing, its just a very noticeable rocking when moving about, as mentioned above. It levels out quite quickly though. The boat itself is not a steel top, its basically a wooden top with aluminium exterior panels. Full steel hull. We bought the boat newly refurbished so my initial guess is we might not be ballasted for the weight of a full tank of diesel and all our belongings. Would anyone agree that could be the cause of the now noticeable rocking? Does that mean I should be looking to add the weight of the diesel in both tanks + the weight of all my belongings above the waterline to the ballast? In regards to the weight. Would I be fine adding the additional ballast? I'm assuming that the weight of my top as it is wood and not steel already weighs significantly less then a full steel shell. This surly would mean I'm not at risk of sitting too low? What should I be checking and how can I test it beforehand? I'm happy to accept there will always be a slight rock and it is fairly enjoyable at times. However I can't help but notice there has been a dramatic change since moving our stuff onto the boat and we'd really like to get it to a less noticeable rocking. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Andrew I am absolutely no expert, I'm just somebody who is awake at 2.30 in the morning. All your "stuff" may have added weight to the boat but at too high a level, so perhaps some ballast is the answer. If you can wait until morning - who shifts ballast in the dark - you will probably get more informed contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 With regard to what you should check... I'm not sure you need as much ballast as all your stuff + diesel (particularly as your diesel is close to be ballast - as in quite low in the boat usually). You definitely want sufficient (where sufficient needs to be a bit bigger for rivers than flat canal water) distance between the water line and any out (potentially in) lets you have. I'm pretty sure there are guidelines somewhere - if you had boat surveyed it may even mention them in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 hours ago, frahkn said: In regards to the weight. Would I be fine adding the additional ballast? I'm assuming that the weight of my top as it is wood and not steel already weighs significantly less then a full steel shell. This surly would mean I'm not at risk of sitting too low? What should I be checking and how can I test it beforehand? Basically you have added weight 'high up' (above the water line) which now makes the boat top-heavy. The simple way to overcome that is to add weight 'low down' ( below the water line) If you have put (say) 200kgs of food, clothes, beer, & stuff etc 3 foot above the water line then you need to put 200kgs 3 feet below the water line, but that is obviously impossible in a NB. Your boat will have been designed with stability and buoyancy to suit its wooden top, you cannot just say an X-foot long steel topped boat weighs more than mine so mine will be OK with more beer on board. Put what weight you can below the floor but ensure that any hull openings (drains, exhaust, air vents etc) remain 10" above the water line. All boats are 'tender' (wobbly) to a certain extent, you will get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Short boats are more difficult to ballast correctly, a little weight makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerWalker92 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, frahkn said: I am absolutely no expert, I'm just somebody who is awake at 2.30 in the morning. All your "stuff" may have added weight to the boat but at too high a level, so perhaps some ballast is the answer. If you can wait until morning - who shifts ballast in the dark - you will probably get more informed contributions. Haha. I mean, you've pretty much nailed it. Oh and shifting ballast in the dark is easier then in the light as the neighbours won't noticing their crazy paving missing till the morning... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerWalker92 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Basically you have added weight 'high up' (above the water line) which now makes the boat top-heavy. The simple way to overcome that is to add weight 'low down' ( below the water line) If you have put (say) 200kgs of food, clothes, beer, & stuff etc 3 foot above the water line then you need to put 200kgs 3 feet below the water line, but that is obviously impossible in a NB. Your boat will have been designed with stability and buoyancy to suit its wooden top, you cannot just say an X-foot long steel topped boat weighs more than mine so mine will be OK with more beer on board. Put what weight you can below the floor but ensure that any hull openings (drains, exhaust, air vents etc) remain 10" above the water line. All boats are 'tender' (wobbly) to a certain extent, you will get used to it. Cheers for the reply. I've had a look under the floor boards and theres deffo room for more ballast. I think i'll start with the weight of the diesel tanks and see if that helps. Would you say if I could find some weights for weight lifting that could possibly work? Ive found 50kg on gumtree for £25 but its not iron its plastic covered something. Steel I'm guessing. How would that compare to concrete slabs? 11 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said: With regard to what you should check... I'm not sure you need as much ballast as all your stuff + diesel (particularly as your diesel is close to be ballast - as in quite low in the boat usually). You definitely want sufficient (where sufficient needs to be a bit bigger for rivers than flat canal water) distance between the water line and any out (potentially in) lets you have. I'm pretty sure there are guidelines somewhere - if you had boat surveyed it may even mention them in there? Okay, I'll check the survey. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, WalkerWalker92 said: How would that compare to concrete slabs? Steel is denser than concrete slabs (heavier for the same size) but don't waste your money buying those weights - look for a local reclamation yard. Council 3' x 2' x 2" slabs weigh about 50kgs each and can be had quite cheaply ( about £3 at our local yard), much cheaper then the 'modern' 18" x 18" x 1/2", , or even the 24" x 24" slabs as 'modern man' cannot lift the big slabs. Example (No idea where you are) 3 x 2 on ebay at £3 each https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/reclaimed-paving-slabs-/283588928364?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 150 litres of diesel on one side (unusual) is 150kgs. How much do the people on board weigh ? (You cannot 'balance the boat' as people move from side to side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerWalker92 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Steel is denser than concrete slabs (heavier for the same size) but don't waste your money buying those weights - look for a local reclamation yard. Council 3' x 2' x 2" slabs weigh about 50kgs each and can be had quite cheaply ( about £3 at our local yard), much cheaper then the 'modern' 18" x 18" x 1/2", , or even the 24" x 24" slabs as 'modern man' cannot lift the big slabs. Example (No idea where you are) 3 x 2 on ebay at £3 each https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/reclaimed-paving-slabs-/283588928364?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10 150 litres of diesel on one side (unusual) is 150kgs. How much do the people on board weigh ? (You cannot 'balance the boat' as people move from side to side) Okay, yeh i'll have a look and see what i can find. The ebay ones look good, thanks for the recommendation. The tank is one side as the second tank is decommissioned. (it was fun learning it was decommissioned the hard way) We are planning to use that space to install a generator. Combined weight is around 22stone and we're in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, WalkerWalker92 said: The tank is one side as the second tank is decommissioned. (it was fun learning it was decommissioned the hard way) We are planning to use that space to install a generator. Trying not to go too far off topic, but I will anyway - what sort of generator are you looking at installing, fuel type (petrol or diesel) how are you installing it and who will be installing it. The subject often rears its head as the subject of potential CO poisoning is very relevant to boaters, Just as 'be aware' information : SYNOPSIS On Monday 1 April 2013, the emergency services attended the motor cruiser Arniston on Windermere, Cumbria, where a mother and her daughter had been found unconscious. The two females were taken by air ambulance to Lancaster Royal Infirmary where they were pronounced deceased. A postmortem concluded that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning. The subsequent MAIB investigation identified that: • The carbon monoxide poisoning had resulted from the inhalation of fumes emitted from a portable generator installed in the boat’s engine bay. • The external exhaust system fitted to the portable generator had been modified to incorporate a silencer that had become detached from both the generator and the outlet pipe to the vessel’s side. • The portable generator’s engine exhaust fumes filled the engine bay and spread through gaps in an internal bulkhead into the aft cabin where the mother and daughter were asleep. • The portable generator was not intended by its manufacturer to be installed into an enclosed space, nor was it intended to be modified in any way. • The improvised exhaust system attached to the generator was constructed from materials and using methods that were not appropriate for this application. • The boat’s occupants were not alerted to the danger because two carbon monoxide sensors fitted to the boat at build were out of date and had been disconnected from the power supply. A recommendation has been made to the Department for Business Innovation & Skills, which is intended to ensure that new recreational craft are fitted with carbon monoxide alarms. A recommendation has also been made to the Boat Safety Scheme, Maritime and Coastguard Agency, Royal Yachting Association, British Marine Federation, Council of Gas Detection and Environmental Monitoring and the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities, aimed at raising the awareness of recreational boaters to the dangers of carbon monoxide and promoting the use of carbon monoxide alarms through a co-ordinated and concerted campaign. A further recommendation has been made to the Boat Safety Scheme, which is aimed at identifying and highlighting the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning during boat examinations. A recommendation has also been made to the Lake District National Park Authority to improve safety on its waters. Full report here : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/56a20e2040f0b667ce00002b/MAIBInvReport_2_2015.pdf The generator was modified and installed by the boat owner who was a qualified gas engineer (and should have known better) 1.5 ARNISTON’S OWNER Arniston’s owner was 39 years old. After leaving school he completed a heating and ventilation apprenticeship, during which he gained City and Guilds qualifications in pipe-fitting and welding. He was also on the ‘Gas Safe Register’4, which is the official gas registration for the United Kingdom. In 2007, the owner started a business installing and servicing heating and ventilation systems in commercial premises. Please take this in the spirit intended - stay safe !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerWalker92 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Trying not to go too far off topic, but I will anyway - what sort of generator are you looking at installing, fuel type (petrol or diesel) how are you installing it and who will be installing it. The subject often rears its head as the subject of potential CO poisoning is very relevant to boaters, Just as 'be aware' information : SYNOPSIS On Monday 1 April 2013, the emergency services attended the motor cruiser Arniston on Windermere, Cumbria, where a mother and her daughter had been found unconscious. The two females were taken by air ambulance to Lancaster Royal Infirmary where they were pronounced deceased. A postmortem concluded that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning. The subsequent MAIB investigation identified that: • The carbon monoxide poisoning had resulted from the inhalation of fumes emitted from a portable generator installed in the boat’s engine bay. • The external exhaust system fitted to the portable generator had been modified to incorporate a silencer that had become detached from both the generator and the outlet pipe to the vessel’s side. • The portable generator’s engine exhaust fumes filled the engine bay and spread through gaps in an internal bulkhead into the aft cabin where the mother and daughter were asleep. • The portable generator was not intended by its manufacturer to be installed into an enclosed space, nor was it intended to be modified in any way. • The improvised exhaust system attached to the generator was constructed from materials and using methods that were not appropriate for this application. • The boat’s occupants were not alerted to the danger because two carbon monoxide sensors fitted to the boat at build were out of date and had been disconnected from the power supply. A recommendation has been made to the Department for Business Innovation & Skills, which is intended to ensure that new recreational craft are fitted with carbon monoxide alarms. A recommendation has also been made to the Boat Safety Scheme, Maritime and Coastguard Agency, Royal Yachting Association, British Marine Federation, Council of Gas Detection and Environmental Monitoring and the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities, aimed at raising the awareness of recreational boaters to the dangers of carbon monoxide and promoting the use of carbon monoxide alarms through a co-ordinated and concerted campaign. A further recommendation has been made to the Boat Safety Scheme, which is aimed at identifying and highlighting the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning during boat examinations. A recommendation has also been made to the Lake District National Park Authority to improve safety on its waters. Full report here : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/56a20e2040f0b667ce00002b/MAIBInvReport_2_2015.pdf The generator was modified and installed by the boat owner who was a qualified gas engineer (and should have known better) 1.5 ARNISTON’S OWNER Arniston’s owner was 39 years old. After leaving school he completed a heating and ventilation apprenticeship, during which he gained City and Guilds qualifications in pipe-fitting and welding. He was also on the ‘Gas Safe Register’4, which is the official gas registration for the United Kingdom. In 2007, the owner started a business installing and servicing heating and ventilation systems in commercial premises. Please take this in the spirit intended - stay safe !! Thanks for that. yeh i'll actually properly look at the logistics as and when. But actually feeling now that it wouldn't be such a good idea. Thanks Alan, you've really helped answer my questions will keep you posted on my ballast. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, WalkerWalker92 said: Thanks for that. yeh i'll actually properly look at the logistics as and when. But actually feeling now that it wouldn't be such a good idea. Thanks Alan, you've really helped answer my questions will keep you posted on my ballast. Cheers! Absolutely no problem to properly fit a proper boat generator, but the cost maybe prohibitive. The Generator will be £5000 - £7000 (depending on output) and will be another £3,000 - £4000 for all the ancillaries and fitting costs. The boat will need to come out of the water to have holes cut in the bottom. Good luck with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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