Whale Gulper water pump. Why not?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

This is probably a really dumb question and I think I know what the answer is going to be, but I'll ask it anyway.

Fresh water pumps usually don't last very long. I seem to go through one every four years on average. Whale Gulper shower pumps by contrast last for decades, pumping all sorts overboard and are very hard to kill. Why can't a Gulper, with an external pressure switch shut off be used as a fresh water pump? I am guessing that something in the design prevents it producing a high pressure on the outlet side. Back leaks could be prevented by a non return valve, but an inability to bring the outlet pressure up to 2 bar or so would preclude their use. Is this the case? Is it something else, like non-potable compatible materials in the pump body?

 

Jen

[mrsmelly]

Its not an impeller so pushes water on/off which wouldnt be much good for showers etc surely?

[davidb]

If you had a big accumulator with fairly big connections it might be ok if you kept the pressure down below 1 bar.

[rusty69]

I have often wondered this too. We have one as a bilge pump, and one as a shower drain pump. Maybe I will hook one up as a main water pump see what happens,I think it would play havoc with the paloma though!

Edited January 21, 2020 by rusty69

[davidb]

Again, if you have an accumulator and a prv you should be ok. Go for it! we all need to know what happens.?

[blackrose]

I think a whale gulper would be a bit noisy and erratic if used as a domestic water pump, but I suppose as long as the accumulator can cope it would work. 

 

My parmax 3.5 is 10 years old now and used everyday as a liveaboard so I don't seem to have the same problem with pumps, although last time I mentioned that I was told I was unable to empathethise adequately with those who got through pumps like hot dinners (I paraphrase).

 

I've only had two domestic pumps in 15 years. The Shurflow that came with the boat lasted 4 years, I fixed the leak and it lasted another year before I replaced it with the Jabsco..

 

Anyway, when this one dies I won't be replacing it with a whale gulper. 

[Boater Sam]

I solved the water pump problem years ago, 20 years running and counting on the same pump with just one new pressure switch.

Par 36800 series pumps, not cheap but utterly dependable. I have a spare, will probably never use it, the present one will see me out.

All parts available too so infinitely repairable.

[blackrose]

30 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I solved the water pump problem years ago, 20 years running and counting on the same pump with just one new pressure switch.

Par 36800 series pumps, not cheap but utterly dependable. I have a spare, will probably never use it, the present one will see me out.

All parts available too so infinitely repairable.

 

Careful, or you'll have MtB coming down on you like a tonne of bricks  telling you that your problem is you're unable to accept that other people's pumps don't last as long! ?

 

But seriously, in my case at least, you've come up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. ?

Edited January 22, 2020 by blackrose

[Slim]

My deskwash uses a diaphram pump but that discharges through a garden hose type trigger gun.

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Its not an impeller so pushes water on/off which wouldnt be much good for showers etc surely?

neither are the vast majority of domestic water pumps these days. The Whale is a diaphragm pump using one large diaphragm, the domestic water pumps  are still diaphragm pumps but using three or more smaller diaphragms operating sequentially

 

Many years ago there was a US single diaphragm domestic water pump that mechanically and electrically was very similar to the Whale. It had a box l;ke base that acted as an accumulator and that worked well enough until the base joints corroded and started to leak. That base had  smaller volume than most accumulators on narrowboats so I am sure the idea woudl work.

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

neither are the vast majority of domestic water pumps these days. The Whale is a diaphragm pump using one large diaphragm, the domestic water pumps  are still diaphragm pumps but using three or more smaller diaphragms operating sequentially

 

Many years ago there was a US single diaphragm domestic water pump that mechanically and electrically was very similar to the Whale. It had a box l;ke base that acted as an accumulator and that worked well enough until the base joints corroded and started to leak. That base had  smaller volume than most accumulators on narrowboats so I am sure the idea woudl work.

I think you are remembering the Par pump I mentioned above Tony apart from the fact that the Par has a non corroding stainless and Phenolic base that contains a damper membrane. Still made but over $600 now.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

My parmax 3.5 is 10 years old now and used everyday as a liveaboard so I don't seem to have the same problem with pumps, although last time I mentioned that I was told I was unable to empathethise adequately with those who got through pumps like hot dinners (I paraphrase).

I almost added in my original post "except @blackrose, who seems to be able to make one last forever!"

 

Had a look on the Whale web site and there doesn't appear to be any information on how much outlet pressure a gulper can build, so it would either be a matter of @rusty69 trying it and seeing what happens, or asking Whale and hearing them say "You want to do what!!??".

 

Jen

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I almost added in my original post "except @blackrose, who seems to be able to make one last forever!"

Probably has no Mrs Blackrose to hammer it 24/7.Our poor pump was 12kg when we first got it. It has had a workout every day for 4 years and now only weighs 4.5kg.Poor thing will be no more by the start of spring I wager. 

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Whale web site and there doesn't appear to be any information on how much outlet pressure a gulper can build, so it would either be a matter of @rusty69 trying it and seeing what happens, or asking Whale and hearing them say "You want to do what!!??".

Me, an experiment..... It wouldn't end well! 

[MtB]

The Gulper works in a completely different way IIRC, I think it is a peristaltic pump that pushes gobbets of fluid along in the same way one’s alimentary canal pushes food and drink along. They produce very little pressure but are highly resistant to blocking, making them very suitable for drain pumps. 
 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Me, an experiment..... It wouldn't end well! 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I think it would play havoc with the paloma though!

You are always bringing weird women into the conversation 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

47 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I think you are remembering the Par pump I mentioned above Tony apart from the fact that the Par has a non corroding stainless and Phenolic base that contains a damper membrane. Still made but over $600 now.

 

The one we had used light alloy base castings, the way it corroded I would not be surprised if it was not Mazac.  In those days stain;less steel was simply not seen much apart from up market cutlery.

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The Gulper works in a completely different way IIRC, I think it is a peristaltic pump that pushes gobbets of fluid along in the same way one’s alimentary canal pushes food and drink along. They produce very little pressure but are highly resistant to blocking, making them very suitable for drain pumps. 
 

This suggests not - diaphragm & valve kit https://www.wetroomsdirect.net/whale-shower-drain-pump-head-replacement-kit-sds071t.html

 

The pulsed output also suggests diaphragm technology , however Whale may make other types of pump.

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

This suggests not - diaphragm & valve kit https://www.wetroomsdirect.net/whale-shower-drain-pump-head-replacement-kit-sds071t.html

 

The pulsed output also suggests diaphragm technology , however Whale may make other types of pump.

 

You're right! As usual

 

On reflection I've taken one apart and they rely on those little black NRVs made of really soft neoprene to work. There is one in the photo you linked to.

 

I think this means they will not hold back much pressure, and a separate, proper NRV will need to be fitted just downstream of one used as a domestic water pump.

 

 

[bizzard]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

neither are the vast majority of domestic water pumps these days. The Whale is a diaphragm pump using one large diaphragm, the domestic water pumps  are still diaphragm pumps but using three or more smaller diaphragms operating sequentially

 

Many years ago there was a US single diaphragm domestic water pump that mechanically and electrically was very similar to the Whale. It had a box l;ke base that acted as an accumulator and that worked well enough until the base joints corroded and started to leak. That base had  smaller volume than most accumulators on narrowboats so I am sure the idea woudl work.

Godwin is another large rubber diaphram pump, beatifully made. I had one on my Ballerina sailing cruiser.  Whale Gulpers were a hand bilge pump, motorized. Of course Godwin are big on allsorts of pumps.

Edited January 22, 2020 by bizzard

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Godwin is another large rubber diaphram pump, beatifully made. I had one on my Ballerina sailing cruiser.  Whale Gulpers were a hand bilge pump, motorized.

Whale still do hand operated bilge pumps.Moby dick had one fitted. I think they are called 'Gusher'.

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Whale still do hand operated bilge pumps.Moby dick had one fitted. I think they are called 'Gusher'.

Moby Dick had a fire brigade Coventry Climax pump.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Godwin is another large rubber diaphram pump, beatifully made. I had one on my Ballerina sailing cruiser.  Whale Gulpers were a hand bilge pump, motorized.

The Godwin pumps we used were centrifugal pumps with a toroidal pressure chamber at the base with a wheel barrow sized inner tube as an accumulator. As you say lovely and reliable pumps but with three slight drawbacks. The motor shaft seal was a carbon ring and in hire fleet use they used to wear out and were not easy to fit. The impeller had a base on it and the small gaps used to clog with rust and grit. This reduced the flow rate and eventually had to be cleaned out. Perhaps the biggest problem was that they were not self priming but a good suck on an open tap usually sorted that.

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Moby Dick had a fire brigade Coventry Climax pump.

Was it a go-diva?

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Was it a go-diva?

Don'know, no one talks to me ,I'm in Coventry.