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Shoe plates?


Galilee

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2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

The question I would be pondering is if I decided it wasn't urgent, and just a recommendation, how would it effect my insurance if I choose to put off the work. 

You have found someone to insure against wear and tear?

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

You have found someone to insure against wear and tear?

Few insurers will cover claims due to 'lack of maintenance', in general text my policy states (something to the effect) "Insurance is not to be considered to be a substitute for preventative maintenance" but the detailed clauses are :-

 

Your insurers will not pay for loss or damage caused by :

 

1.2.3 loss or damage caused by Faults which You were aware
of and / or which would have been discovered during
normal maintenance of Your Insured Property;

1.3.1 loss or damage caused by Gradual Deterioration which
could have been identified by routine inspection and / or
prevented by servicing or maintenance or recommended
replacement intervals, in accordance with engineers’,
surveyors’ or manufacturers’ advice;

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

You have found someone to insure against wear and tear?

I would think an insurer would wriggle out of paying a claim if they could, hence the pondering bit. They may not be in possession of the survey of course, or it could be third party only insurance, in which case I would be less concerned. However, a quick call to the insurance company may be worthwhile.

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I've just insured the boat as we're picking it up next Saturday. The online application asked nothing about the condition of the hull.

 

TBH we'll have it out of the water to be blacked in the spring, so we can take a view then. Between now and then we just have to move it from Barton Turns to St. Mary's on the Rufford Branch, so hopefully it'll all hold together okay for that :)

 

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7 minutes ago, Galilee said:

The online application asked nothing about the condition of the hull.

 

It wouldn't but there will be a condition in the policy schedule similar to :

 

 

Your insurers will not pay for loss or damage caused by :

 

1.2.3 loss or damage caused by Faults which You were aware
of and / or which would have been discovered during
normal maintenance of Your Insured Property;

1.3.1 loss or damage caused by Gradual Deterioration which
could have been identified by routine inspection and / or
prevented by servicing or maintenance or recommended
replacement intervals, in accordance with engineers’,
surveyors’ or manufacturers’ advice;

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24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

1.2.3 loss or damage caused by Faults which You were aware
of and / or which would have been discovered during
normal maintenance of Your Insured Property;

That's the trouble with having a survey. We had ours surveyed the year before last.The weed hatch had been fine for the previous 35 years, but this particular year it was not high enough. The surveyor suggested that we had it extended,so we did, as we wanted the comprehensive cover. Although it had not previously been 'a fault' if we had ignored the surveyors advice, would the insurers have payed out if we had made a claim?

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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

That's the trouble with having a survey. We had ours surveyed the year before last.The weed hatch had been fine for the previous 35 years, but this particular year it was not high enough. The surveyor suggested that we had it extended,so we did, as we wanted the comprehensive cover. Although it had not previously been 'a fault' if we had ignored the surveyors advice, would the insurers have payed out if we had made a claim?

That is why i use the same surveyor for all my BSC/hull surveys etc.....it might cost me a few quid to pay for his mileage but at least he knows the boat and I know he will be consistent. 

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Just now, frangar said:

That is why i use the same surveyor for all my BSC/hull surveys etc.....it might cost me a few quid to pay for his mileage but at least he knows the boat and I know he will be consistent. 

So did I, for 21 years. Trouble is he has just retired. Trevor Whitling.

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2 minutes ago, frangar said:

That is why i use the same surveyor for all my BSC/hull surveys etc.....it might cost me a few quid to pay for his mileage but at least he knows the boat and I know he will be consistent. 

Would you prefer consistent or thorough ?

 

Bit like all theses companies that claim "ISO9000" - all it means is they are consistent, they could be consistently 'good' or consistently 'bad'

Consistent is no indication of high quality or adherence to following standards..

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just now, rusty69 said:

So did I, for 21 years. Trouble is he has just retired. Trevor Whitling.

I had the same problem when Jim Macdonald retired.....I asked who he would recommend....and Ive been happy with Mike Carter since as they both have a similar attitude and outlook.

 

Have you asked Trevor if he could recommend anyone?

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Just now, frangar said:

I had the same problem when Jim Macdonald retired.....I asked who he would recommend....and Ive been happy with Mike Carter since as they both have a similar attitude and outlook.

 

Have you asked Trevor if he could recommend anyone?

Yes I have.

 

Yes he did.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Would you prefer consistent or thorough ?

 

Luckily both Jim and Mike are both...they are also sensible and use their knowledge and skill rather than just quoting regs

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unfortunately, in my experience, seldom found.

You aren't using the right people then!

 

 

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1 minute ago, frangar said:

 

Luckily both Jim and Mike are both...they are also sensible and use their knowledge and skill rather than just quoting regs

You aren't using the right people then!

 

 

I've given up now, in (probably) a dozen different examiners not a single one had actually followed the BSS instructors 'manual' and guidelines.

 If the BSS is just 'common sense, knowledge and experience then we don't need the BSS.

 

I've given up now and will not be bothering to get a BSS, guess that makes my boat join the 300,000+ that don't bother. Wonder if it will be now more 'dangerous' than before.

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

I've given up now, in (probably) a dozen different examiners not a single one had actually followed the BSS instructors 'manual' and guidelines.

 If the BSS is just 'common sense, knowledge and experience then we don't need the BSS.

 

I've given up now and will not be bothering to get a BSS, guess that makes my boat join the 300,000+ that don't bother. Wonder if it will be now more 'dangerous' than before.

The trouble is, for us anyway, insurance.As our boat is now old, it means either third party only insurance, or jump through the surveyor/insurer hoops. For many years we were of the attitude of sod it, we will have third party only insurance. 

 

Our sailboat sits on a swinging mooring 365, and is only insured third party only and has no BSC......bliss!

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Here's a 5 year old boat built we have done some bits on this week made by a volume builder from Liverpool.? It has a full RCD file and cert, it was also BSS tested for the first time last September.

The gas locker had no way of securing any gas bottles, no bracket strap or chains.

The solid fuel stove was not secured.

Picture of the gas hose.

Picture of the gas pipe in the front well deck, this is very old pipe and has different colour paint on it to the boat.

 

 

 

 

 

20200124_111733.jpg

20200123_115149.jpg

 

These issues have been there from day 1, and should certainly have been picked up in the BSS

20200123_115121.jpg

 

Yet again showing the dangers of companies self certifying RCD, a nice big folder full of gumph and big words means nothing if nobody is either quality checking, or the company doesn't want to.

Edited by matty40s
  • Horror 1
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21 hours ago, matty40s said:

 

 

So, today's good example of longevity was built in 2015, by a very prolific boat maker almost mentioned in the quotes above.

Other than possibly 2 feet surrounding the 4 anodes, the hull was basically covered in a rash of orange from front to rear, with up to 1mm extensive pitting already, and many areas of flat pitting. The waterline is stripped and delaminating already.

8 new anodes have been recommended by the surveyor.

It was fitted with a galvanic isolator from new. Whether this is correctly installed is not known, as various other manufacturing defects have also been found (see RCD post)

 

20200123_094321.jpg

20200123_094313.jpg

20200123_094337.jpg

So what's happened here then? Good old fashioned rust along the waterline, lots of pitting below that, and no photo of the underneath. In fact there's no way to get under the thing. The underneath will be much the same .In fact this is something similar to what you would get if you took a brand new skip, sprayed a coat of skip paint over it then sat it in a pool of water for a few years. Why should a boat be any different? steel is steel. That mess above is because it needed paint. Simple as that. Bitumen, epoxy, B&Q white gloss. Anything so long as it protected the steel. Also, what is this 'sacrificial edge'? It is a happy accident that welding the side to the bottom is easier to do that way, I cannot think of any other boat type that has that feature designed into it.

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3 hours ago, Galilee said:

I've just insured the boat as we're picking it up next Saturday. The online application asked nothing about the condition of the hull.

 

TBH we'll have it out of the water to be blacked in the spring, so we can take a view then. Between now and then we just have to move it from Barton Turns to St. Mary's on the Rufford Branch, so hopefully it'll all hold together okay for that :)

 

Nice trip. Bought ours at Barton Turns and brought it to Stretford on The Bridgewater in Sept 2011.

  • Happy 1
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14 hours ago, Galilee said:

We've received the full survey now, this is the relevant part:

 

4.2.4 Apart from the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard, a satisfactory sacrificial edge was provided. Edge of the plate was close to the weld line at the ‘start of swim’, particularly to port.
4.2.5 Hull Integrity Recommendation:
• Increase the sacrificial edge of the base plate at the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard with fully welded bar. Length required to each side was approximately 500mm.

 

I'm inclined to think that this is considerably less than urgent. Hull thickness readings are reported as:

Base plate 9.7 - 9.9mm

Uxter plate ditto

Hull sides 5.7 - 5.9mm

No pitting corrosion sighted anywhere.

 

Serms a bit odd to me that the 10mm thick wear edge on a 2006 boat has been worn away only over a length of just 500mm either side. Possibly more of a defect from the originàl build?

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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Serms a bit odd to me that the 10mm thick wear edge on a 2006 boat has been worn away only over a length of just 500mm either side. Possibly more of a defect from the originàl build?

Not really. That's the bit that wears first as you push the bow out and motor away from the bank, pushing that corner (start of swim) into the shallow water. Hire co said it's very very common on their Llangollen based boats for just that small section to wear and need work, sometimes after just 3 years or so. 

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