Galilee Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 We had a boat surveyed yesterday and the surveyor sent us a brief summary email that included the following comment: Hull is okay, needs couple of shoe plates at the back I have never heard of shoe plates, and Google has come up blank. Can anyone here tell me what they are please? Thanks, Stuart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyhanger Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Probably best to speak to the surveyor directly. It may be a technical expression, or it may be a bit of local vernacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 The hull is worn away at the chine i.e. the point where the hull side meets the bottom. The surveyor is recommending that a plate should be welded to the bottom, ectending out a little from the hull side to create a new wear edge. This is a fairly standard repair on an older boat (especially hire/ex-hire boats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 With our old butty the shoe plate was the bit where composite elm timber met cast iron forging. The elm being butted into the shoe plate by a shoe board ( specially shaped bit of wood.) we replaced the shoe board due to rot with a piece of steel. i think your surveyor means therefore the very last bit of your hull below the counter plate. This bit wears across the chines as lowest part of the hull in the water. bit concerned by surveyor describing a hull as ‘okay’ . Okay means what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Thanks chaps, I await the full report to understand what 'okay' means. It's a 2006 boat, not been used as a hire boat to my knowledge. I understand then that the sacrificial edge of the chine is ground away so the boat needs a new sacrifical edge, which would be provided by overwelding a shoe plate. Presumably this would point to the boat having been used on shallow canals, or having been repeatedly moored up by the 'crash and slide' method (although you'd expect that to hit the front harder)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 The back of the boat is deeper so more likely to have been scraped along the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 It's rather bad news that a 2006 boat should need any shoeing yet, I would have thought. I'd suggest that either it was built with a very small wear edge in the first place, or it has had a fairly hard life. Who built the boat shell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Shoe plates. Perhaps he only means two foot steps either side of the rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Im having shoe plates welded on my 1983 boat.....its got a 6mm bottom and it was flagged up at the last hull survey....it wasn't desperate but considering we are getting the hull metal sprayed and 2 packed it was considered prudent to do any welding first.....we are quite deep draughted for a welded boat at 2ft 8in so often rub the bottom especially when moored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: Who built the boat shell? It's a Liverpool Boats shell. https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/liverpool-boats-45-cruiser-stern/608153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, bizzard said: Shoe plates. Perhaps he only means two foot steps either side of the rudder. That was my first thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, Galilee said: It's a Liverpool Boats shell. https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/liverpool-boats-45-cruiser-stern/608153 You look to have a nice pair in your avatar. My 'boys' on the boat. Dudley the Pug & Bryn the French Bulldog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Arnie and Reggie, off to a wedding 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Galilee said: It's a Liverpool Boats shell. https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/liverpool-boats-45-cruiser-stern/608153 Not that this should in itself generate a need for shoeing, but I'd be a bit worried by.... Quote Blacked 2013. 7 years is a horrendous amount of time since a last blacking - what does the survey report say about hull condition generally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Haven't seen the full report yet, it was surveyed yesterday, We know that the blacking is way way overdue, and have concerns about other routine maintenance areas (engine servicing?) as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, alan_fincher said: It's rather bad news that a 2006 boat should need any shoeing yet, I would have thought. Particularly since it has a 10mm baseplate. That suggests that an inadequate wear edge was provided in the first place. I would normally associate reshoeing with 1970s/80s boats with a 6mm (or less) bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Shoeing (aka sole and heel) seems to be this years surveyors bee in collective bonnet. Saw an 80's Colecraft surveyed earlier this year. The wear edge was fine, like you could put a Dinky toy car on most of it and it had been doubled with angle at bow and on the start of swim curve. Surveyor wanted the angle removed and the whole edge shoed. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, BEngo said: Surveyor wanted the angle removed and the whole edge shoed. Question - Shoeing, Shoed or Shod ? Edited January 21, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dreamer Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, David Mack said: The back of the boat is deeper so more likely to have been scraped along the bottom. Especially if it has lived its life on a shallow canal like the Llangollen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Question - Shoeing, Shoed or Shod ? Or cobbled together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 21/01/2020 at 13:32, David Mack said: Particularly since it has a 10mm baseplate. That suggests that an inadequate wear edge was provided in the first place. I would normally associate reshoeing with 1970s/80s boats with a 6mm (or less) bottom. On 21/01/2020 at 11:26, Galilee said: It's a Liverpool boats On 21/01/2020 at 10:54, alan_fincher said: It's rather bad news that a 2006 boat should need showing yet.... Who built the boat shell? So, today's good example of longevity was built in 2015, by a very prolific boat maker almost mentioned in the quotes above. Other than possibly 2 feet surrounding the 4 anodes, the hull was basically covered in a rash of orange from front to rear, with up to 1mm extensive pitting already, and many areas of flat pitting. The waterline is stripped and delaminating already. 8 new anodes have been recommended by the surveyor. It was fitted with a galvanic isolator from new. Whether this is correctly installed is not known, as various other manufacturing defects have also been found (see RCD post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, matty40s said: Other than possibly 2 feet surrounding the 4 anodes, the hull was basically covered in a rash of orange from front to rear, with up to 1mm extensive pitting already, and many areas of flat pitting. The waterline is stripped and delaminating already. A possible case of two wrong feet and ugly shoe plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom and Bex Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Our 2006 ex-hire boat will be needing shore plates in the not too distant future. Was advised by surveyor when we bought it 3 years ago to keep an eye on it as wear edge was getting close to the weld bead - still nearly 10mm to go though so think surveyor was being overly pessimistic! When speaking to hire co about it, they said not unusual to have to shoe their Llangollen based boats twice during their 10 years on the hire fleet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted January 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 We've received the full survey now, this is the relevant part: 4.2.4 Apart from the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard, a satisfactory sacrificial edge was provided. Edge of the plate was close to the weld line at the ‘start of swim’, particularly to port. 4.2.5 Hull Integrity Recommendation: • Increase the sacrificial edge of the base plate at the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard with fully welded bar. Length required to each side was approximately 500mm. I'm inclined to think that this is considerably less than urgent. Hull thickness readings are reported as: Base plate 9.7 - 9.9mm Uxter plate ditto Hull sides 5.7 - 5.9mm No pitting corrosion sighted anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Galilee said: We've received the full survey now, this is the relevant part: 4.2.4 Apart from the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard, a satisfactory sacrificial edge was provided. Edge of the plate was close to the weld line at the ‘start of swim’, particularly to port. 4.2.5 Hull Integrity Recommendation: • Increase the sacrificial edge of the base plate at the ‘start of swim’ to port and starboard with fully welded bar. Length required to each side was approximately 500mm. I'm inclined to think that this is considerably less than urgent. Hull thickness readings are reported as: Base plate 9.7 - 9.9mm Uxter plate ditto Hull sides 5.7 - 5.9mm No pitting corrosion sighted anywhere. The question I would be pondering is if I decided it wasn't urgent, and just a recommendation, how would it effect my insurance if I choose to put off the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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