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john6767

CRT Election

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Has anyone tried voting in the CRT boating licence holder election?  For me it just says “You have not cast enough votes”.  I can’t see anywhere that it says there is a minimum number of people that you have to vote for.

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12 minutes ago, billS said:

It's four.

That was my guess as there are four places, but nowhere does it say you have to case four votes.  I object to having to vote for random people that I don’t know, just so I can vote for the two that I do know.

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1 hour ago, john6767 said:

That was my guess as there are four places, but nowhere does it say you have to case four votes.  I object to having to vote for random people that I don’t know, just so I can vote for the two that I do know.

You're lucky, I didn't know any of them personally so had to read through all the statements!

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Have they changed how you vote this time then?

 

The time I stood (the first time they ran it after CRT founded), you placed as many candidates as you wished in order of preference, and that could be more than 4, and as much as the total number of candidates standing.

This was because of transferable votes, so if candidates higher in your preferences had already been eliminated your vote could still help a lower preference.

I remember clearly ordering every candidate, just to place Vaughan Welch, (who had made some odious statements), firmly at the bottom of my pecking order.

It would be a shame if they had changed it so you just cast 4 votes, as the system they used the first time could certainly be considered fairer.

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Three that I do know personally:

https://hnbc.org.uk/crt-election-2020

Yes, but unless you volunteer for CRT, I don't think you should be able to vote for Ian McCarthy.  (When I was a volunteer he was my choice, though).

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5 hours ago, john6767 said:

That was my guess as there are four places, but nowhere does it say you have to case four votes.  I object to having to vote for random people that I don’t know, just so I can vote for the two that I do know.

I agree and was caught by the same problem as I only wanted to vote for 1 person. But actually it does say that you are voting to fill 4 posts and so it’s not that unreasonable that they want 4 votes out of you as a minimum. Or at least, I can see the logic even if like you I didn’t particularly want to have to vote for unknown people.

 

(to answer Alan’s point) you can rank all the candidates in preferential order if you wish.

Edited by nicknorman

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I've just read over their statements again and I can't think why I would want to vote for any of them.  Mostly their statements are just willy-waving about the things they've done.  Precious little on what they aim to achieve as a rep or what they stand for, other than vague statements such as "I'm a traditionalist".  I was amused by some obvious mistakes such as "The Worcester Canal".  I know what they mean, but surely in your statement you'd make sure you got the names of canals right?

 

In any case, do these reps actually wield any power at all?  Or is it just for people who like to attend committees and feel important?

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7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've just read over their statements again and I can't think why I would want to vote for any of them.  Mostly their statements are just willy-waving about the things they've done.  Precious little on what they aim to achieve as a rep or what they stand for, other than vague statements such as "I'm a traditionalist".  I was amused by some obvious mistakes such as "The Worcester Canal".  I know what they mean, but surely in your statement you'd make sure you got the names of canals right?

 

In any case, do these reps actually wield any power at all?  Or is it just for people who like to attend committees and feel important?

Regardless of their statement quality, I think it's a shame when people are vilified for putting themselves forward to participate; perhaps they simply want to try and make a difference and get involved rather than criticise from the outside.

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4 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Regardless of their statement quality, I think it's a shame when people are vilified for putting themselves forward to participate; perhaps they simply want to try and make a difference and get involved rather than criticise from the outside.

You're probably right.  Slap on the wrist for me.  It was a question, not a statement though.  I'd also say that if you want to put yourself in the firing line, then expect both support and criticism.

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In an attempt to be more positive, this was the one which stood out for me, from Danie Milnes:

 

" My aim is to support the redevelopment of commercial freight interest on the Aire and Calder Canal. These commercial connections would help maintain the infrastructure and historic significance of all Yorkshire waterways, simultaneously adding interest for the public. The Aire & Calder is the largest, most significant non-tidal commercial waterway in the UK and I feel it can remain significant through this proposal. This would appeal to businesses wanting to reduce their carbon footprint, whilst re-establishing the canal as the major waterway it once was. Having the commercial interest back in the waterways will encourage the public to spend more time in such a diverse and historic landscape."

 

It was quite refreshing to read a statement with a clear vision.  If I voted for him, I'd know what I was voting for.  With most of the others I wouldn't other than the vague idea that boating is good.

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Have they changed how you vote this time then?

 

The time I stood (the first time they ran it after CRT founded), you placed as many candidates as you wished in order of preference, and that could be more than 4, and as much as the total number of candidates standing.

This was because of transferable votes, so if candidates higher in your preferences had already been eliminated your vote could still help a lower preference.

I remember clearly ordering every candidate, just to place Vaughan Welch, (who had made some odious statements), firmly at the bottom of my pecking order.

It would be a shame if they had changed it so you just cast 4 votes, as the system they used the first time could certainly be considered fairer.

Yes, but unless you volunteer for CRT, I don't think you should be able to vote for Ian McCarthy.  (When I was a volunteer he was my choice, though).

You can order them all if you want to.  Iit says you can vote for as many as you want to, but nowhere does it say that you have to vote for a minimum of four, but that is the case.  I don’t remember if last time you had to vote for a m8 I’m of four, but that seems to be a unnecessary restriction to me, you should be able to just vote for one person if that is what you want to do.  
 

The end result is that two people have go my 3rd and 4th votes based just on what the rather limited statement said, rather that me actually wanting them to get the job.

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2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've just read over their statements again and I can't think why I would want to vote for any of them.  Mostly their statements are just willy-waving about the things they've done.  Precious little on what they aim to achieve as a rep or what they stand for, other than vague statements such as "I'm a traditionalist".  I was amused by some obvious mistakes such as "The Worcester Canal".  I know what they mean, but surely in your statement you'd make sure you got the names of canals right?

 

In any case, do these reps actually wield any power at all?  Or is it just for people who like to attend committees and feel important?

The person I voted for is personally known to me. Ex forum member here. Although he and I often argued and (IMO) he can be a PITA (whilst I am of course a saint), his heart is definitely in the right place and so I had no difficulty voting for him. Unfortunately I also had to vote for 3 other random people. Anyone from London was out, anything airy fairy was out, so the choice wasn’t too difficult.

Edited by nicknorman

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I've yet to read the statements, but I'm aware people are having to vote based solely on them, without necessarily knowing the candidates.

For what it is worth, I'm sure I will vote for two who already have a very solid track record on council.

They will be Phil Prettyman, who has been a boater's representative for the last 4 years, and Andy Tidy, who has been a business representative for the last 4 years, but as they have now moved small traders from the "business" category to the "private boaters" one, Andy has had to switch to where he still qualifies, (and he very much still qualifies!)

Andy (a forum member) has done an excellent job in feeding back the Council proceedings, something the incumbents for the previous 4 yeras to that failed spectacularly to think was important.  A similar accolade could be attacked to Stella Ridgeway, another forum member, who has done us proud for 4 yeras, but who has had to stand down because of major changes in her life since she was first elected.  we were well served by both forum members, I believe.

Additionally if I still had a volunteer vote, I would have no hestiation in voting for Ian mcCarthy, who got my vote last time around.  Hugely devoted to all his CRT relatedroles, Ian does an excellent job.  I would urge anyone who does get a vulunteer vote to consider voting for Ian.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

The person I voted for is personally known to me. Ex forum member here. Although he and I often argued and (IMO) he can be a PITA (whilst I am of course a saint), his heart is definitely in the right place and so I had no difficulty voting for him. Unfortunately I also had to vote for 3 other random people. Anyone from London was out, anything airy fairy was out, so the choice wasn’t too difficult.

Same way I picked my two additional ones, does not feel right that you have to do it though.

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12 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Same way I picked my two additional ones, does not feel right that you have to do it though.

You can try looking at it another way....

If the voting is like it was when I stood, (and it sounds like it is), you can NEVER disadvantage your higher choices by picking lower ones.  The lower one only comes into play because of "transferable vote", after your higher placed choices have been eliminated.

So even if picking a total stranger, who may appear somewhat unimpressive, if you can see anybody else on the list who you feel confident would be worse, it is worth going for as many multiple choices as you can just to (albeit marginally) reduce the chances of someone you consider a complete dongo getting in.

When I stood I had the wit to put myself as first choice (!) but I also used every other choice, because there were some I feared would be atrocious in the role.  Unfortunately being IWA backed they still got in, but at least I tried! (And as I feared, they were worse than a dead loss!).

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10 hours ago, john6767 said:

Has anyone tried voting in the CRT boating licence holder election?  For me it just says “You have not cast enough votes”.  I can’t see anywhere that it says there is a minimum number of people that you have to vote for.

You don’t happen to be using an iPad to vote, do you?

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

I've yet to read the statements, but I'm aware people are having to vote based solely on them, without necessarily knowing the candidates.

For what it is worth, I'm sure I will vote for two who already have a very solid track record on council.

They will be Phil Prettyman, who has been a boater's representative for the last 4 years, and Andy Tidy, who has been a business representative for the last 4 years, but as they have now moved small traders from the "business" category to the "private boaters" one, Andy has had to switch to where he still qualifies, (and he very much still qualifies!)

Andy (a forum member) has done an excellent job in feeding back the Council proceedings, something the incumbents for the previous 4 yeras to that failed spectacularly to think was important.  A similar accolade could be attacked to Stella Ridgeway, another forum member, who has done us proud for 4 yeras, but who has had to stand down because of major changes in her life since she was first elected.  we were well served by both forum members, I believe.

Additionally if I still had a volunteer vote, I would have no hestiation in voting for Ian mcCarthy, who got my vote last time around.  Hugely devoted to all his CRT relatedroles, Ian does an excellent job.  I would urge anyone who does get a vulunteer vote to consider voting for Ian.

Thanks Alan - your support is much appreciated. 

 

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54 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

You don’t happen to be using an iPad to vote, do you?

Yes

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9 hours ago, john6767 said:

Yes

So am I, and it looks like another website that don’t work with Safari!

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1 hour ago, The Dreamer said:

So am I, and it looks like another website that don’t work with Safari!

Based on what has been said on Facebook as well it seems the constraint of 4 relates to mobile devices, perhaps it does also apply to Safari on Mac I don’t know, but certainly on a PC (don’t know if it is browser specific) you seem to be able to vote for any number.  
 

I have raised a complaint with CES, as this is not a fair election.  Really they should call the vote off, fix the problem and start again but I bet they don’t.

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2 hours ago, john6767 said:

Based on what has been said on Facebook as well it seems the constraint of 4 relates to mobile devices, perhaps it does also apply to Safari on Mac I don’t know

Yes, it does.

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First of all Thank You Mr Fincher.
Votes for boaters my ordering 

Phil PrettyMan, Andy Tidy, Eric McDowall, Malcolm Bridge - it then gets far harder
for Voluteers my ordering

(Me) Ian McCarthy, Robert (Bob) Dewey, Trevor Clark, Faser Pithie, David Wiliams, Niel Linford, Peter Hepburn and Steve Cousins
 

here is part of a piece I wrote about Council, which some may find helpful.

 

Hi, you may be aware that active C&RT registered volunteers are about to be called upon to vote for their two representatives on the Council of the Canal and River Trust. Please vote when asked.
The function of the Council is not to manage the Trust, but to appoint and oversee the trustees, who can be thought of as the directors of the Trust. Council also appoints the Chairs of the Regional Advisory Boards, who also become council members.
The simplest view of the function of council members is that they are the share holders of the Trust. Council members are NOT like MP's, or any other politicians, they have no ability to directly change or influence things. That function is the remit of the Trustees who are the directors of the Trust and it is they who determine the direction and policies of the Trust, as with any company. The Trustees are also the people legally liable for the trusts activities, and management. The Trustees appoint the Executive, whose function is run the company, day to day.
Council interacts with the Trustees twice a year, when the Trustees and Executive, report to Council on their activities. It is at these meetings where new Trustees are formally appointed, and council provides feedback on the trusts activities.
To aid the running of Council there is a joint committee of Council members and Trustees which undertakes the hard work of finding new trustees and regional Chairs. There are three council members who are elected there by their fellow council members. Currently these three are, Andrew Phasey who was an elected boaters rep but is now the AWCC appointee, Phil Prettyman, and myself,  Ian McCarthy who are also both elected reps, and now need your votes.

 

PS if you get the chance to vote please use it.

Edited by Ian Mac

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Have cast my votes for license holder and volunteer, aligning with the comments Alan made above as these were names I know from the boating world. It was easy to discount many from their statements.

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