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Watford to Bedford along GU, Nene, MLN and Ouse


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31 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

It is-and with the wind blowing down the river and a bit of flow on probably the most horrible to get in or out of on the upstream end.

Got me thinking on that one-there are only actually 6 'D' shaped with 6 straight guillotine locks (including Denver). I too would have sworn the D,s are the most common on the Ouse but actually arent.

D- shaped: St Ives, Hemingford, Houghton, Godmanchester, Brampton, Eaton Socon (6)

 

Straight: Brownshill, Paper Mill, Offord, Cardington, Bedford (5)

 

Twin mitre: Roxton, Barford, Willington, Castle Mill (4)

 

I don't think Denver counts,  as the Ely Ouse is a separate river system (it should be called the Cam  .. .). And its only had guillotines since three 1980s

 

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12 hours ago, john6767 said:

That is what I was thinking, “pro rate refund for full months unused”, you don’t get it all back just unused months.  So I have lost Jan now and once we get to Feb I loose Feb as well.  I need to call them I guess, if I want to do it.

Just to close this.  I have switched to a Gold licence, it is trivially simple to do online there is no need to call CRT.  The refund on the existing licence is initiated automatically and despite what it says online about being “full months unused” the refund is for the full period from 1st Jan, so it does not matter at what time of year you switch.  So well done to CRT for a simple a seamless system.

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36 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Just to close this.  I have switched to a Gold licence, it is trivially simple to do online there is no need to call CRT.  The refund on the existing licence is initiated automatically and despite what it says online about being “full months unused” the refund is for the full period from 1st Jan, so it does not matter at what time of year you switch.  So well done to CRT for a simple a seamless system.

Thought so.

But I had to ring them when we changed to a Gold licence a few years back as that is the only way to get the historic boat discount (which applies to the CRT portion of the fee, but not the EA's).

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18 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Last time I went to the head of navigation I turned here (57' boat). One side of the island was too shallow, the other side had too much vegetation.

Yes that is where we turned (67ft) on our second visit, with no difficulty; the previous time we got closer to the bridge and turned where the tributary enters just below it.

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On 20/01/2020 at 06:34, ivan&alice said:

Planning my first really long boating adventure for between April and July when the warmer weather hits.

 

The farthest north I have been is just before Lock 74, Lady Capels near the Huntingdon Bridge interchange. I have family in East Anglia so from there I'd like to head north on the Grand Union through Milton Keynes and the Blisworth Tunnel, then take a right through Northampton and onto EA waters. From there, the River Nene to Peterborough and the Middle Levels to Salters Lode. Then the Old Bedford River / Hundred Foot Drain to join up with the Great Ouse at Earith. I then want to follow the Great Ouse to Bedford.

 

Is this all feasible with our 65' narrowboat?

 

Is the time of year appropriate?

 

Where is the head of navigation on the Great Ouse?

 

Am I going to have any trouble finding moorings along this route?

 

Will a gold license be enough or do I need other special licenses for this route?

 

I have not yet been on any rivers other than the Lea and Stort which for the most part were no different to canals. I have read the handbook about river navigation and it seems deceptively straightforward. However I have also read on this forum that flooding and tides can be an issue on these rivers. What else do I need to know and how can I find this out?

 

Any other advice for me?

 

Thanks!!

 

You may find this and other items this of interest from our 2018 trip down the Nene  & over the ML and up the G Ouse and its Lodes. https://braggaboutlife.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/whittlesey-dyke-to-the-great-ouse-via-well-creek/

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  • 5 months later...

Now that the restrictions are lifted some we're going to head off on this trip soon. I checked the navigation notices at https://www.visitanglianwaterways.org

and I didn't see anything that might be a problem for us.

What I really need some help on is convincing me to buy a Gold Licence. Our annual CaRT license costs us 1040.2 GBP and expires in October (what with the very generous extra month CaRT gave us for Covid compensation). A Gold License will cost us 1399 GBP. Now of course we'll get the refund of the unused months but given that it runs from January to January and we're only likely to hit the Nene in say late July, we're not very likely to get to any other EA waters. So we're looking at 358.8 quid just for the license for this trip. I know it's a good deal over the whole year but... 360 squids just for this one trip!!! And that's not including friends of ouse and friends of nene membership, which will take it up to almost 400!

We cruise VERY slowly... so I reckon we'll be on the EA waterways at least 2-3 months, and a temporary license isn't really worth it for us. But that also means we aren't going to get to see all the other EA waterways the Gold License allows.

I have family in East Anglia and I grew up in that part of the country so I really want to explore the waterways, but also there is so much else that we haven't seen.

Am I just being miserly here ... is the money for a good cause (the maintenance of the waterways etc...) is the Nene, Ouse and MLN just so great that it's worth it... basically please help me justify this trip to my accountant!!!

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If you will be spending over 2 months on the EA waters then it will be cheaper to buy a Gold licence eater that short term licences.  We were planning to go on Nene, Gt Ouse and Thames and it was going to save over £200 by having a Gold licence.  It think the Easy Anglian licences are substantially more than Thames ones you it should work out better for you unless there is a good value 3 month visitor licence for East Anglia.

 

You don’t get the free month with a Gold licence so unless CRT cock it up, when you get the refund it should be based on your original expiry date.

 

For us this year it didn’t work out, although I am hoping to get a bit back on the cost of the Gold licence by going on the Thames in September, if we last that long before a lockdown for winter.

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I would upgrade to a gold for this year.  I am assuming you will be back on CRT waters by April.  If you stay on the EA waters then you may find (as I did) that it's easier to stay on a gold licence, as it is expensive to licence a boat from 1 Jan to 31 March (the EA licences run from 1st April!). So I've been on a gold licence now since 2011.

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On 21/01/2020 at 09:53, Scholar Gypsy said:

D- shaped: St Ives, Hemingford, Houghton, Godmanchester, Brampton, Eaton Socon (6)

 

Straight: Brownshill, Paper Mill, Offord, Cardington, Bedford (5)

 

Twin mitre: Roxton, Barford, Willington, Castle Mill (4)

 

I don't think Denver counts,  as the Ely Ouse is a separate river system (it should be called the Cam  .. .). And its only had guillotines since three 1980s

 

I assume by D shaped you mean pregnant bay lock chambers? (possibly not a politically correct term but the one the EA used to use) - although they are all guillotine there is no logical reason why they couldn't have mitre gates

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2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

I assume by D shaped you mean pregnant bay lock chambers? (possibly not a politically correct term but the one the EA used to use) - although they are all guillotine there is no logical reason why they couldn't have mitre gates

Not heard that term before - D-shaped is the term I hear most often (and in GOBA news).  There's a real hodge podge of lock designs on the river. At least some of the guillotine ones are "reversed" from time to time, to augment the weir capacity in times of flood. V doors chained open and then the guillotine lifted.

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Gold licence runs for 12 months January-December. If you buy a Gold licence now it will run to the end of 2020 and you will get a pro rata refund of the current licence for the period from 1 January 2020 until it's expiry date. Not sure how they will handle the free month in calculating that since CRT only licences get the free month but Gold licences don't. At the point you convert to Gold, all you will have to pay is the net cost of the Gold licence less the refund.

But as the Gold licence will expire on 31 December 2020, your next licence will need to run from 1 January, so you will be paying at a different time of year from before. That might be a cash flow problem if Christmas hits your finances hard.

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On 25/06/2020 at 15:46, Scholar Gypsy said:

V doors chained open and then the guillotine lifted

Unless the fall is very slight I suppose that the lock becomes impassable during these conditions?

 

On 25/06/2020 at 15:46, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

On 25/06/2020 at 06:18, john6767 said:

You don’t get the free month with a Gold licence so unless CRT cock it up, when you get the refund it should be based on your original expiry date.

Hmm, how do you figure this? Surely it would make sense for CaRT to refund all unused months, including the one they gave me? Interestingly, the way they achieved it on their system seems to be by advancing the whole license by a month - both my start date and end date are now October (previously September). So I think it quite likely that they will refund the whole period Jan-Oct.

On 25/06/2020 at 11:29, Scholar Gypsy said:

I am assuming you will be back on CRT waters by April.

I am guessing that I will want to be back on the Grand Union before the dead of winter - so probably by September, October at the latest. I'm guessing that EA waters are a less desirable place to spend the winter, given the sparseness of facilities and moorings, general desolation of the fenlands, and frequent SSAs and closure issues. Perhaps I'm wrong about that? If so, then perhaps I should head up to Leicester and back for the rest of the year and rather do the Anglian waterways in January-March?

 

On 25/06/2020 at 16:25, David Mack said:

But as the Gold licence will expire on 31 December 2020, your next licence will need to run from 1 January, so you will be paying at a different time of year from before. That might be a cash flow problem if Christmas hits your finances hard.

Thanks, this is a good consideration to be aware of. But actually I think I'd prefer it to run to a calendar year, easier to keep track of that way.

 

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4 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Unless the fall is very slight I suppose that the lock becomes impassable during these conditions?

 

I am guessing that I will want to be back on the Grand Union before the dead of winter - so probably by September, October at the latest. I'm guessing that EA waters are a less desirable place to spend the winter, given the sparseness of facilities and moorings, general desolation of the fenlands, and frequent SSAs and closure issues. Perhaps I'm wrong about that? If so, then perhaps I should head up to Leicester and back for the rest of the year and rather do the Anglian waterways in January-March?

1 - correct the locks are closed. There are some photos somewhere.

 

2 - the Nene tends to close as a through route over the winter, due to stoppages. That's been the pattern for the last few years anyway. And it is unpredictable in terms of flooding and SSAs - this last winter has been particularly bad, as has the Bedford Ouse. The Ely Ouse (where I moor) is much more controlled, it's a manmade drainage system not a river really, and I use the boat all year round.  It's not very nice ...

dscf1922.jpg

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On 28/06/2020 at 05:09, Scholar Gypsy said:

the Nene tends to close as a through route over the winter, due to stoppages. That's been the pattern for the last few years anyway. And it is unpredictable in terms of flooding and SSAs - this last winter has been particularly bad, as has the Bedford Ouse. The Ely Ouse (where I moor) is much more controlled, it's a manmade drainage system not a river really, and I use the boat all year round.  It's not very nice ...

Looks pretty nice to me!

If I aimed to enter the EA waterways as early as possible next year, roughly when is the earliest that would make sense? I'm leaning towards cruising about the midlands for the rest of the summer...

 

And here's a bit of a crazy question but I think I'll ask it anyway! Is it within the realms of possibilty to enter the Anglian waterways by crossing the Wash from Boston to the Ouse mouth? I was browsing through canalplan.eu and it's marked as a waterway, and would make a great shortcut onto EA waters to skip the Nene one of the directions. It also looks like the only way to visit the River Welland, which seems like it might be a less-travelled side quest? I have heard of people crossing the Wash but I would imagine that that's more of an adventure than a possible route, especially for a relatively new boater.

 

image.png.0188cd830801f04819d46e7857d55aa1.png

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8 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Looks pretty nice to me!

If I aimed to enter the EA waterways as early as possible next year, roughly when is the earliest that would make sense? I'm leaning towards cruising about the midlands for the rest of the summer...

 

And here's a bit of a crazy question but I think I'll ask it anyway! Is it within the realms of possibilty to enter the Anglian waterways by crossing the Wash from Boston to the Ouse mouth? I was browsing through canalplan.eu and it's marked as a waterway, and would make a great shortcut onto EA waters to skip the Nene one of the directions. It also looks like the only way to visit the River Welland, which seems like it might be a less-travelled side quest? I have heard of people crossing the Wash but I would imagine that that's more of an adventure than a possible route, especially for a relatively new boater.

 

image.png.0188cd830801f04819d46e7857d55aa1.png

I wouldn't go much before Easter. Boston to the Great Ouse via Kings Lynn is perfectly doable, with a pilot (your insurance may require this anyway). The main issue is the siltation at Stowbridge (a few miles north of Denver), which may mean it's not possible to make the transit on all tides. Here is my record of the Denver to Boston trip. You go quite close to a buoy called SUNK so not for the superstitious! 

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/2015/05/27/scholar-gypsy-crosses-the-wash/

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9 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Looks pretty nice to me!

If I aimed to enter the EA waterways as early as possible next year, roughly when is the earliest that would make sense? I'm leaning towards cruising about the midlands for the rest of the summer...

 

And here's a bit of a crazy question but I think I'll ask it anyway! Is it within the realms of possibilty to enter the Anglian waterways by crossing the Wash from Boston to the Ouse mouth? I was browsing through canalplan.eu and it's marked as a waterway, and would make a great shortcut onto EA waters to skip the Nene one of the directions. It also looks like the only way to visit the River Welland, which seems like it might be a less-travelled side quest? I have heard of people crossing the Wash but I would imagine that that's more of an adventure than a possible route, especially for a relatively new boater.

 

image.png.0188cd830801f04819d46e7857d55aa1.png

Crossing The Wash is a fun adventure, but it's in no way a "short cut". Given that you'll have to wait for a day with suitable weather and a suitable tide, you'd have to be extraordinarily lucky to get to Peterborough quicker over  The Wash than going via the Nene.

 

MP

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  • 3 weeks later...

We decided with a heavy heart to leave the MLN trip to as early as possible next year. Can't justify the extra spend on a gold license we'll only be able to use for two or three months.

 

Instead we're now at Braunston and heading to visit friends in Stourbridge.

 

Canalplan.eu offers 5 different routes to get here.

  • The suggested route is 65 miles and 107 (!) locks, following the GU Warwick and Napton canal, Warwick and Birmingham canal, Birmingham main line, Netherton tunnel.
  • Second is a 67 miles and 97 locks, using the Stratford upon Avon canal instead of Warwick and B'ham.
  • Third is 81 miles 86 locks, via the Oxford canal and B'ham and Fazeley (Rugby and Coventry) rather than the southern route along Warwick and Napton canal.
  • Fourth is 82 miles and 83 locks, similar to 3, but using Tame Valley Canal rather than B'ham main line.
  • Fifth is 107 miles and (only!?) 62 locks, similar to 3 and 4 but avoiding B'ham entirely using the Staffordshire and Worcester line.

I feel like 45 fewer locks than the "fastest" route and avoiding the city seems like a nice idea?

 

Does anyone have any opinions or suggestions on a route?

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8 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

We decided with a heavy heart to leave the MLN trip to as early as possible next year. Can't justify the extra spend on a gold license we'll only be able to use for two or three months.

 

Instead we're now at Braunston and heading to visit friends in Stourbridge.

 

Canalplan.eu offers 5 different routes to get here.

  • The suggested route is 65 miles and 107 (!) locks, following the GU Warwick and Napton canal, Warwick and Birmingham canal, Birmingham main line, Netherton tunnel.
  • Second is a 67 miles and 97 locks, using the Stratford upon Avon canal instead of Warwick and B'ham.
  • Third is 81 miles 86 locks, via the Oxford canal and B'ham and Fazeley (Rugby and Coventry) rather than the southern route along Warwick and Napton canal.
  • Fourth is 82 miles and 83 locks, similar to 3, but using Tame Valley Canal rather than B'ham main line.
  • Fifth is 107 miles and (only!?) 62 locks, similar to 3 and 4 but avoiding B'ham entirely using the Staffordshire and Worcester line.

I feel like 45 fewer locks than the "fastest" route and avoiding the city seems like a nice idea?

 

Does anyone have any opinions or suggestions on a route?

I would go GU and North Stratford into the centre of Birmingham, then Main Line and Dudley No 1.  Yes you go up to go back down, assuming you are heading for the Stourbridge Arm, but it is the most interesting route and all the locks are easy.  Assuming you are going to be heading back to Braunston, the come back the S&W, T&M, Cov, North Oxford route, then you get the variety.

 

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6 hours ago, john6767 said:

I would go GU and North Stratford into the centre of Birmingham, then Main Line and Dudley No 1.  Yes you go up to go back down, assuming you are heading for the Stourbridge Arm, but it is the most interesting route and all the locks are easy.  Assuming you are going to be heading back to Braunston, the come back the S&W, T&M, Cov, North Oxford route, then you get the variety.

 

I'd vote for that too, the route via Netherton is interesting  - unless you want to explore even more of the BCN in which case you could explore the Tame Valley and/or Wyrley and Essington.  

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If forced by time constraints to choose then personally I’d opt for spending time on the Lark and (especially) the Wissey as well as the Lodes off the Cam rather than push on all the way to the top of the Ouse (fine river as it is). 
As I say, purely a personal thing.  
 

Ah - should have read further through the post. Save the comments for next year then. 

Edited by starman
Realised it’s an irrelevant comment.
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On 19/07/2020 at 22:37, john6767 said:

I would go GU and North Stratford into the centre of Birmingham, then Main Line and Dudley No 1.  Yes you go up to go back down, assuming you are heading for the Stourbridge Arm, but it is the most interesting route and all the locks are easy. 

 

On 20/07/2020 at 05:36, Scholar Gypsy said:

I'd vote for that too, the route via Netherton is interesting  - unless you want to explore even more of the BCN in which case you could explore the Tame Valley and/or Wyrley and Essington.  

 

I think this is the plan then - 65mi, 90 locks... best get moving!


image.png.89d851c8e0b57669002d5b5ae47a5b43.png
 

 

On 20/07/2020 at 10:19, starman said:

If forced by time constraints to choose then personally I’d opt for spending time on the Lark and (especially) the Wissey as well as the Lodes off the Cam rather than push on all the way to the top of the Ouse (fine river as it is). 
As I say, purely a personal thing.  
 

Ah - should have read further through the post. Save the comments for next year then. 

Thanks - I will check where we are but I am definitely keen to head up the Lark and Wissey, as well as the Little Ouse. Is there anywhere to moor near the heads of navigation of these rivers?

 

 

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1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

I think this is the plan then - 65mi, 90 locks... best get moving!


image.png.89d851c8e0b57669002d5b5ae47a5b43.png
 

 

Thanks - I will check where we are but I am definitely keen to head up the Lark and Wissey, as well as the Little Ouse. Is there anywhere to moor near the heads of navigation of these rivers?

 

 

Yes.

 

Wissey: there is one GOBA mooring, within the adult campsite at Stoke Ferry. (It's not what you think).  Also, there are some good wild moorings just downstream of there, here  (left bank going upstream) and here  (right bank). Turn at stringside drain, watch for shoals, put your bows to the left.

 

Little Ouse, yes EA moorings at Brandon, on the right just before you get to the lock, and on the "wrong" side of the lock island. Space for three NBs at a pinch. Also a very fine GOBA mooring in the middle of nowhere a few miles downstream.  Also a good wild mooring at the syphon, just downstream of the sluice gates.  Be careful of shoaling at Brandon when you turn - I find it best to get as close as you can to the weir/sluice, and take it very gently so you can back off if you hit the shoal. It is possible to get stuck for a couple of days here! 

 

Lark, you can moor at the pub at Jude's Ferry, but use your fenders (as shown below). Turn by putting your stern into the inlet just downstream of the pub, let the current take the bows round

dsc_6839.jpg
 

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1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

I think this is the plan then - 65mi, 90 locks... best get moving!


image.png.89d851c8e0b57669002d5b5ae47a5b43.png
 

 

 

 

 

Not sure exactly where your day 2 overnight stop is, but for me if you are going to be trying to get above Lapworth locks for the end of day 3 you want to spread the locks out into approx 20 a day.  I would aim for the following for overnight stops.

Day 1 on the approach to Leaminton a bit past the winding hole. 

Day 2 near the winding hole above Hatton (or at Rowington Embankment).

Day 3 Hockey Heath or Wearings Green.

Day 4 New Main Line by Arena. 

Day 5 Merry Hill 

Day 6 Stourbridge.

 

For your day 4 I would carry on into the centre of Birmingham to stop overnight.

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1 hour ago, john6767 said:

Not sure exactly where your day 2 overnight stop is, but for me if you are going to be trying to get above Lapworth locks for the end of day 3 you want to spread the locks out into approx 20 a day.  I would aim for the following for overnight stops.

Day 1 on the approach to Leaminton a bit past the winding hole. 

Day 2 near the winding hole above Hatton (or at Rowington Embankment).

Day 3 Hockey Heath or Wearings Green.

Day 4 New Main Line by Arena. 

Day 5 Merry Hill 

Day 6 Stourbridge.

 

For your day 4 I would carry on into the centre of Birmingham to stop overnight.

Thanks for that! Those stops are just from canalplan.eu based on a 7 hour day. I'm not planning on using those stops. We cruise verrrrrrrrrrry sloooooooooowly - not more than 4 or 5 hours at a time. We moor up whenever we like the look of where we're at. 20 locks in one day sounds like more than I'm willing to do to be completely honest. I think the most I've ever done in a day is 12 or so. So we'll need a few extra stops - but I'll check out those locations as possibilities, thanks!

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