Isolator for Bow Thruster Battery

[cuthound]

Can anyone identify a source of this type of battery isolator please?

 

It Is the isolator for my bow thruster battery, has suffered from condensation and is dropping a couple of volts under load, making the solenoid chatter.

 

To make the job easier I would like to replace like for like.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

I think that it is probably just a 'switch mounted into a steel plate' by the boat builder and that you are not actually showing the switch, just the mounting plate.

 

Not a direct replacement but very similar :

 

https://www.veconline.co.uk/waterproof-300-amp-heavy-duty-battery-isolator-main-switch-car-boat-truck-180278

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Here you go. This is what you have.

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/products/battery-switch-250a-single-pole-durite-vs-054

I have these on my boat. As fitted by Pipers when it was built.

Jen

Edited January 11, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[cuthound]

25 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Here you go. This is what you have.

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/products/battery-switch-250a-single-pole-durite-vs-054

I have these on my boat. As fitted by Pipers when it was built.

Jen

 

Thanks Jen. Have a greenie. 

 

I googled for it but couldnt find anything similar.

 

Currently deciding whether to insulate the BT compartment, or just drop in a greenhouse heater to heat it above dew point during the winter months.

[rusty69]

A cheap knock off equivalent maybe?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HCC-Battery-Master-Switch-250A-Equivalent-to-DURITE-0-605-50-SSB107HCC/180325084475?epid=1641241237&hash=item29fc366d3b:g:YhIAAOSwolpcQe9D

[BEngo]

5 hours ago, rusty69 said:

A cheap knock off equivalent maybe?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HCC-Battery-Master-Switch-250A-Equivalent-to-DURITE-0-605-50-SSB107HCC/180325084475?epid=1641241237&hash=item29fc366d3b:g:YhIAAOSwolpcQe9D

Cheaper, yes . A knock off, yes.  Equivalent in terms of long term performance at max rated currents- probably not.

N

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Cheaper, yes . A knock off, yes.  Equivalent in terms of long term performance at max rated currents- probably not.

N

True(maybe) . But you could have two spares for the price of the durite one. 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Thanks Jen. Have a greenie. 

 

I googled for it but couldnt find anything similar.

 

Currently deciding whether to insulate the BT compartment, or just drop in a greenhouse heater to heat it above dew point during the winter months.

 

Insulating it won't stop the temp falling, will just slow down the fall. 

 

 

And not by a great deal either!

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mike the Boilerman

[Boater Sam]

Durite one is normally durable, I would remove it, strip it and vaseline it inside. I think they do come apart easily.

If its cheapy, fit a new Durite one, grease it up first and make sure that water cannot get down the spindle hole. Plastic bag over it? Just heating the locker won't stop the condensation dripping on to it and may make it worse.

[pearley]

Could just take the operating lever out and put the red cap on to stop condensation running inside.

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Insulating it won't stop the temp falling, will just slow down the fall. 

 

 

And not by a great deal either!

 

 

 

I know, the main issue is condensation in the BT compartment, that small compartment generates a few litres of condensate every year over the colder months and is a pain to get at.

 

I have ordered an 80 watt thermostatically controlled greenhouse heater and will try that in the short term. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Durite one is normally durable, I would remove it, strip it and vaseline it inside. I think they do come apart easily.

If its cheapy, fit a new Durite one, grease it up first and make sure that water cannot get down the spindle hole. Plastic bag over it? Just heating the locker won't stop the condensation dripping on to it and may make it worse.

 

Thanks Sam, it is a Durite one. I'll try greasing it. If i can hest the BT compartment to above the dew point I thrn condensation cannot form.

2 minutes ago, pearley said:

Could just take the operating lever out and put the red cap on to stop condensation running inside.

 

Not enough space above the isolator to remove the handle unfortunately.

[Boater Sam]

6 minutes ago, pearley said:

Could just take the operating lever out and put the red cap on to stop condensation running inside.

Excellent point,   you could have PMed me, now I look like the silly old sod that I am. Well done.

 

But can the handle be removed with it turned on?  That's the rub.  I suspect not......................................................

 

 

Well, it seems that it can never be removed anyway!  That's another Piperism for the book.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Boater Sam

[Flyboy]

17 hours ago, cuthound said:

Can anyone identify a source of this type of battery isolator please?

 

It Is the isolator for my bow thruster battery, has suffered from condensation and is dropping a couple of volts under load, making the solenoid chatter.

 

To make the job easier I would like to replace like for like.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

 

I'm surprised you have a BSS with all those uninsulated connections.

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I'm surprised you have a BSS with all those uninsulated connections.

 

There is a phenolic ply lid for the BT compartment that covers the exposed terminals and also doubles as the floor of the well deck locker.

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Not enough space above the isolator to remove the handle unfortunately.

If you undo the two mounting bolts the switch will drop down (it looks like) enough to put the cap on.

 

The one I linked to earlier should fit and is classed a 'waterproof' so it may be worth changing anyway.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

32 minutes ago, pearley said:

Could just take the operating lever out and put the red cap on to stop condensation running inside.

The lever on these switches can be removed when in the OFF position, but not the ON. A safety thing. When working on the electrics it can be turned off and the key taken away with the person working on the system to prevent it being accidentally turned on. When ON you want to be able to turn it off in an emergency and having to hunt round for the key is not what you need! Since a bow thruster is only used when cruising then the key could be out and the cap to keep the internals a little drier.

 

On @cuthound's boat it might be possible to use longer bolts and washers under the mounting plate to space the lever down enough to remove the key while still having enough room to get it to engage and turn. Alternatively, fitting a new mounting plate in a better spot. Need to be a bit careful, as the gas locker may be behind the bulkhead, so making holes for bolts leads in to "does it pass BSS or not" territory. A welded plate would be better from that point of view.

 

Jen

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The lever on these switches can be removed when in the OFF position, but not the ON. A safety thing. When working on the electrics it can be turned off and the key taken away with the person working on the system to prevent it being accidentally turned on. When ON you want to be able to turn it off in an emergency and having to hunt round for the key is not what you need! Since a bow thruster is only used when cruising then the key could be out and the cap to keep the internals a little drier.

 

On @cuthound's boat it might be possible to use longer bolts and washers under the mounting plate to space the lever down enough to remove the key while still having enough room to get it to engage and turn. Alternatively, fitting a new mounting plate in a better spot. Need to be a bit careful, as the gas locker may be behind the bulkhead, so making holes for bolts leads in to "does it pass BSS or not" territory. A welded plate would be better from that point of view.

 

Jen

 

You are correct, the bulkhead is also.the back wall of the gas locker.

 

I will try to repair or if not then replace the isolator.

 

I have ordered a greenhouse heater, so hopefully that will raise the locker above the dew point and eliminate the condensation.  If not I will try insulating the BT compartment to eliminate the cold surfaces.

That said, the boat is 12 years old, so a new isolated every 12 yesrs won't break the bank.

[MtB]

 

Why does the BT battery need turning off anyway? Do they draw a quiescent current?

 

Surely the isolator is only there to allow the BSS bod to tick the box. It is only ever needed for maintenance.

 

 

 

[1st ade]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Why does the BT battery need turning off anyway? Do they draw a quiescent current?

 

Surely the isolator is only there to allow the BSS bod to tick the box. It is only ever needed for maintenance.

 

 

 

Come on Mike - keep up!

 

You need to be able to turn it off so you can remove the ke.... No, as you were!

[Flyboy]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

There is a phenolic ply lid for the BT compartment that covers the exposed terminals and also doubles as the floor of the well deck locker.

This is what BSS says   "Deck boards, locker lids, etc made from or lined with insulating material may only considered as battery covers where they will not be removed for any purpose other than gaining access to the batteries".    I think that as you have a weed hatch, the requirements are not met. I think it would be prudent to at least put some plastic covers on the battery teminals to protect yourself should you contact the battery with with the weed hatch cover.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Flyboy
spelling

[blackrose]

If that's a separate BT compartment and the condensation just ends up pooling on the floor then I wouldn't bother insulating it. Condensation is the moisture in warm air condensing against cold surfaces. So as Sam said, putting a heater in there will probably just make the condensation worse because you're creating more warm air. Although having said that warm air can hold more moisture, but overall without ventilation I think you'll just get more condensation. Just keep the compartment well painted and chuck some nappies down on the floor which can be changed every couple of months over winter. 

 

My gas locker sweats. There's no heat source so I guess the warm air must come from the LPG in the bottles which might have a slightly higher specific heat capacity than the air in the locker, much the same as what happens in fuel tanks to produce condensation. I had quite a bit of rust on the floor of the locker which also came from water entering through the scuppers on rivers whenever the bow hit any waves. So took it all back to metal and painted on 3 coats of epoxy. Then I put some rubber scraper mats on the floor to protect the paint from the bottles. Now it doesn't matter if it gets wet down there..

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

This is what BSS says   "Deck boards, locker lids, etc made from or lined with inulating material may only considered as battery covers where they will not be removed for any purpose other than gaining access to the batteries".    I think that as you have a weed hatch, the requirements are not met. I think it would be prudent to at least put some plastic covers on the battery teminals to protect yourself should you contact the battery with with the weed hatch cover.

 

Point taken, will do, although it has passed 3 BSS examinations...

 

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

If that's a separate BT compartment and the condensation just ends up pooling on the floor then I wouldn't bother insulating it. Condensation is the moisture in warm air condensing against cold surfaces. So as Sam said, putting a heater in there will probably just make the condensation worse because you're creating more warm air. Although having said that warm air can hold more moisture, but overall without ventilation I think you'll just get more condensation. Just keep the compartment well painted and chuck some nappies down on the floor which can be changed every couple of months over winter. 

 

My gas locker sweats. There's no heat source so I guess the warm air must come from the LPG in the bottles which might have a slightly higher specific heat capacity than the air in the locker, much the same as what happens in fuel tanks to produce condensation. I had quite a bit of rust on the floor of the locker which also came from water entering through the scuppers on rivers whenever the bow hit any waves. So took it all back to metal and painted on 3 coats of epoxy. Then I put some rubber scraper mats on the floor to protect the paint from the bottles. Now it doesn't matter if it gets wet down there..

 

The problem is that the condensation potentially damages the BT motor and battery isolator as well as the paintwork.

 

Improving ventilation significantly isn't really practicable, so that leaves heating or insulating as the only options to reduce condensation.

[blackrose]

11 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Point taken, will do, although it has passed 3 BSS examinations...

 

 

The problem is that the condensation potentially damages the BT motor and battery isolator as well as the paintwork.

 

Improving ventilation significantly isn't really practicable, so that leaves heating or insulating as the only options to reduce condensation.

 

But if you insulate the walls how does that stop moisture from the air condensing on the BT motor and battery isolator?

 

Try putting a heater in there and see if it makes matters better or worse.

Edited January 12, 2020 by blackrose

[Flyboy]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

But if you insulate the walls how does that stop moisture from the air condensing on the BT motor and battery isolator?

 

Try putting a heater in there and see if it makes matters better or worse.

A better solution would be to fit a proper marine switch like a Blue Sea.

 

[blackrose]

13 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

A better solution would be to fit a proper marine switch like a Blue Sea.

 

 

 

But that doesn't solve the problem of the motor getting wet, it only solves corrosion of the switch and a switch is cheap compared to a BT motor.

Edited January 12, 2020 by blackrose