Wet Under floor Stoopid Design

[TheSaintlyOne]

So the project boat is progressing gradually and all the little engine niggles are gradually getting sorted. 

 

The biggest area of concern appears to be rust!!! The well deck appears to drain under the cabin floor down to the back of the boat where it is pumped out. 

 

This seems to be a bit of a stupid design!!! But as I understand not uncommon. 

 

The rust itself scrapes off easy and appears to be worse at the front of the boat where the shower was also previously located couldn't see any sign of a sump tray when the old shower was removed???

 

So the plan is to scrape off the loose rust treat with Aqua Steel (if it works on oil rigs) and paint over with something suitable - suggestions welcome.

 

Has anybody had welded in a new well deck floor to prevent this problem in the future so that the water just drains over the side rather than down through the boat ?????

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, TheSaintlyOne said:

So the project boat is progressing gradually and all the little engine niggles are gradually getting sorted. 

 

The biggest area of concern appears to be rust!!! The well deck appears to drain under the cabin floor down to the back of the boat where it is pumped out. 

 

This seems to be a bit of a stupid design!!! But as I understand not uncommon. 

 

The rust itself scrapes off easy and appears to be worse at the front of the boat where the shower was also previously located couldn't see any sign of a sump tray when the old shower was removed???

 

So the plan is to scrape off the loose rust treat with Aqua Steel (if it works on oil rigs) and paint over with something suitable - suggestions welcome.

 

Has anybody had welded in a new well deck floor to prevent this problem in the future so that the water just drains over the side rather than down through the boat ?????

Me, or rather my welder mate. My boat was exactly the same, long pipe from the huge front deck all the way back to the engine bilge under a cruiser stern. Result was, I got flu one winter, couldn't get to the boat,rained a lot,boat sank on Christmas day. We cut the old deck out and hoicked it above the waterline with drain holes. Had to rebuild the engine. Would have been a lot cheaper to have raised the deck first,though I now have to grovel a bit to get through the front door.

The water tank is the space below the front deck,so it made it a bit easier to get in and clean that out,too.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, TheSaintlyOne said:

So the project boat is progressing gradually and all the little engine niggles are gradually getting sorted. 

 

The biggest area of concern appears to be rust!!! The well deck appears to drain under the cabin floor down to the back of the boat where it is pumped out. 

 

This seems to be a bit of a stupid design!!! But as I understand not uncommon. 

 

The rust itself scrapes off easy and appears to be worse at the front of the boat where the shower was also previously located couldn't see any sign of a sump tray when the old shower was removed???

 

So the plan is to scrape off the loose rust treat with Aqua Steel (if it works on oil rigs) and paint over with something suitable - suggestions welcome.

 

Has anybody had welded in a new well deck floor to prevent this problem in the future so that the water just drains over the side rather than down through the boat ?????

Having rainwater drain to the back of the boat is uncommon these days (not found in modern boats), although some old boats were built like this. You would have to raise the well deck floor to get it above the canal level. This can lead to headroom problems getting in and out/ difficulties with doors opening outwards etc and of course reduced headroom as you enter the boat, big step down. Not insurmountable, but a fair bit of work I’d have thought.
 

Another solution might be to block the water exit to the front of the under-cabin area and have a sump/ bilge pump that pumps rain water up to an exit above canal level, although you would have to be sure it always had power available etc.

 

Or pipe the water to the rear such that it is contained and doesn’t wet the whole baseplate.

Obviously, fit a proper shower tray with pump to expel the shower water through a skin fitting. Whale Gulper pump is the thing!

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, TheSaintlyOne said:

The rust itself scrapes off easy and appears to be worse at the front of the boat where the shower was also previously located couldn't see any sign of a sump tray when the old shower was removed???

Many older boats were designed to allow the shower to run directly under the floor and into the bilges so it could be pumped out with the bilge pump.

 

I had a 1999 built Reeves boat that had the sunken floor in the bow, this obviously meant that the floor was below the waterline and could not drain overboard, however the method of draining was a pipe connecting the well-deck, under the floor and into the rear bilge. Fortunately it was never needed as a Cratch cover ensured water never got in the well-deck in the first place.

 

The sunken well-deck certainly made it a much more usable space, we had a 'desmo' table in there and used the space for meals on nice days. The low floor meant we had full height bow doors - no crouching to wriggle in, but it did mean a double-step to get off the boat. A small 'caravan' type step to get up onto the lockers then step off the locker onto the gunnel.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 

Another solution might be to block the water exit to the front of the under-cabin area and have a sump/ bilge pump that pumps rain water up to an exit above canal level, although you would have to be sure it always had power available etc.

 

Belfast has this arrangement. A complete bulkhead down to the bottom at the cabin front and a separate bilge pump for the front well. No cratch cover so it does fill with water. No automatic bilge pump either. I just pump it out periodically.

My biggest concern is that the inside of the hull may be slowly rusting away. The plastic water tank is below the well deck floor and there is very little access for inspection, cleaning and repainting.

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I had a 1999 built Reeves boat that had the sunken floor in the bow, this obviously meant that the floor was below the waterline and could not drain overboard, however the method of draining was a pipe connecting the well-deck, under the floor and into the rear bilge. Fortunately it was never needed as a Cratch cover ensured water never got in the well-deck in the first place.

 

 

That's how mine was. Great front space, no cratch cover, but collected a lot of water all ending up in the engine bilge,and the auto bilge pump failed and down went the boat. Not far as it was farm mooring so very shallow, but far enough to fill the engine up nicely.

The new deck took a foot off the doorway, but better that than a sunk boat.

[streamline]

I know the cabin bilge would need to be sealed upto 10inches, is what we were told when buying one new boat.

But draining into the stern engine bilge seemed quite a common thing. Float and pump didn't always work though, plus battery problems could lead to bad outcomes.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, streamline said:

I know the cabin bilge would need to be sealed upto 10inches, is what we were told when buying one new boat.

That doesn't seem correct - can you remember what you were actually told ?

 

Could you be confusing the advisory / requirement not to have any hull openings (drains, exhaust etc ) less than 10" above the water line.

 

The only bilge requirement is in the 2002 BSS requirements which are not applicable to 'private boats' (only Commercial boats)

 

2.22
Engine tray
An oil-tight tray made of metal or other suitable material,
the sides of which must be carried up as high as
practicable, shall be fitted beneath every engine and
gearbox so as to prevent leakage of oil escaping into
any part of the vessel or overboard. A tray is not required
if oil-tight structural members are fitted fore and aft of the
engine. No fixed bilge pump is to draw from the oil-tight
area. 
2.22.1 Visually check for presence of oil tray or other means of
containing oil leaks from engines and gearboxes and
check for signs of oil outside the tray or oil-tight area.
2.22.2 Visually check that the sides of the engine tray or oil-tight
area tray are carried as high as practicable
(recommended minimum 100mm).
 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[streamline]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That doesn't seem correct - can you remember what you were actually told ?

 

Could you be confusing the advisory / requirement not to have any hull openings (drains, exhaust etc ) less than 10" above the water line.

 

The only bilge requirement is in the 2002 BSS requirements which are not applicable to 'private boats' (only Commercial boats)

 

2.22
Engine tray
An oil-tight tray made of metal or other suitable material,
the sides of which must be carried up as high as
practicable, shall be fitted beneath every engine and
gearbox so as to prevent leakage of oil escaping into
any part of the vessel or overboard. A tray is not required
if oil-tight structural members are fitted fore and aft of the
engine. No fixed bilge pump is to draw from the oil-tight
area. 
2.22.1 Visually check for presence of oil tray or other means of
containing oil leaks from engines and gearboxes and
check for signs of oil outside the tray or oil-tight area.
2.22.2 Visually check that the sides of the engine tray or oil-tight
area tray are carried as high as practicable
(recommended minimum 100mm).
 

It was a boat bought in the mid 80's so not sure what standards were then or if they changed. May just have been a good practice thing. Or as you say, could be getting mixed up, it was a very long time ago.

Anyway one thing for sure, we never got any water/wet in the cabin bilge of the boat for the years we had it. Very nice boat, I think it was a Jaris.