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crosser

cant get engine to run.. HELP !!

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24 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Also you might need a silencer, so if a long distance pipe can be included after the inverted U bend, the pipe going gently downhill to the skin fitting. A silencer would be fitted directly after the U bend and the water ejection pipe fitted a good few inches after that to keep the silencer dry, the water ejection  pipe fitting on the this pipe will still need to slant towards to outlet.  Perhaps the pipe from the U bend or silencer can be made to ''about turn ''and brought forwards at a downwards slope even through the rear bulkhead behind which the water ejection pipe could be fitted before the outlet skin fitting over the side.

i really didnt realise those vetus boxes were can be so much trouble...  ive read about a few cases of water going back on google...  your idea sounds great but there is no access to the boat sides for the exhaust exit as there is a fuel tank one side and gas locker the other side...  it would need to exit roughly where it does now but there is some height above the engine to have the inverted u bend from the manifold...   but thanks again for the advice that makes so much more sense...   ordered the new head gasket set so hopefully get it put back together next weekend...   

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8 minutes ago, crosser said:

i really didnt realise those vetus boxes were can be so much trouble...  ive read about a few cases of water going back on google...  your idea sounds great but there is no access to the boat sides for the exhaust exit as there is a fuel tank one side and gas locker the other side...  it would need to exit roughly where it does now but there is some height above the engine to have the inverted u bend from the manifold...   but thanks again for the advice that makes so much more sense...   ordered the new head gasket set so hopefully get it put back together next weekend...   

If you do refit that box I'd fit a drain tap under its bottom at its lowest point and drain it after each run out on the boat.

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9 minutes ago, crosser said:

i really didnt realise those vetus boxes were can be so much trouble...  ive read about a few cases of water going back on google...  your idea sounds great but there is no access to the boat sides for the exhaust exit as there is a fuel tank one side and gas locker the other side...  it would need to exit roughly where it does now but there is some height above the engine to have the inverted u bend from the manifold...   but thanks again for the advice that makes so much more sense...   ordered the new head gasket set so hopefully get it put back together next weekend...   

I've seen a 'few' narrowboats and cannot remember ever seeing a Waterlock in use.

They are fairly standard in some sea-going boats and variants used in built-in diesel generators

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

If you do refit that box I'd fit a drain tap under its bottom at its lowest point and drain it after each run out on the boat.

That'd work but it just another thing to remember to do at the end of each day.

 

I would really suggest getting the system sorted and more 'normal'. It may cost a bit but there looks to be a lot of work to be done in the Engine 'hole' so it can be done at the same time.

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I've seen a 'few' narrowboats and cannot remember ever seeing a Waterlock in use.

They are fairly standard in some sea-going boats and variants used in built-in diesel generators

That'd work but it just another thing to remember to do at the end of each day.

 

I would really suggest getting the system sorted and more 'normal'. It may cost a bit but there looks to be a lot of work to be done in the Engine 'hole' so it can be done at the same time.

You just put a big notice by the engine stop control or key to remind you.

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The tap handle could be extended beyond the box and could be knocked on and off with a stick from on deck without  rumaging down there. Personally I'd rig up an on-off control with Meccano with thin bowden cable and pulley's or Meccano rods and clevices.

  • Happy 2

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I've seen a 'few' narrowboats and cannot remember ever seeing a Waterlock in use.

They are fairly standard in some sea-going boats and variants used in built-in diesel generators

That'd work but it just another thing to remember to do at the end of each day.

 

I would really suggest getting the system sorted and more 'normal'. It may cost a bit but there looks to be a lot of work to be done in the Engine 'hole' so it can be done at the same time.

Agree.Keep the job simple.Flexi exhaust and a silencer that will fit the available space,and a hull fitting next to the exhaust outlet for the cooling water outlet,dispensing with the wet exhaust.

It will be a fiddly awkward job looking at the engine hole photo.I did something similar on my last boat which had an equally tight engine hole,which involved lying on my stomach,hanging inverted in th engine hole,and gingerly standing on the engine bearers,being careful not to pull any wires or cables.It was a difficult job for me,and I am supposed to be able bodied😖 

Wish you the best of luck,and hope you get everything sorted soon.

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, bizzard said:

The tap handle could be extended beyond the box and could be knocked on and off with a stick from on deck without  rumaging down there. Personally I'd rig up an on-off control with Meccano with thin bowden cable and pulley's or Meccano rods and clevices.

Or like on a air tank on a truck or bus  there's a spring loaded tap you can fix A pull cord or chain

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18 hours ago, bizzard said:

The tap handle could be extended beyond the box and could be knocked on and off with a stick from on deck without  rumaging down there. Personally I'd rig up an on-off control with Meccano with thin bowden cable and pulley's or Meccano rods and clevices.

 

20 minutes ago, jacko264 said:

Or like on a air tank on a truck or bus  there's a spring loaded tap you can fix A pull cord or chain

 

But you are going to 'dump' a gallon of water into your nice clean, dry, bilges every night.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But you are going to 'dump' a gallon of water into your nice clean, dry, bilges every night.

Excuse me sir, what’s a clean dry bilge please?

 

Tony

(ex owner of a cruiser stern)

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Excuse me sir, what’s a clean dry bilge please?

 

Tony

(ex owner of a cruiser stern)

Wot I had - cruiser stern (with a pram-hood) and a semi-trad without a hood.

 

When I first saw the engine hole in the Semi-Trad I was amazed. It was painted white with kitchen roll laid in the engine bilge.

Not a spot of oil, not a drop of water. Good engines those Lister LPWS4's.

 

In the 2 years we had it the only reason I had to change the kitchen roll was when I did an oil change and dropped the oil-filter.

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I don't understand the problem with a Vetus waterlock, I,'ve got one on Bee (and it didn't cost me £100 + either, stupid price) but it is put together with a Vetus anti syphon valve on a separate  bit of pipe (and that didn't cost £90+ either, try boat jumbles) trouble free and not complicated. As an aside how the hell do Vetus justify the prices they charge?

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16 hours ago, Bee said:

I don't understand the problem with a Vetus waterlock, I,'ve got one on Bee (and it didn't cost me £100 + either, stupid price) but it is put together with a Vetus anti syphon valve on a separate  bit of pipe (and that didn't cost £90+ either, try boat jumbles) trouble free and not complicated. As an aside how the hell do Vetus justify the prices they charge?

Market forces, dear boy, market forces.

The prices are high because of quality and the market prepared to pay for that!

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7 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Market forces, dear boy, market forces.

The prices are high because of quality and the market prepared to pay for that!

 

Quite so. I never understand why any business should be expected to have to 'justify' their prices. If the market will pay their (suspected excessive) prices, another business will come along soon enough doing the same for less. 

 

There must be *something* Vetus do that makes people choose them over Beta and all the other cheaper firms. It's just that it is not obvious what, to canal boaters.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

There must be *something* Vetus do that makes people choose them over Beta and all the other cheaper firms. It's just that it is not obvious what, to canal boaters.

Yellow paint old boy. It’s very expensive. 

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Quite so. I never understand why any business should be expected to have to 'justify' their prices. If the market will pay their (suspected excessive) prices, another business will come along soon enough doing the same for less. 

 

There must be *something* Vetus do that makes people choose them over Beta and all the other cheaper firms. It's just that it is not obvious what, to canal boaters.


 

Seemples -

Vetus present a polished advertising regime aimed at the seagoing market, imaculate and colourful engine presentation and mebe a large advertising budget.

 

Beta - and I have an interest here as I worked with them as a prospective customer and 'assistant' when Ted Spash was setting up the enterprise aeons ago.

Their presentation is good, but not flashy and their product is very workman-like. But inland waterways  is a limited market and difficult to target 'advertising wise'

Beta will tailor an engine / propulsion system / generating system for your exact needs and probably a system not for boats as well.

 

Methinks Vetus aim at specific requirements because that markint is huge in relation to the small inland marine market.

 

Is that a good enough answer?

 

 

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Is that a good enough answer?

No, it’s far too sensible. 

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24 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Seemples -

Vetus present a polished advertising regime aimed at the seagoing market, imaculate and colourful engine presentation and mebe a large advertising budget.

 

Beta - and I have an interest here as I worked with them as a prospective customer and 'assistant' when Ted Spash was setting up the enterprise aeons ago.

Their presentation is good, but not flashy and their product is very workman-like. But inland waterways  is a limited market and difficult to target 'advertising wise'

Beta will tailor an engine / propulsion system / generating system for your exact needs and probably a system not for boats as well.

 

Methinks Vetus aim at specific requirements because that markint is huge in relation to the small inland marine market.

 

Is that a good enough answer?

 

 

 

I think their world wide sales representation and spares availability has a marked affect on both their costs / pricing and customers choice of engines etc.

If you are cruising and need a part, you can get it pretty much in any country in the world.

 

Volvo Penta would be the only other I can think of that can match the service offered by Vetus, and Volvo prices are similarly 'ridiculous' (£30 for a litre of hydraulic steering oil, I sourced 5 Litres for £15, exactly the same specification, but it didn't say Volvo Penta on the can) For some reason Volvo Penta engines / accessories are not widely used on the UK Inland waterways.

 

 

Screenshot (51).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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