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SailorJerold

Sub £10k Narrowboats

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1 minute ago, SailorJerold said:

I don't know whether to just save up for my own shell, and fit an outboard or tow it my mooring. Start working on the internal fitout etc. The boat builders are all local(ish). I could get a diesel generator in there for my power needs initially and camp in it until I can afford to get an engine fitted.   

Err, maybe sleep on this, no problem on a boat is that simple.

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1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

oh dear .............................    :(

 

Are you still here! Haha. reading it back I can see how stupid that sounds. 

 

Look I get the picture, you may as well throw 10k in the canal rather than buy a boat at that price. Thanks for everyone's helpful advice, I will repost this question again when I have £20k.

 

This thread blew up and I'm grateful for everyone's input. I'm just a man with a dream and hopefully one day i will float past ya. 

 

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37 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

 

Are you still here! Haha. reading it back I can see how stupid that sounds. 

 

Look I get the picture, you may as well throw 10k in the canal rather than buy a boat at that price. Thanks for everyone's helpful advice, I will repost this question again when I have £20k.

 

This thread blew up and I'm grateful for everyone's input. I'm just a man with a dream and hopefully one day i will float past ya. 

 

If you really need to save money, you can buy a GRP in short term... and then sell it, it wont need much maintenance to hold the value...

here is a youtube video of a guy who has done it...

 

 

 

Edited by restlessnomad
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36 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

 

Are you still here! Haha. reading it back I can see how stupid that sounds. 

 

Look I get the picture, you may as well throw 10k in the canal rather than buy a boat at that price. Thanks for everyone's helpful advice, I will repost this question again when I have £20k.

 

This thread blew up and I'm grateful for everyone's input. I'm just a man with a dream and hopefully one day i will float past ya. 

 

Don't lose your dream

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10 hours ago, restlessnomad said:

If you really need to save money, you can buy a GRP in short term... and then sell it, it wont need much maintenance to hold the value...

here is a youtube video of a guy who has done it...

 

 

In fact I thought one of the boats the OP linked to was GRP until I read the spec. personally I am still not sure it is steel. 

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If you need to save on rent why not try vanliving? I did it for 2 years in London but not having a permanent address was becoming an issue with the insurance.

I bought a £500 thing and running costs averaged £180/month for 2 years.

Costs are much cheaper and if you buy a nasty van at least you don't end up at the bottom of some canals.

I am looking at boats as well to save on rents: the main advantage I see on them is more space which can give you more quality of interior/facilities and therefore life; (and easier insurance papers).

Edited by mgollum
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On 03/01/2020 at 17:36, Alan de Enfield said:

Liverpool boat builders closed down several years ago.

 

Yes, must be at least 7 or 8 years since they stopped trading?

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35 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I'm not familiar with the way that internet sites are financed, but it is amazing the LBC still has a site, 'last updated in 2007'.     http://www.liverpoolboatco.co.uk/

That surprises me too: isn't it like a telephone, if you don't pay your bill you get cut off? If the successors to Liverpool Boats HAVE kept on paying the fees, why?

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24 minutes ago, Athy said:

That surprises me too: isn't it like a telephone, if you don't pay your bill you get cut off? If the successors to Liverpool Boats HAVE kept on paying the fees, why?

They may have paid 15 or even 20 years hosting fees in advance. Hosting is pretty cheap. 
 

Or maybe there’s someone somewhere wondering about what that obscure annual direct debit that keeps coming out of their account is for...

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

They may have paid 15 or even 20 years hosting fees in advance. Hosting is pretty cheap. 
 

Or maybe there’s someone somewhere wondering about what that obscure annual direct debit that keeps coming out of their account is for...

And keeping the domain name alive, although that may be done automatically through the hosting company.

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Sub 10k steel boats could easily turn out to need an extra 10k to keep afloat.

20k boats are out there if you know and get lucky but that's twice what stated

OP already has a mooring, suspect leisure but the world and his dog seem to busk that one

Put a boat, any boat, a canoe, a two hundred quid cruiser on the mooring. Start boating.

£10k = possibly a Highbridge, Creighton or similar. GRP and your money would be safe when you want to upgrade

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On 03/01/2020 at 14:03, SailorJerold said:

Thats the conventional wisdom I know. 

 

Have you ever bought a cheap steel boat? 

 

What can go wrong? 

 

I'm trying to think of the possible issues and what it would take to resolve them. 

 

Issues with the hull and superstructure, issues with the engine, when it next needs blacking, what else?

 

Im competent with electrics and carpentry, are there any other boat specific structural/mechanical issues you can add to the list.

 

Even if you pay 20k you are probably pushing these issues a couple of years down the line. I'd rather sort issues myself now and know where I'm up to. 

 

You are not going to get a perfect boat for this price.  Maybe a shell of a small old boat with a working engine and propulsion system is possible though?

 

I was really just wanting to hear from  a few people stupid enough to have done it to ask did the risk pay off or did they regret their purchase.

 

Not that I don't appreciate your input!

 

I honestly don't mind a bit of a project as long as it floats and drives!

The boat that used to be next to me sold on ebay for not huge money, it was a Springer waterbug, when taken from the water the bottom fell out! or should I say a big chunk of it! It would appear that only the water pressure and bilge pump kept it afloat, just think if it had gone for a cruise and caught something in our up to 20 foot deep navigation?

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there's a ferro cement 70' in Brixham started at 99p. It looks like one of those boats that got swept across the pacific by the tsunami or Jaws got there first. Now up at 1.5k,. There may be kit to recover but the disposal costs of a boat like this would be significant. I'm guessing it's a bidding war between people who think it's like a shed, a lick of paint and ready to use. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEABEAST-70ft-Ferro-Cement-Schooner/274179316448

 

ETA: sorry that was supposed to relate to the canals that nor all bargains are what they seem. If starting on a budget, start small and work up in increments. If a £5k bill comes down on you for an engine/steel hull, is the money there? 

Edited by BilgePump

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2 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

there's a ferro cement 70' in Brixham started at 99p. It looks like one of those boats that got swept across the pacific by the tsunami or Jaws got there first. Now up at 1.5k,. There may be kit to recover but the disposal costs of a boat like this would be significant. I'm guessing it's a bidding war between people who think it's like a shed, a lick of paint and ready to use. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEABEAST-70ft-Ferro-Cement-Schooner/274179316448

not sure what I am looking at... lol

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5 hours ago, BilgePump said:

there's a ferro cement 70' in Brixham started at 99p. It looks like one of those boats that got swept across the pacific by the tsunami or Jaws got there first. Now up at 1.5k,. There may be kit to recover but the disposal costs of a boat like this would be significant. I'm guessing it's a bidding war between people who think it's like a shed, a lick of paint and ready to use. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEABEAST-70ft-Ferro-Cement-Schooner/274179316448

 

 

"The vessels is in a distressed sail situation. , Hull is in Poor condition with Significant marine growth on underwater hull and appendages. Significant deterioration of the timber wheel house and deck structures and bulwarks. Where seen at deck level, in the chain locker, lazarette and inside the vessel the ferro cement exhibited signs of corrosion on the visible steel wire mesh. There are numerous local areas where the cement was chipped.  No power on board. Batteries disconnected and removed.

Due to time waster this vessel is back up for sale - The vessel cannot stay in the Harbour -

Please be advised -This vessel is in need of refurbishment and updating and requires purchasers with time and money to invest."

 

So why has anybody bothered to bid this up from 99p to £1,550 ???

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

"The vessels is in a distressed sail situation. , Hull is in Poor condition with Significant marine growth on underwater hull and appendages. Significant deterioration of the timber wheel house and deck structures and bulwarks. Where seen at deck level, in the chain locker, lazarette and inside the vessel the ferro cement exhibited signs of corrosion on the visible steel wire mesh. There are numerous local areas where the cement was chipped.  No power on board. Batteries disconnected and removed.

Due to time waster this vessel is back up for sale - The vessel cannot stay in the Harbour -

Please be advised -This vessel is in need of refurbishment and updating and requires purchasers with time and money to invest."

 

So why has anybody bothered to bid this up from 99p to £1,550 ???

No scrap value at all.

In fact significant disposal costs, I saw a ferrocement yacht cut up and skipped, cost a packet.

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Agree entirely. Some boats have a negative value, more expensive to scrap than value of salvaged items, way too far gone to renovate. This ferro-cement boat struck me as such. Can't imagine anyone who know much about boats wanting it even for free. Hence, I can only assume it's naiive optimists who have placed bids. This boat would be an albatross round the neck of any buyer. 

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I knew that ferrocrete barges were made - and have seen one in Gloucester docks - but I never knew that it was used to build sailing ships.

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They seemed to be very popular projects in the 70s but for every one that got launched, a dozen cast hulls seemed to rot away in boatyards, never finished. Cheap to make a big hull but same expense to fit out and rig. Lots of projects too big for the finances of the diy builder. Insurance on them is a specialist one, even for hulls in good condition. This yacht in Brixham mentions exposed and corroded mesh. Run, run fast. This isn't like a steel plate, a new wooden plank or a glassfibre patch. In technical terms, it's fu**ed.

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On 03/01/2020 at 15:23, Alan de Enfield said:

Just before you 'make the jump' are you 'up to speed' on the costs of maintaining and mooring a boat ?

 

Your mooring costs will vary by location - London can be £10,000 - £15,000 per annum for a liveaboard, the Midlands can be nearer £4,000 - £5,000. Farmers field moorings can be even less.

Mooring costs will also vary with facilities offered, do you want security (gated access), water, electricity, toilet emptying, close to shops, car parking etc etc. - the more you 'get' generally the more expensive they will be.

 

Marinas will often not offer a reduced price for (say) a 30 foot boat because you are still taking up a pontoon that could (say) accommodate a 50 or 60 foot boat. If they need to fill 'space' and get some income, they may do a deal, if the are fairly full, they may not.

 

If you do not need to be in a 'fixed area' for family / work / hospital or whatever reasons and are free to move about then you can 'continuously cruise' without having a mooring. The downside (for some) is that you have to move every few days (usually 14 days) to a new place and you cannot just go A to B to A to B etc, you do need to be actually 'moving about'.

 

In addition to mooring costs and 'general running and maintenance costs, you will need :

Boat licence (a 30 foot boat is about £750 per annum 2020/21 rate)

Boat insurance (fully comprehensive £100-£150 per annum)

Boat Safety Certificate (Boat version of the MoT)

 

Boating is not a 'cheap way' of living even when compared to renting a house.

A 32' mooring in the Midlands does not cost £5000 or anything close to it. 

 

image.png.0aee044d76b112158096a5b55d099aa6.png

 

This is a typical price for a fully serviced residential mooring.  These moorings are linear, with electric and water and elsan/bins/toilets/showers/laundrette onsite. 

 

A leisure mooring would be cheaper.

Edited by doratheexplorer

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9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

A 32' mooring in the Midlands does not cost £5000 or anything close to it. 

It can do :

 

Some marinas can be £5k (ish) 

The BWML one (East Midlands) I was in was £4.8 K as they have a fixed charge for residential (irrespective of length)

A leisure mooring for a 10mt boat would be £2300

 

If I had said that you can get a residential mooring for £1.9k, someone would have said "well I am paying £5k"

 

This is one reason why someone asking how much it costs to 'run a boat' can only be advised from other folks experiences, but the suggestion should always be "check the prices available in the location you want to be in".

There is a big difference between being 'in a city', on the outskirts of a city, or in rural areas.

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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It can do :

 

Some marinas can be £5k (ish) 

The BWML one (East Midlands) I was in was £4.8 K as they have a fixed charge for residential (irrespective of length)

A leisure mooring for a 10mt boat would be £2300

 

If I had said that you can get a residential mooring for £1.9k, someone would have said "well I am paying £5k"

 

This is one reason why someone asking how much it costs to 'run a boat' can only be advised from other folks experiences, but the suggestion should always be "check the prices available in the location you want to be in".

There is a big difference between being 'in a city', on the outskirts of a city, or in rural areas.

But you didn't say you can get a residential mooring for 1.9k.  You said moorings in the midlands are 4-5k which is right at the most extreme expensive end of the market.  Your residential example is a rare exception and is for a 70' mooring.  Only an utter fool would pay that price for a 32' boat to moor, yet you post advice to a newbie which implies that costs are far higher than they are in reality.  Anyone would think you were opposed to anyone new joining the waterways.  By all means don't sugar-coat things, but equally doomsaying is also unhelpful.

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