Jump to content

Sub £10k Narrowboats


SailorJerold

Featured Posts

Returning to the OP's question of sub 10k narrowboats

 

For a first steel boat a dirt cheap 'project' could become very expensive, if you have to pay for drydocking, cranes, welding etc. to fix urgent hull problems. A boatyard doing something up in the spare hours and with no yard fees but lots of experience and facilities, that works. A first-time project for a private individual could put a massive strain on personal finances. I would suspect that 10k just for the contingency fund on any steel narrowboat project would be more prudent. It doesn't go that far on overplating and engine repairs.

 

It's a good bet that a tired and poorly maintained boat will have a less than perfect engine. Inboard diesels are far better than petrol outboards but the cost of replacing one that is knackered would be significant. A broken outboard can be replaced by an old, cheap, small one just to get moving so I wouldn't discount outboard power at the budget boating entry level. They're useless for battery charging, however, and there is the issue of petrol being more dangerous. Just don't store fuel when it's not necessary. I bet there's rarely more than 5litres in my fuel tank normally but that's still enough to go ten miles out and back to the mooring, although it is only 5hp pushing less than a ton.

 

It would be prudent to see beneath the waterline on any boat before buying but I would be far happier to work on a visual inspection myself of a GRP without paying for a surveyor than trusting my own judgement with a steel hull. I would expect to see fewer GRP hulls than old steel hulls with under the water issues. As someone mentioned before, surveys on rejected boats soon start to diminish the budget and you end up hoping the £7k boat you are now having surveyed will be better than the £10k one rejected three surveys ago. Bet is it won't be.

 

There will always be bargain boats, ones that the seller wants to sell quickly and with no hassle, eg; a boat full of cobwebs and leaves could hide a perfect hull and winterised engine where a bilge pump has kept it dry for months whilst the deceased owner's family have dealt with the estate and just want a quick private sale, but I would question why noone on the ground, with knowledge of the boat didn't pick up on the sale if it is such a bargain. Similarly ones in yards.  Possibly, some cheap project boats may well be exposed to a wider online market because a quick local sale hasn't happened due to lack of interest at the price.

 

The OP mentioned their mooring in Cheshire.  As they pay for it, it's safe to assume they know the cost of their chosen mooring location. It won't be residential, we may presume, but someone could easily work round that by cruising the Cheshire waterways at times and having a land based address too. A few people effectively live on our CRT non-res towpath moorings without impact on the rest of us in the line of boats. Again, I'm going to suggest going the whole hog and putting anything GRP on the mooring to start off with. Start boating and having your ear close to the water for the next step up. A 22' boat wouldn't be a liveaboard but licence would be an extra £11 or 12/wk iirc., far less than being paid for the empty mooring spot already. Such boats can be found for a few thousand upwards and are good summer weekenders and winter hideaways for the hardy. Yes, some people do live on such boats, but it's doubtful it could be recommended. The good thing about a forty year old GRP boat is that it shouldn't deteriorate or lose any more value over the next few months/years. Cheap to maintain whilst looking out for the next boat. If the whole 10k budget is available now but no more then I would still stick with a GRP boat for peace of mind. 

 

At 27k say for a new 45' sailaway, steel nb, even with the time and skills to complete, the cost of materials would still be significant. The 40k budget point could easily be passed and it wouldn't really be habitable until that point had been reached. I remember it taking my dad over a hundred days to get the lined sailaway he bought ready to cruise and that was still far from finished and not liveaboard. 

 

As for a first steel boat I would imagine 20k plus some contingency would be more likely to give the OP a boat that can be lived aboard, improved and enjoyed. It would be far from perfect but a sound hull and engine should be possible at that price point, albeit in an older, more basic boat.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP (cab driver!) not sure if you're still following this but... "Saw this and thought of you" Hope link works

 

It is someone's unfinished project but possibly with the right bits finished/unfinished if you see what I mean. 

 

I'm sure more knowledgable ppl than me will be along shortly to add advice / caution if required... But a part-finished project might be the way to go if you aren't keen on a GRP (white 'yoghurt pot' type boat) and can keep your flat for a little while. 

 

Canal kisses, 

Xx

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just weighing in with my experience- Bought a GRP (Highbridge 32) for sub £5k, and I've lived aboard comfortably for nearly 3 years now with absolutely no intention of giving it up soon! Probably spent about £3k on improving it and I've done all the work but even if you'd paid for some then Ii would still be in budget. 

 

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Canal-Narrow-Boats-for-sale/highbridge-32/285535

 

Here's one local to you, fit a solid fuel stove and you've still got £3k in your pocket when it's on your mooring 

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

Just weighing in with my experience- Bought a GRP (Highbridge 32) for sub £5k, and I've lived aboard comfortably for nearly 3 years now with absolutely no intention of giving it up soon! Probably spent about £3k on improving it and I've done all the work but even if you'd paid for some then Ii would still be in budget. 

 

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Canal-Narrow-Boats-for-sale/highbridge-32/285535

 

Here's one local to you, fit a solid fuel stove and you've still got £3k in your pocket when it's on your mooring 

That looks like a cracking little boat that wont have steel boat problems looks tidy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

OP (cab driver!) not sure if you're still following this but... "Saw this and thought of you" Hope link works

 

It is someone's unfinished project but possibly with the right bits finished/unfinished if you see what I mean. 

 

I'm sure more knowledgable ppl than me will be along shortly to add advice / caution if required... But a part-finished project might be the way to go if you aren't keen on a GRP (white 'yoghurt pot' type boat) and can keep your flat for a little while. 

 

Canal kisses, 

Xx

Tough boats these Highbridge, the fronts are reputed to be an inch thick! That one looks to be all there, good with a clear out and a bit of TLC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As the evolution of the older Dawncraft boats, the Highbridge had great pedigree and seem to be an ideal option for those with more than is needed for a small Norman/Shetland etc but not enough for a sound steel boat. Nowhere near as ubiquitous as the Dawncraft 25s but look more narrowboaty and seem to be as tough as boots, with good use of space. I imagine they make a great liveaboard as Harry's 3 years have proven.

 

As for what someone needs to live aboard. I once sold a Buckingham 20, totally basic, nowhere near as nice as W+T's, just with new windows, floors, bulkheads and fixed seats, cupboards etc, otherwise bare and no engine. The guy paid a lot less than a grand and planned to live on it he then told me. A couple of years later, last summer, I saw it again, about 500 yards from where I'd launched it for him, still afloat, with no improvement work done at all but sporting a solid fuel chimney. It was breasted up to a narrowboat on private offside moorings where it must have been since being sold. Still no engine! I don't know whether he had stayed on that one or got something bigger and just using it for storage, or whether it had been sold on, but it was certainly still being licensed and used. There was also a young guy lived on a tiny 20' yacht at a marina I once moored in. It had electric, laundry and showers so the facilities made it possible. Saw one guy going down Marple locks last year living aboard a 20' Norman. That's hardcore in the winter. The OP is not doing this out of necessity but out of desire and seeming logic so he will  only want to live aboard when it will be fun and not just tolerable or at worst unbearable and detrimental to health, both mental and physical so I certainly wouldn't suggest trying to live on something so small. However, it may be easier to start off weekending on a 20' boat and gradually slip into living aboard when a larger boat can be purchased. Boats like the Highbridge, Creighton, big Norman and Dawncraft represent excellent value for money and relatively low maintenance costs when compared to similarly priced/sized steel boats. 

 

Off the top of my head. OP mentions 10k/yr rent for a flat. Mooring, licence, BSS, insurance, engine service should come in south of the £3k mark with his current mooring for something 30-35'. If a leisure mooring then possibly an accommodating relative could provide a postal address, and I imagine for working in a licensed job a land based address rather than marina facilities makes paperwork, insurance etc easier. That may entail someone losing a single person council tax discount or other which would have to be taken into account and paid for, but even if this is £500/yr the cost of keeping the boat in the water is still only £70/wk. Maintenance, repairs & improvement costs would depend on what boat was started out with. If that was a nice Highbridge say, the OP could put aside most of his savings on rent and within a few years have a decent pot for a sound steel boat should he still want one (especially when the Highbridge would return its purchase price). If a 10k steel project goes wrong, however, someone could end up paying yard fees, hull and engine repairs, rent at home, mooring etc, to still only end up with an adequate, old and not as desirable boat, that isn't worth the money invested in it and has kept the owner confined to land still paying rent. Project boats can be forty plus years old. For a steel boat, especially one poorly maintained, forty is getting into old age and requiring significant healthcare costs. A GRP hull at forty years old is usually still sound enough and will have heaven knows how much life left in it. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

As the evolution of the older Dawncraft boats, the Highbridge had great pedigree and seem to be an ideal option for those with more than is needed for a small Norman/Shetland etc but not enough for a sound steel boat. Nowhere near as ubiquitous as the Dawncraft 25s but look more narrowboaty and seem to be as tough as boots, with good use of space. I imagine they make a great liveaboard as Harry's 3 years have proven.

 

As for what someone needs to live aboard. I once sold a Buckingham 20, totally basic, nowhere near as nice as W+T's, just with new windows, floors, bulkheads and fixed seats, cupboards etc, otherwise bare and no engine. The guy paid a lot less than a grand and planned to live on it he then told me. A couple of years later, last summer, I saw it again, about 500 yards from where I'd launched it for him, still afloat, with no improvement work done at all but sporting a solid fuel chimney. It was breasted up to a narrowboat on private offside moorings where it must have been since being sold. Still no engine! I don't know whether he had stayed on that one or got something bigger and just using it for storage, or whether it had been sold on, but it was certainly still being licensed and used. There was also a young guy lived on a tiny 20' yacht at a marina I once moored in. It had electric, laundry and showers so the facilities made it possible. Saw one guy going down Marple locks last year living aboard a 20' Norman. That's hardcore in the winter. The OP is not doing this out of necessity but out of desire and seeming logic so he will  only want to live aboard when it will be fun and not just tolerable or at worst unbearable and detrimental to health, both mental and physical so I certainly wouldn't suggest trying to live on something so small. However, it may be easier to start off weekending on a 20' boat and gradually slip into living aboard when a larger boat can be purchased. Boats like the Highbridge, Creighton, big Norman and Dawncraft represent excellent value for money and relatively low maintenance costs when compared to similarly priced/sized steel boats. 

 

Off the top of my head. OP mentions 10k/yr rent for a flat. Mooring, licence, BSS, insurance, engine service should come in south of the £3k mark with his current mooring for something 30-35'. If a leisure mooring then possibly an accommodating relative could provide a postal address, and I imagine for working in a licensed job a land based address rather than marina facilities makes paperwork, insurance etc easier. That may entail someone losing a single person council tax discount or other which would have to be taken into account and paid for, but even if this is £500/yr the cost of keeping the boat in the water is still only £70/wk. Maintenance, repairs & improvement costs would depend on what boat was started out with. If that was a nice Highbridge say, the OP could put aside most of his savings on rent and within a few years have a decent pot for a sound steel boat should he still want one (especially when the Highbridge would return its purchase price). If a 10k steel project goes wrong, however, someone could end up paying yard fees, hull and engine repairs, rent at home, mooring etc, to still only end up with an adequate, old and not as desirable boat, that isn't worth the money invested in it and has kept the owner confined to land still paying rent. Project boats can be forty plus years old. For a steel boat, especially one poorly maintained, forty is getting into old age and requiring significant healthcare costs. A GRP hull at forty years old is usually still sound enough and will have heaven knows how much life left in it. 

Virtual greenie mate I am had tempted by the highbrige myself 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
16 hours ago, unset said:

Me, I was hunting for Highbridge or similar for the last couple of months to get back on the water with a small budget. It seems to have been well cared for considering it is 38 years old, engine well maintained but interior has had no updating from original.

Well done it looked a good one from the pictures 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, unset said:

Me, I was hunting for Highbridge or similar for the last couple of months to get back on the water with a small budget. It seems to have been well cared for considering it is 38 years old, engine well maintained but interior has had no updating from original.

Boater Sam started a post, Highbridge listed on there. Ebay sale.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Narrowboat-Dawncraft-Highbridge-30ft-fibreglass/114062354252?hash=item1a8ea5674c:g:MWAAAOSwFPpdJ6Nk 

Edited by Mike Hurley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, unset said:

Me, I was hunting for Highbridge or similar for the last couple of months to get back on the water with a small budget. It seems to have been well cared for considering it is 38 years old, engine well maintained but interior has had no updating from original.

Not going to hijack the thread too far but have you found the makers plate in the cupboard opposite the cooker? A few of us owners were trying to work out how many were built, mine is number 27 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

Not going to hijack the thread too far but have you found the makers plate in the cupboard opposite the cooker? A few of us owners were trying to work out how many were built, mine is number 27 

Will check when I am next with the boat and let you know. May well have some questions to ask you by then too, if that's ok?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

Just came across this post. I wonder how the OP made out? 
I too am looking for the elusive sub 10K floating liveaboard cruiser that's not a money pit, as that's what I can manage at the moment.
Finding a boat is extra tricky with lockdown, though right now would be ideal as the CRC is not forcing cruisers to move. It'd give me a chance to settle into and work on a boat a bit while I still have a place to stay.

I have some skills and don't mind cosmetic work, but I also have a full time job and can't undertake a "project" boat or shell. 
This boat looks perfect, except for the bottom re-plate!

I'd like a smaller cruiser stern boat. max say 50' but would consider sub 30. I lived and travelled in a van for 5 months so I have an idea of what tiny living is about. 

I don't know anything about fiberglass but If it makes sense I'm happy to consider... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A GRP would be the best bet. There is a highbridge GRP at Streethay wharf that the owner was thinking of selling around a year ago. Was still there a few days ago. Have occasionally unblocked the deck drain holes of leaves to allow the water out, as he said it goes under the rear door and enters the boat.

 

Looks like a good space to live on and looks solid.  You could spend 10k on steel work easily.

 

My Sister has a 23foot Springer Water bug. My Sister visits for weekends. It's quite a good layout. Inboard 2 cylinder Diesel. Added solid fuel stove. Already been overplated in 4mm steel. Had to raise the gas locker floor and drain to bring above water line, due to extra weight. Quite characterful. Not sure that I would want to live on full time after living on my 50ft trad! Good weekend boat.

 

I had also thought of a sailaway and discounted it, due to not enough funds and the RCD side of fitting it out. I refitted my present boat kitchen and bathroom while living on it and it was a nightmare with lack of space to put everything and  try and work in a tight space. Even worse if winter. 

The one good thing with a sailaway is everything is new.

 

If you want a boat now look at GRP, if not save up more.

 

My costs on living on a 50 ft narrow boat for 8 years is much cheaper than renting a house. Just myself, 41, no kids. Self employed, non smoker/drinker.

I have a residential mooring in the midlands. £765 quarterly.

Boat insurance £170 a year.

BSC every 4 years £150

Boat Licence.  £886.00. Paid in full, get a bit of discount. Price based on a 50ft boat

Last blacked around a year ago. £450 At the boat yard.

Water included in mooring fees.

Electric 19ppkw If memory serves! Card top up.

 

I always have a buffer of 10k in reserve to cover the cost of  over plating. Last year had a new gearbox, blacking, 8 anodes and the bill was £2,400

 

Plus general living/winter heating costs.

 

I look at it that I could be paying £600 per month on a house rental plus bills, so better off on the boat, plus I actually like it! It suits my current situation as just me and no partner/kids. I doubt I could ever afford a house on an income of between 6-8k a year.

 

James.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kellyjllek said:

Just came across this post. I wonder how the OP made out? 
I too am looking for the elusive sub 10K floating liveaboard cruiser that's not a money pit, as that's what I can manage at the moment.
Finding a boat is extra tricky with lockdown, though right now would be ideal as the CRC is not forcing cruisers to move. It'd give me a chance to settle into and work on a boat a bit while I still have a place to stay.

I have some skills and don't mind cosmetic work, but I also have a full time job and can't undertake a "project" boat or shell. 
This boat looks perfect, except for the bottom re-plate!

I'd like a smaller cruiser stern boat. max say 50' but would consider sub 30. I lived and travelled in a van for 5 months so I have an idea of what tiny living is about. 

I don't know anything about fiberglass but If it makes sense I'm happy to consider... 

 

My Sister has one. Good boat and thankfully overplated already. From memory around 4k in 2017! My sisters is also diesel. We paid £8,500 for it around 2 years ago. Spent around £12 in total with buying/doing jobs on it.

The water bug is not flat bottomed. It has a curved V hull, so steel needs bending to shape. Not all boat yards have the facilities to black them either, so bear in mind they cost more to maintain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kellyjllek said:

 

This boat looks perfect, except for the bottom re-plate!

Bear in mind this is powered by an outboard motor. Doesn't take up room inside, but petrol is more expensive, rarely available canalside, and the ability to recharge your batteries will be minimal.

It's also very small, although the waterbug does make good use of the available space.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, canals are us? said:

I had also thought of a sailaway and discounted it, due to not enough funds and the RCD side of fitting it out. I refitted my present boat kitchen and bathroom while living on it and it was a nightmare with lack of space to put everything and  try and work in a tight space. Even worse if winter. 

The one good thing with a sailaway is everything is new.

Good stuff.  Yeah I'd in London. I'm too old to play houseshare, and the idea of playing £500/month in a shitty area, to ££££/month for a bedsit; well I'd rather rough it on a boat... 

My buddy says to get a sailaway. He knows I could go 'bug' size and survive, so he's like, "go sailaway and just finish one room to live" (like my van), and then have all the time in the world to finish the rest. 

It's an idea, and I could make sure to do it right and learn a whole bunch in the process. I must say though when I see a widebeam from 2011 and wonder why it's going for £53,000, it's pretty obvious someone finished it who didn't know what they were doing! So it's probably much easier to do a bad job than what you intend. 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Bear in mind this is powered by an outboard motor. Doesn't take up room inside, but petrol is more expensive, rarely available canalside, and the ability to recharge your batteries will be minimal.

It's also very small, although the waterbug does make good use of the available space.

Very interesting as I didn't consider the issue of it being gasoline. 

 

You know how this type is considered a waterbug... is there a term or 30 or 40 foot boats that's different than the 50+ footers? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, kellyjllek said:

e. 

 

You know how this type is considered a waterbug... is there a term or 30 or 40 foot boats that's different than the 50+ footers? 

Waterbug was Springer's name for that class of boat. Some of their longer boats, from 1983 onwards, were marketed as the "Samson", but that term is not in general use. Common sizes were 30', 34' and 36' and, as mentioned above, they made good use of space. Whether you can find one for £10,000 which does not require extensive work is a debatable point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Hi All. Maybe I'll start a new topic but wanted to let you know I've agreed sale on a relatively inexpensive Springer in London, subject to survey. Ove the past year or so I PM'ed a couple of members for some private advice and I really appreciate that; one in particular was of great help  as I made this offer and decision. 

 

However the seller is away until August and we've got an agreement in place that if it is insurable and passes a survey with only "x" amount in repairs needed, than it'll go ahead. Obviously there is risks with everything, and defining what is "needed" for sure is is next to impossible. But the seller has been forthright with every issue they know about and I really bonded well with them. I know business is business but I think it does help that they appear friendly seem to be trying to work with me! . The boat has been sitting in a leisure mooring for a long while so hopefully it has not deteriorated too much over that time. I sense the seller is only selling now because they have moved out of the country, and probably should have done it a while ago but was sort of hoping not too.

 

Anyway, the Springer is 1981. It's 28'. has a little diesel engine that appears to work. It will need a lot of TLC and as is notorious with springers I assume it will need hull work which hopefully will be doable. What I'm starting to do now is figure out what kind of insurance, which company to go with, and then arranging a surveyor for August, and hoping we can book the drydock (which is hopefully available at the leisure mooring site)...    Anyway, lots to learn and figure out! 

 

The boat though seems overall  in much better looking condition than most others I've seen around the same price. This does not look like a project boat at all, but I know in many ways it probably is! I plan this as a temporary boat to see if I can even handle boat life. I would hope to maintain and improve it a bit, and if things work out, upsize in the future.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, kellyjllek said:

Hi All. Maybe I'll start a new topic but wanted to let you know I've agreed sale on a relatively inexpensive Springer in London, subject to survey. Ove the past year or so I PM'ed a couple of members for some private advice and I really appreciate that; one in particular was of great help  as I made this offer and decision. 

 

However the seller is away until August and we've got an agreement in place that if it is insurable and passes a survey with only "x" amount in repairs needed, than it'll go ahead. Obviously there is risks with everything, and defining what is "needed" for sure is is next to impossible. But the seller has been forthright with every issue they know about and I really bonded well with them. I know business is business but I think it does help that they appear friendly seem to be trying to work with me! . The boat has been sitting in a leisure mooring for a long while so hopefully it has not deteriorated too much over that time. I sense the seller is only selling now because they have moved out of the country, and probably should have done it a while ago but was sort of hoping not too.

 

Anyway, the Springer is 1981. It's 28'. has a little diesel engine that appears to work. It will need a lot of TLC and as is notorious with springers I assume it will need hull work which hopefully will be doable. What I'm starting to do now is figure out what kind of insurance, which company to go with, and then arranging a surveyor for August, and hoping we can book the drydock (which is hopefully available at the leisure mooring site)...    Anyway, lots to learn and figure out! 

 

The boat though seems overall  in much better looking condition than most others I've seen around the same price. This does not look like a project boat at all, but I know in many ways it probably is! I plan this as a temporary boat to see if I can even handle boat life. I would hope to maintain and improve it a bit, and if things work out, upsize in the future.  

 

 

 

 

 

Glad it looks to be working out for you.

Keep in touch as you get the survey done and hopefully you'll be a 'boater' in the next few weeks.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.