Sub £10k Narrowboats

[SailorJerold]

I'm new to narrowboating, have been on a holiday or two. 

 

Every so often a 32 ft narrowboat comes up for less than 10k on ebay etc and it always tempts me to take a punt on it. 

 

Is this a reasonable price for a small oldish boat in working order direct from a private seller? 

 

What is the cheapest boat you have bought and lived on for any length of time? 

 

Did you regret your purchase?

 

What are the dangers and pitfalls to look out for when buying an old boat?

 

I realise that these are really general questions but I'm just interested in peoples personal experience. 

 

 

[Boater Sam]

36 foot sunk narrowboat, £500 after it was recovered.

Dumped the rubbish and furniture. Welded it up, cleaned it out. Fixed the electrics and gas. Tidied some of the paintwork by stripping it and priming. Sorted the engine and gearbox oils etc.  Had it ultrasonically thickness tested, New safety certificate, blacked the hull. New batteries.

Flogged it on ebay where it stood on the dry for around £8k if I remember correctly.

[SailorJerold]

Nice one, if in good working order sounds like a bargain for the person that bought it to be fair!

Edited January 3, 2020 by SailorJerold
To add.

[Boater Sam]

Just now, SailorJerold said:

Nice one, if in good working order sounds like a bargain!

I thought so, it was an ugly beastie though, can't remember whose hull but it was a bit unusual in that the diesel tank was crescent moon shape at the stern, which was very half circle shape.

I did know of one other similar but it was a long time ago and lots of welding rods have been used since then.

[Murflynn]

there will always be exceptions but, for the unwary, it is likely that any really cheap steel boat will end up as a money pit.

 

10K might buy a GRP cruiser in half-decent condition, but a steel hulled vessel is another kettle of fish.

[GUMPY]

Sub £10k you will always get a much better fibreglass boat than a narrowboat.

[restlessnomad]

1 hour ago, SailorJerold said:

I'm new to narrowboating, have been on a holiday or two. 

 

Every so often a 32 ft narrowboat comes up for less than 10k on ebay etc and it always tempts me to take a punt on it. 

 

Is this a reasonable price for a small oldish boat in working order direct from a private seller? 

 

What is the cheapest boat you have bought and lived on for any length of time? 

 

Did you regret your purchase?

 

What are the dangers and pitfalls to look out for when buying an old boat?

 

I realise that these are really general questions but I'm just interested in peoples personal experience. 

 

 

the general advice of the forum is, if you are asking the question, you should not buy the boat, boats at lower end of scale are project boat which needs a lot of money and time, and most people want to enjoy living in narrowboat not cleaning/building/maintaining it.

[SailorJerold]

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Sub £10k you will always get a much better fibreglass boat than a narrowboat.

44 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

there will always be exceptions but, for the unwary, it is likely that any really cheap steel boat will end up as a money pit.

 

10K might buy a GRP cruiser in half-decent condition, but a steel hulled vessel is another kettle of fish.

Thats the conventional wisdom I know. 

 

Have you ever bought a cheap steel boat? 

 

What can go wrong? 

 

I'm trying to think of the possible issues and what it would take to resolve them. 

 

Issues with the hull and superstructure, issues with the engine, when it next needs blacking, what else?

 

Im competent with electrics and carpentry, are there any other boat specific structural/mechanical issues you can add to the list.

 

Even if you pay 20k you are probably pushing these issues a couple of years down the line. I'd rather sort issues myself now and know where I'm up to. 

 

You are not going to get a perfect boat for this price.  Maybe a shell of a small old boat with a working engine and propulsion system is possible though?

 

I was really just wanting to hear from  a few people stupid enough to have done it to ask did the risk pay off or did they regret their purchase.

 

Not that I don't appreciate your input!

 

13 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

the general advice of the forum is, if you are asking the question, you should not buy the boat, boats at lower end of scale are project boat which needs a lot of money and time, and most people want to enjoy living in narrowboat not cleaning/building/maintaining it.

I honestly don't mind a bit of a project as long as it floats and drives!

[Arthur Marshall]

I imagine mine will go for under 10k when I finally sell it. It's been resteeled twice, so in perfectly good nick, but very old style layout inside and as I refitted it, not to a magnificent standard. 40 foot with a 27 foot cabin, so quite small, old Lister much refurbished.

All I'll want for it is enough to buy a small cruiser so I can stay on the water and potter about. It cost me eight grand thirty years ago and it'll be nice if it goes to someone who needs it as much as I did. It all depends, I think, on what you want a boat for. 

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

Thats the conventional wisdom I know. 

 

Have you ever bought a cheap steel boat? 

 

What can go wrong? 

 

I'm trying to think of the possible issues and what it would take to resolve them. 

 

Issues with the hull and superstructure, issues with the engine, when it next needs blacking, what else?

 

Im competent with electrics and carpentry, are there any other boat specific structural/mechanical issues you can add to the list.

 

Even if you pay 20k you are probably pushing these issues a couple of years down the line. I'd rather sort issues myself now and know where I'm up to. 

 

You are not going to get a perfect boat for this price.  Maybe a shell of a small old boat with a working engine and propulsion system is possible though?

 

I was really just wanting to hear from  a few people stupid enough to have done it to ask did the risk pay off or did they regret their purchase.

 

Not that I don't appreciate your input!

 

I honestly don't mind a bit of a project as long as it floats and drives!

What does go wrong.

 

Integral water tank top/deck floor rotted.

Gas lockers rotted through.

So much rust under the floor that there are no knees and braces left.

Weed hatch falling off.

Hull sides warn away over rear swim.

Baseplate lost all corners, thin.

Skin cooling tank rotted inside swim.

Roof cross braces gone.

Cabin sides rusted away around windows and roof vents same.

Honey tank leaked.

Front bulkhead rotted away from floor.

All over deep pitting of hull.

Windows unusable.

Diesel tank leaking into rudder tube.

Hull perforated behind rubbing strakes.

 

All of which are expensive and difficult to fix. All occur regularly. Any 2 or 3 will right the boat off if it has not already sunk.

[SailorJerold]

6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

What does go wrong.

 

Integral water tank top/deck floor rotted.

Gas lockers rotted through.

So much rust under the floor that there are no knees and braces left.

Weed hatch falling off.

Hull sides warn away over rear swim.

Baseplate lost all corners, thin.

Skin cooling tank rotted inside swim.

Roof cross braces gone.

Cabin sides rusted away around windows and roof vents same.

Honey tank leaked.

Front bulkhead rotted away from floor.

All over deep pitting of hull.

Windows unusable.

Diesel tank leaking into rudder tube.

Hull perforated behind rubbing strakes.

 

All of which are expensive and difficult to fix. All occur regularly. Any 2 or 3 will right the boat off if it has not already sunk.

Jeez. Quite a list. I mean you can get a brand new insulated shell with tanks for 13k. 

 

Whats the going rate for a 2nd hand engine for a 30ft boat? Whats the average price of an engine installation?

 

If your doing the internal fit yourself is it cheaper to buy a brand new shell than a 2nd hand project boat? The boatyard adds around £10k for the engine to be fitted, is there money to be saved there?

 

I don't believe that you have to shell out £30-40k for a small narrowboat in good working order. 

 

Let me know if you pick up another sinker. 

 

 

[restlessnomad]

4 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

Jeez. Quite a list. I mean you can get a brand new insulated shell with tanks for 13k. 

 

Whats the going rate for a 2nd hand engine for a 30ft boat? Whats the average price of an engine installation?

 

If your doing the internal fit yourself is it cheaper to buy a brand new shell than a 2nd hand project boat? The boatyard adds around £10k for the engine to be fitted, is there money to be saved there?

 

I don't believe that you have to shell out £30-40k for a small narrowboat in good working order. 

 

Let me know if you pick up another sinker. 

 

 

I think you can find decent small(<40ft) boat on apolloduck for around 20k, one that is not falling off and immediately liveable but need maintenance and modification to your taste.

[SailorJerold]

49 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I imagine mine will go for under 10k when I finally sell it. It's been resteeled twice, so in perfectly good nick, but very old style layout inside and as I refitted it, not to a magnificent standard. 40 foot with a 27 foot cabin, so quite small, old Lister much refurbished.

All I'll want for it is enough to buy a small cruiser so I can stay on the water and potter about. It cost me eight grand thirty years ago and it'll be nice if it goes to someone who needs it as much as I did. It all depends, I think, on what you want a boat for

Well it would be my house. But im not looking for anything fancy. Im 30 with no prospect of a mortgage and am currently paying around £10k per annum in rent.

 

We should keep in touch if you are not selling it immediately it would be a couple more months before I have the cash together. 

27 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

I think you can find decent small(<40ft) boat on apolloduck for around 20k, one that is not falling off and immediately liveable but need maintenance and modification to your taste.

I'll check them out, thanks. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by SailorJerold
To add.

[restlessnomad]

18 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

Well it would be my house. But im not looking for anything fancy. Im 30 with no prospect of a mortgage and am currently paying around £10k per annum in rent.

 

We should keep in touch if you are not selling it immediately it would be a couple more months before I have the cash together. 

I'll check them out, thanks. 

what do you do for a living and where do you live (if you dont mind me asking).

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

Well it would be my house. But im not looking for anything fancy. Im 30 with no prospect of a mortgage and am currently paying around £10k per annum in rent.

Just before you 'make the jump' are you 'up to speed' on the costs of maintaining and mooring a boat ?

 

Your mooring costs will vary by location - London can be £10,000 - £15,000 per annum for a liveaboard, the Midlands can be nearer £4,000 - £5,000. Farmers field moorings can be even less.

Mooring costs will also vary with facilities offered, do you want security (gated access), water, electricity, toilet emptying, close to shops, car parking etc etc. - the more you 'get' generally the more expensive they will be.

 

Marinas will often not offer a reduced price for (say) a 30 foot boat because you are still taking up a pontoon that could (say) accommodate a 50 or 60 foot boat. If they need to fill 'space' and get some income, they may do a deal, if the are fairly full, they may not.

 

If you do not need to be in a 'fixed area' for family / work / hospital or whatever reasons and are free to move about then you can 'continuously cruise' without having a mooring. The downside (for some) is that you have to move every few days (usually 14 days) to a new place and you cannot just go A to B to A to B etc, you do need to be actually 'moving about'.

 

In addition to mooring costs and 'general running and maintenance costs, you will need :

Boat licence (a 30 foot boat is about £750 per annum 2020/21 rate)

Boat insurance (fully comprehensive £100-£150 per annum)

Boat Safety Certificate (Boat version of the MoT)

 

Boating is not a 'cheap way' of living even when compared to renting a house.

[Boater Sam]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just before you 'make the jump' are you 'up to speed' on the costs of maintaining and mooring a boat ?

 

Your mooring costs will vary by location - London can be £10,000 - £15,000 per annum for a liveaboard, the Midlands can be nearer £4,000 - £5,000. Farmers field moorings can be even less.

Mooring costs will also vary with facilities offered, do you want security (gated access), water, electricity, toilet emptying, close to shops, car parking etc etc. - the more you 'get' generally the more expensive they will be.

 

Marinas will often not offer a reduced price for (say) a 30 foot boat because you are still taking up a pontoon that could (say) accommodate a 50 or 60 foot boat. If they need to fill 'space' and get some income, they may do a deal, if the are fairly full, they may not.

 

If you do not need to be in a 'fixed area' for family / work / hospital or whatever reasons and are free to move about then you can 'continuously cruise' without having a mooring. The downside (for some) is that you have to move every few days (usually 14 days) to a new place and you cannot just go A to B to A to B etc, you do need to be actually 'moving about'.

 

In addition to mooring costs and 'general running and maintenance costs, you will need :

Boat licence (a 30 foot boat is about £750 per annum 2020/21 rate)

Boat insurance (fully comprehensive £100-£150 per annum)

Boat Safety Certificate (Boat version of the MoT)

 

Boating is not a 'cheap way' of living even when compared to renting a house.

Careful Alan, you will get accused of being negative as I have been.

Its sad that with all the information available on here and elsewhere that there are still the potential boaters who are unaware that living on a boat in a decent way is never going to be cheap.

I rent out flats in the north of Lancashire that are far cheaper than living on any boat, never mind the folk who want to live in London areas.

[SailorJerold]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just before you 'make the jump' are you 'up to speed' on the costs of maintaining and mooring a boat ?

 

Your mooring costs will vary by location - London can be £10,000 - £15,000 per annum for a liveaboard, the Midlands can be nearer £4,000 - £5,000. Farmers field moorings can be even less.

Mooring costs will also vary with facilities offered, do you want security (gated access), water, electricity, toilet emptying, close to shops, car parking etc etc. - the more you 'get' generally the more expensive they will be.

 

Marinas will often not offer a reduced price for (say) a 30 foot boat because you are still taking up a pontoon that could (say) accommodate a 50 or 60 foot boat. If they need to fill 'space' and get some income, they may do a deal, if the are fairly full, they may not.

 

If you do not need to be in a 'fixed area' for family / work / hospital or whatever reasons and are free to move about then you can 'continuously cruise' without having a mooring. The downside (for some) is that you have to move every few days (usually 14 days) to a new place and you cannot just go A to B to A to B etc, you do need to be actually 'moving about'.

 

In addition to mooring costs and 'general running and maintenance costs, you will need :

Boat licence (a 30 foot boat is about £750 per annum 2020/21 rate)

Boat insurance (fully comprehensive £100-£150 per annum)

Boat Safety Certificate (Boat version of the MoT)

 

Boating is not a 'cheap way' of living even when compared to renting a house.

Yes I am aware of the associated costs, I already pay £1365 per annum for a CRT mooring of up to 50 ft near a small village just outside my town. Its currently unoccupied pending me buying a boat but wanted to secure the location.

 

Whilst I understand its not necessarily cheaper and that costs can be a bit lumpy and awkward in terms of when they are due. It will be my boat. And all the money I save day to day will go into the kitty for repairs.

 

Plus you cant put a price on the satisfaction of not paying down someone elses mortgage whilst they are living it up on their boat!!

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by SailorJerold

[Boater Sam]

?  Plus you cant put a price on the satisfaction of not paying down someone elses mortgage whilst they are living it up on their boat!   ☹️

 

Oooh that hurt!

 

A )  I don't have any mortgage.

B )  My property is rented out at a low rate so I pay less tax.

C ) I am not at present living it up on my boat, we overwinter in the Philippines.

D ) We worked damn hard and long to get where we are and sour grapes because we live so well is uncalled for.

Sam.

[David Mack]

The problem with a sub £10k narrowboat is that the tin worm may have got to it to the extent that it is at risk of becoming a sub (marine).

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

sour grapes because we live so well is uncalled for.

Sam.

I don't think there was any such intention on the Sailor's part.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Athy

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, SailorJerold said:

I already pay £1365 per annum for a CRT mooring of up to 50 ft

You have done exceeding well to secure a C&RT RESIDENTIAL mooring for that sort of figure.

C&RT have very few properly residential moorings and they normally sell (rent) for much higher than that.

[Murflynn]

there's none so deaf as those who don't want to listen.

 

you asked a question.  if you don't like the answers you are on the wrong forum.

 

perhaps you should try a forum dealing in fairy-tales that always end with living happily ever after.

[SailorJerold]

34 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Careful Alan, you will get accused of being negative as I have been.

Its sad that with all the information available on here and elsewhere that there are still the potential boaters who are unaware that living on a boat in a decent way is never going to be cheap.

I rent out flats in the north of Lancashire that are far cheaper than living on any boat, never mind the folk who want to live in London areas.

Who said cheap?

 

It is for a fact cheaper. 

25 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

?  Plus you cant put a price on the satisfaction of not paying down someone elses mortgage whilst they are living it up on their boat!   ☹️

 

Oooh that hurt!

 

A )  I don't have any mortgage.

B )  My property is rented out at a low rate so I pay less tax.

C ) I am not at present living it up on my boat, we overwinter in the Philippines.

D ) We worked damn hard and long to get where we are and sour grapes because we live so well is uncalled for.

Sam.

There are no sour grapes towards you my friend. I've no doubt you worked hard. Lots of people work hard and I intend to one day own my own house mortgage free.(or a nice widebeam with a 2000Ah battery bank). 

 

I spoke to an old chap who was in my taxi the other day, he told me he bought his house for the princely sum of £6.5k and has lived in it all his life. Its now worth upwards of £500k. His salary as a state school teacher at the time was £2k. 

 

How many times more the average state school teacher salary of £23k is £500k?

 

A lot of people with £80k boats say that its too expensive though for an average joe to start out.

 

I'm also aware of the increasing number of people who choose to live this way and the stigma that this can create for the more 'traditional' people who live aboard in terms of wanting to protect that way of life. 

 

My grandad had a narrowboat in his youth, I want to live on one. I'm going to buy one. 

 

This is majorly off topic and I don't know why everyone has got their backs up about the fact that it CAN be cheaper. 

 

Has anyone bought and successfully renovated a sub 10k steel narrowboat or regretted such a purchase?

 

I am trying to get peoples personal experiences rather than opinions on whether or not it would or wouldn't be a bad decision to do so. If no one has. Fair enough. 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by SailorJerold

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

there's none so deaf as those who don't want to listen.

 

you asked a question.  if you don't like the answers you are on the wrong forum.

 

perhaps you should try a forum dealing in fairy-tales that always end with living happily ever after.

Is this not unkind? The Sailor appears, to me, to be listening attentively. He's also been level-headed and provident enough to get himself a mooring before buying his boat. He has asked sensible questions. Should we not be encouraging him?

 

Oh, and as far as I can tell, the membership of CWDF includes quite a few people who are living "happily ever after" on their boats.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Athy

[Murflynn]

.....  maybe not 'unkind' ... more like a kindly advice not to approach the pitfall-strewn business of buying a cheap steel boat wearing rose-coloured glasses.  

 

as we are all aware, any steel boat suitable for a live-aboard and that has a good length of life left in it before it needs substantial repairs is worth a lot more than 10K . 

 

I'll wager that those who live on their boats 'happily ever after' have all made significant efforts, with significant costs to get to that happy state.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Murflynn