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Killed my water pump :-|


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15 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Additional question... How wd running it dry have caused water damage? Wd have thought heat damage more likely?!?

 

Yes, heat damage. Running the pump for four hours with no water on the seal for lubrication or cooling could have raied the temperature of the neoprene or whatever the seal is made from, to the point it melts and relaxes its grip on the pump shaft, allowing tiny amounts of water past to the motor. 

 

This is all speculation, but now you've experienced the huge inconvenience of no water, you can probably see the value of having a spare one to hand to immediately just slot in to replace it, instead of having to muck about trying to diagnose and then fix the one that has broken. 

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16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You however seem unable to accept other people's experience with water pumps is different from yours. 

 

I tend to find I am changing a pump every year on one or another of my boats, and the massive inconvenience of losing water and having to drop everything to go out and find and buy a new pump makes it well worth the trivial cost of keeping a spare pump in stock to me. But not you, I accept. The OP can make up her own mind. 

 

No, I do accept that other people's experience with water pumps is different from mine, but I don't necessarily accept that the OP's experience with her new pump will be the same as yours.

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29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You however seem unable to accept other people's experience with water pumps is different from yours. 

 

I tend to find I am changing a pump every year on one or another of my boats, and the massive inconvenience of losing water and having to drop everything to go out and find and buy a new pump makes it well worth the trivial cost of keeping a spare pump in stock to me. But not you, I accept. The OP can make up her own mind. 

They last me between 3 months and 4 years and anywhere in between. What I have found over the years is that if I dont have a spare they stop working ten miles from the nearest road, at night, in the rain on a weekend. I always keep a spare.

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17 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

They last me between 3 months and 4 years and anywhere in between. What I have found over the years is that if I dont have a spare they stop working ten miles from the nearest road, at night, in the rain on a weekend. I always keep a spare.

Agreed.

Blackrose, your pump is 10 years old. Maybe they made them better then? Ours went last year so I bought 2. At £70 a pop then good insurance. I dont want to be without water if we get stuck on the South oxford summit pound, or anywhere else where it takes a day to get water. £70 for a spare that maybe obselete in say 3 years (very doubtfull) is only 7p a day.

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9 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

£70 for a spare that maybe obselete in say 3 years (very doubtfull) is only 7p a day.

 

And even if it IS obsolete, so what?! You KNOW it will fit in place of the failed, identical pump. 

 

 

Another point is if you have to trudge five miles (or 15) to a chandlery you're gonna have to buy what they have, at the price they want. If you buy your spare in advance on ebay or amazon, you will prolly get it for £30 less than the retail chandlery. 

 

 

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Okey dokies... I called the Whale Line before I did this and they were pretty helpful too...

 

There is 12V to the chocolate box (sounds bad right?) but, that extra white wire, apparently acts as an override as well as to show a light when running. When that was connected where the red was the pump ran continuously and seemed to work (didn't hold it on for too long but def got at least moderate water pressure from taps at other end of boat which had completely run dry). 

 

Apparently this means there is a microswitch issue and I can just clean/replace that. Unfortunately I couldn't remember where, if at all, the helpline person had said such a switch wd be by the time I was with the pump and multimeter so, unless anyone happens to have same one, will have to wait until Monday and call back when actually on boat. 

 

I did find the filter that looked pretty yucky and when with fewer people on boat will try to disconnect that and clean. It seems to work with fittings as described by the helpline guy (like hoselock). 

 

For those debating expected lifespans all I can add from Whale is that they thought factors which wd decrease lifespan wd be

* hardness of water supply 

* living aboard

* the general sandiness we'd tried to mop out of the water tank (not sure how long it had been that way, may only have been since washing and transport in which case mopping before filling will have helped) 

 

They said pump may need 'attention' of some description annually in my situation (hard water, liveaboard) but not necessarily replacement of the whole thing. They were a bit reluctant to commit to an expected lifespan. 

 

Didn't recommend running vinegar through the water tank between fillings when I suggested it as potential way to de-fur slightly as they thought taste may linger. I thought better than drinking soft water or oust... But presumably after the first time of doing this looking at water pump issues will seem much less daunting anyway :-) 

 

So, partial success :-) 

 

Edited by TheMenagerieAfloat
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1 hour ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

that extra white wire, apparently acts as an override as well as to show a light when running. When that was connected where the red was the pump ran continuously and seemed to work

So the internal pressure switch has failed. A pretty common failure point on water pumps. Your best bet will be to fit an external Square D pressure switch as Tony B suggests above. Quick, simple, and lasts forever. 

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16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Your best bet will be to fit an external Square D pressure switch as Tony B suggests above. Quick, simple, and lasts forever. 

 

Not sure I'd describe it as quick, or simple given plumbing and wiring alternations are both needed, or that Square D switches aren't exactly available over the counter in chandleries or Screwfix. 

 

Quickest route to a working pump is still a whole new pump in my opinion. Second quickest and easiest is mail order purchase the microswitch from Whale and fit that. Obtaining and fitting a Square D pressure switch is best done as a future-proofing exercise at leisure later, once the pump is fixed and working. 

 

Just my opinion. On the other hand the OP has two boats so maybe fixing it is not urgent. 

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One of the OP's boats is cruising until sold so has no water either (I was attempting to 'winterise') and given the time of year is a fun but time time consuming distraction.

 

So, definitely quick/easy is good for now. Along with a bit of learning pump maintenance / fitting for future.

 

My future-proofing activities are probably at a more basic level at present... I made a start on identifying my 30 12V switches... H2O pump down, 29 to go! 

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MTB and others are right about spares not boat related I have a 30 year old defender 90 called Gertrude  and carry all manner of spares for her  from fuel filters air filters oil filters fuses  hoses spade connectors and multimeter etc

its always good to have a nice collection of spares it has got me out of bother many a time and once used I always make a point of purchasing the used spare and replacing it ,

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On 02/01/2020 at 20:06, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You however seem unable to accept other people's experience with water pumps is different from yours. 

 

I tend to find I am changing a pump every year on one or another of my boats, and the massive inconvenience of losing water and having to drop everything to go out and find and buy a new pump makes it well worth the trivial cost of keeping a spare pump in stock to me. But not you, I accept. The OP can make up her own mind. 

Perhaps he dose not shower as much as you.

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4 hours ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Okey dokies... I called the Whale Line before I did this and they were pretty helpful too...

So a new pressure switch will get the pump running again - but presumably it will still be leaking until that separate problem is fixed. 

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11 minutes ago, peter n said:

So a new pressure switch will get the pump running again - but presumably it will still be leaking until that separate problem is fixed. 

I'm not against buying a whole new one, just going through it step by step...

 

Unsure, tbh, which bits are joints which maybe cd do with attention vs which bits shd never have had water anywhere near them in the first place and aren't fixable.

 

Do you mean the part where the sort of black horizontal cylinder shaped bit meets the rest of the pump? 

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3 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'm not against buying a whole new one, just going through it step by step...

 

Unsure, tbh, which bits are joints which maybe cd do with attention vs which bits shd never have had water anywhere near them in the first place and aren't fixable.

 

Do you mean the part where the sort of black horizontal cylinder shaped bit meets the rest of the pump? 

 

I think your best course of action is to buy a whole new pump immediately, fit that and get the water back on, then you'll have a whole defunct pump you can dismantle and learn about all the parts in it, and work out how it works. Not longer having to worry about breaking something as you take it to bits and learn about it makes the whole thing far less stressful and more enjoyable.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

New pump now fitted ? Noticeably quieter than old one, less leaky and doesn't run at random times.

Turns out my local and super-helpful 7-day/week chandlers can order them in pretty quick and as cheap as anywhere so happy not to carry spares when returning to home mooring do-able within a couple of days but haven't yet dispensed with old one for educational/cannibalisation purposes. Progress!

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9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

What make and model did you buy. Quieter sounds good ? 

Exactly the same one as before (Whale Universal UF1214 ). This one is fitted onto some padding (like old vinyl floor type stuff) to try to reduce the vibration somewhat but I think the motor is quieter too - probably something to listen out for as a warning of the next time it is about to go!

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