Norman 22 Re-Fit

[aidaan92]

Morning guys, I’m new to boating, been interested for a while but never made the leap into ownership. I have worked on a relative’s boat for a while helping fix various “bodge” jobs. Due to various circumstances I have been gifted the boat, the plan is a complete rip-out outside and in then a complete re-fit to make the boat safe and sound, seen as though my son will undoubtedly be sailing on it. After looking over this forum for a while and learning a lot I decided to start a build thread as I begin the arduous task of re-fitting the boat.

The boat in question is a Norman 22 Mk2 I think, this is taken from the Norman Appreciation Society website, it has a mercury outboard (unsure on hp) which I believe is 2-stroke but again not 100%. The to-do list is huge but hoping (optimistically) that I can finish the project within a year. The plan is as follows:

 

-          Dry-dock the boat

-          Full rip-out of interior and exterior items including floor

-          Structural inspection of hull and carry out any repairs

-          Full clean and scrub down of inside of hull

-          New paneling and flooring throughout

-          Full re-wire with new equipment

-          Install new cabin interior

-          Install toilet cupboard

-          Install new helm equipment and seating

-          Install a new aft seat

-          Full clean of exterior and repair where necessary

-          Full re-paint

-          Install new handrails, solar panels, lighting, and horn

-          New rigging

-          New canvas

-          Repair Houdini hatch

-          Full service of engine or new engine depending on size and condition

 

So far that’s the list, I know there is more jobs which fall into the above list, I have done a full project task list with each job on including inspection points for BSS certificate. I am an engineer by trade and been a mechanic in the past, I have good sparky and chippy experience so the whole project will be undertaken by myself. Again, I am new to boating so will be seeking the experience and knowledge of the members on this forum to help me with areas I don’t understand and little tips and tricks to get things done easier and better. Plus, the benefit of you guys having road tested most of the equipment I’m looking at so will be able to give advice on the best ones to go for.

I will be posting updates on this post hopefully every week but might miss a couple here and there depending on progress. Will be starting an online album with the photos so people can see the progress on there if need be. To start, below are a few photos of the boat as is. Just a quick thanks for taking the time to read this essay and hope you enjoy the journey. Again, any advice is taken on board and greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Mad Harold]

From the photos,the exterior doesn't look too bad.Drydocking fees are very high and you might be better off having it transported to your garden (if feasable) or a farmers field where you can work on it at your leisure.

A two stroke engine is not really suitable on canals,because to run cleanly they need to be run at fairly high power settings,and they will spend a fair bit of time idling which is not good for them.They have come a long way from the days of the British Seagull,but a four stroke is more suitable.

Have a look on here at the posts of captain faffer or admiral faffer or W+T

I think he must use a different tag depending on his mood.He has refurbished a grp cruiser before and is now on with stretching a Norman 32.

[aidaan92]

Unfortunately I haven't got the space to store it on the drive and local farmers have asked for just as much to put it there, the boat yard I'm using is charging £50 a month which sounds reasonable but I'm dont know what going rate is

 

In regards to engine if it is a two stroke I will probably be looking at upgrading to a 4 stroke, not set kn a hp yet as unsure exactly what I'll need. The reason I'm guessing two stroke is by researching old mercury motors and the history of the boat leans towards 2 stroke

 

I have seen W+T thread on the norman 32 being stretched (rather him than me!) And from that saw the other thread on the smaller cruiser so when I have a bit of time it's on my reading list, I'll check out the others aswell see what they show up

 

Cheers for the info

[Mike Hurley]

Looking at the 2nd pic is that 30 on the engine cover?

[WotEver]

Good luck with your project

 

One suggestion - before buying anything (wood, cable, switches, insulation, paint, whatever) ask for this forum’s opinion on your first choice. You’ll probably get differing responses but that should still help you narrow down your choice and may flag up a potential disaster-in-the-making. 

[aidaan92]

2 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

Looking at the 2nd pic is that 30 on the engine cover?

Not sure bud, I'm going down today/tomorrow to have a good look round so will have a nosy at the engine and see what it is.

 

23 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Good luck with your project

 

One suggestion - before buying anything (wood, cable, switches, insulation, paint, whatever) ask for this forum’s opinion on your first choice. You’ll probably get differing responses but that should still help you narrow down your choice and may flag up a potential disaster-in-the-making. 

 

I will definitely be asking for people opinions thats for sure. First job is to get it ripped out then deep cleaned. After that begin with the woodwork and the questions will soon follow

 

[W+T]

Oh good another cruiser project, dont get many to read about

 

Sounds like your all set to go and crack on, the standing fee`s are no to bad at £55 pm. 

 

Good luck with it and looking forward to the updates. 

 

Wayne/Admiral faffer  ( the loon with the Norm 32 on Viagra ) :):)

 

 

[Mad Harold]

£50 per month is ok.My mooring (Norman 20 ) is more than that.

Look forward to hearing about the progress of your project.

[W+T]

16 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

£50 per month is ok.My mooring (Norman 20 ) is more than that.

Look forward to hearing about the progress of your project.

So many Normans have popped up to me since i got mine, got a lot asking about me making Hardtops and top screens aswell  

[aidaan92]

1 hour ago, W+T said:

Oh good another cruiser project, dont get many to read about

 

Sounds like your all set to go and crack on, the standing fee`s are no to bad at £55 pm. 

 

Good luck with it and looking forward to the updates. 

 

Wayne/Admiral faffer  ( the loon with the Norm 32 on Viagra ) :):)

 

 

 

Cheers admiral, I will be looking over your build thread for tips and guidance that's for sure, from what I've read so far your rather skilled with the GRP which you will need to be with the task of stretching your 32, will be keeping an eye on that progress too 

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

£50 per month is ok.My mooring (Norman 20 ) is more than that.

Look forward to hearing about the progress of your project.

Ahh that's good then, the only way forward really so I can get it level to build on, will be posting regular updates hopefully 

[W+T]

Hey i just like a challenge, and a 44 foot cruiser well....:)

[WotEver]

41 minutes ago, aidaan92 said:

Ahh that's good then, the only way forward really so I can get it level to build on, will be posting regular updates hopefully 

Before it’s lifted, paint a line down the side to show the water level. Then when you put it on the hard you can get that line level and know that it’s more or less how it will sit when afloat. You could even use a spirit level, but don’t expect the boat to sit exactly where it was as your weight distribution will almost certainly change with a refit. 

[aidaan92]

1 hour ago, W+T said:

Hey i just like a challenge, and a 44 foot cruiser well....:)

Take my hat off to you, look forward to see the progress

 

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Before it’s lifted, paint a line down the side to show the water level. Then when you put it on the hard you can get that line level and know that it’s more or less how it will sit when afloat. You could even use a spirit level, but don’t expect the boat to sit exactly where it was as your weight distribution will almost certainly change with a refit. 

Was going to put a line on to know how far up to go with antifouling but never thought of using it as a datum line, that's a cracking idea, I understand what you mean with fitting it out level then putting it on water and cups start sliding off table , cheers for the heads up

[aidaan92]

A quick update on the progress, I have ripped out most of the interior, leaving the cooker in so we can still have a brew until its dry docked. Once I got most of the interior ripped out it allowed me to check the condition of the hull and bilge, fortunately these both seem in good order, there is no obvious damage and the bilge is dry which is always a bonus. There is a slight leak coming in from the roof which I suspect is the houdini hatch not being sealed correctly. Once shes out of the water I can have a proper clean and check of everything, I think I will end up re-sealing all the windows and hatch to be sure. I am still unsure on whether I want to go with the houdini or have a more simple hatch without the bars, only time will tell I suppose. Sorry I forgot to take pictures of the ripout, will get some this week and post them on next update.

 

I had a good look round the outboard and its definitely a 2 stroke, guessing around 6hp, the ID plate is knackered so cant see any info. So I am certain this will be removed and a fresh outboard stuck on, I am thinking of a outboard in the region of 15hp, dual thrust prop, and rudder attachment as W+T did on his 20ft. Either this or might look into converting to a diesel inboard, only thing is doing this I will lose alot of underfloor space which is putting me off slightly.

 

Whats everyone's thoughts on the propulsion? has anyone done a conversion before? will 15hp be around what I need? Whats HP is everyone else running?

 

Cheers chaps

[W+T]

Yes i woild do as you say. Rid of the engine you have and get a 10hp plus 4 stoke elecy start.  Rudder are good but not needed if you have the k ack of controlling it, short burst as and when to give direction/control. 

I wouldnt do the conversion. No point in that size boat and costly. 

 

One thing though i would do is check futther more on the leaks. If the windows are not leaking dont fix untill broke. If the gunnel is wet just  below the windows then yes the window may well beeaking or the cleats/fender eyes. Houdinis are a pain if the seals go but if its just the fitting thats an easy fix. 

 

[aidaan92]

1 hour ago, W+T said:

Yes i woild do as you say. Rid of the engine you have and get a 10hp plus 4 stoke elecy start.  Rudder are good but not needed if you have the k ack of controlling it, short burst as and when to give direction/control. 

I wouldnt do the conversion. No point in that size boat and costly. 

 

One thing though i would do is check futther more on the leaks. If the windows are not leaking dont fix untill broke. If the gunnel is wet just  below the windows then yes the window may well beeaking or the cleats/fender eyes. Houdinis are a pain if the seals go but if its just the fitting thats an easy fix. 

 

 

Will definitely be going for electric start, only time I want to be near the engine is for maintenance. I'm not an experienced driver so will be taking all the extra little help I can get. Might steer clear of the conversion then, for the next boat though I think I will going inboard though.

 

Plan is to completely gut the interior until there is just a bare shell, then thorough clean and visual inspection. If nothing obvious shows up then I will pressure test the seals individually to see where it is coming from, I'm hoping its just the poorly fitted houdini, it was fitted badly and sealed with what looks about a pallet load of silicone.  

[W+T]

1 hour ago, aidaan92 said:

 

Will definitely be going for electric start, only time I want to be near the engine is for maintenance. I'm not an experienced driver so will be taking all the extra little help I can get. Might steer clear of the conversion then, for the next boat though I think I will going inboard though.

 

Plan is to completely gut the interior until there is just a bare shell, then thorough clean and visual inspection. If nothing obvious shows up then I will pressure test the seals individually to see where it is coming from, I'm hoping its just the poorly fitted houdini, it was fitted badly and sealed with what looks about a pallet load of silicone.  

 

To find leaks are really a process of elimination. Not easy on boat at all. Your doing the nest way and to rip it out and go from scratch. It will show a lot easier once ripped out. Once you remove a window its not 100% it will not leak unless done properly, not saying you wont do. I had a chap ask me to do some work on his boat as he had a few leaks all around his boat and expected it to be done in a day. He fixed them in the past will a bit of silicone. And to say he didnt take me up when i have him the cost for me to do it properly, soooo it looks like it will be bodged again. Do it right first time with leaks. 

[aidaan92]

2 hours ago, W+T said:

 

To find leaks are really a process of elimination. Not easy on boat at all. Your doing the nest way and to rip it out and go from scratch. It will show a lot easier once ripped out. Once you remove a window its not 100% it will not leak unless done properly, not saying you wont do. I had a chap ask me to do some work on his boat as he had a few leaks all around his boat and expected it to be done in a day. He fixed them in the past will a bit of silicone. And to say he didnt take me up when i have him the cost for me to do it properly, soooo it looks like it will be bodged again. Do it right first time with leaks. 

Thats why I'm doing it, if my son is going on the boat I want to make sure its 100% from the ground up, if any of the windows do leak I will get them repaired by a friend who is a autoglazer with expereince with boats. This project will always be about doing things right the first time, I want to be able to get on the boat when its finished and not have to worry about things to do. It's going to be a fun process and I will definitely be turning to you for advice with the GRP work thats for sure

[W+T]

38 minutes ago, aidaan92 said:

Thats why I'm doing it, if my son is going on the boat I want to make sure its 100% from the ground up, if any of the windows do leak I will get them repaired by a friend who is a autoglazer with expereince with boats. This project will always be about doing things right the first time, I want to be able to get on the boat when its finished and not have to worry about things to do. It's going to be a fun process and I will definitely be turning to you for advice with the GRP work thats for sure

At last to hear from a boat owner not wanting to bodge there boat and take short cuts.  I would always rather by a boat as a shell and then  i know what i have not someone elses  cock up. 

 

And come on pics, even if its a rip out

[aidaan92]

11 hours ago, W+T said:

At last to hear from a boat owner not wanting to bodge there boat and take short cuts.  I would always rather by a boat as a shell and then  i know what i have not someone elses  cock up. 

 

And come on pics, even if its a rip out

I'm the same, also that way you can truly the condition of the hull and then make the boat your own, I'm looking at adding things, moving things, and making it unique.

 

The previous owner had his "friends" help him on the boat and do the wiring and plumbing etc, I already knew there was corners cut but until I started taking panels off the walls I never knew the extent and my god is it dangerous, loose live wires hanging about, wires wound together and taped with duck tape, wires just wrapped round terminals on switches and batteries, the 230v wiring consisting of various size wires most of them bare, the list goes on. When I next saw him I shook his hand and told him to buy a lottery ticket, because I don't know how something major didnt go wrong.

 

I know I forgot to take any, when I'm next down I will make sure I take some, I'll take some of the existing wiring aswell to show how not to do it.