Newbie

[PD1964]

9 hours ago, Ange said:

I shall never forget one particular post from a member that asked who's going to look after the rights of white heterosexual men because we're being oppressed now.

After centuries of owning their women I suppose equality feels like oppression.

  I often laugh at some older men I see on the canal a lot who have not been boating long who shout at their other half while she struggles to get the lock gates open.  They have that traditional mentality that they steer and the woman has to do the locks, often they aren't strong enough to do them which leads to an argument as the man will not help and just stands there on the boat in the lock while she waits for a helpful passer by.

Edited January 2, 2020 by PD1964

[LadyG]

2 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  I often laugh at some older men I see on the canal a lot who have not been boating long who shout at their other half while she struggles to get the lock gates open, they have that traditional mentality that they steer and the woman has to do the locks, often they aren't strong enough to do them which leads to an argument as the man will not help and just stands there on the boat in the lock while she waits for a helpful passer by.

Fortunately that generation are dying out, slowly.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, PD1964 said:

  I often laugh at some older men I see on the canal a lot who have not been boating long who shout at their other half while she struggles to get the lock gates open, they have that traditional mentality that they steer and the woman has to do the locks, often they aren't strong enough to do them which leads to an argument as the man will not help and just stands there on the boat in the lock while she waits for a helpful passer by.

 

Yes that can happen, but as often a not if you engage in conversation with the struggling woman (or offer to help!) she will usually tell you she doesn't want to steer the boat and prefers to work the locks, so you are being somewhat unfair on some of the blokes.

 

This has been the usual answer my experience anyway, having noticed the same and asked quite a few over the years why she doesn't steer the boat and make her bloke do the locks. 

 

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes that can happen, but as often a not if you engage in conversation with the struggling woman (or offer to help!) she will usually tell you she doesn't want to steer the boat and prefers to work the locks, so you are being somewhat unfair on some of the blokes.

 

This has been the usual answer my experience anyway, having noticed the same and asked quite a few over the years why she doesn't steer the boat and make her bloke do the locks. 

 

  True, often the problem has been from the start of their boating, the man has stereotypically put them in that role and not given the woman the chance to learn how to handle the boat so she lacks confidence doing locks, It's when the woman can't physically do the lock and he would rather wait in the lock for 10 minutes instead of getting off and helping or until another boat/passer by helps that I find laughable.

 

  

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes that can happen, but as often a not if you engage in conversation with the struggling woman (or offer to help!) she will usually tell you she doesn't want to steer the boat and prefers to work the locks, so you are being somewhat unfair on some of the blokes.

 

This has been the usual answer my experience anyway, having noticed the same and asked quite a few over the years why she doesn't steer the boat and make her bloke do the locks. 

 

Spot on Mike. My missus still hates driving the boat, always has done and practicaly never does. She loves doing the locks and still gets a kick out of being able to do them all on her own, this enables a faster smoother passage as I hover outside the lock. I have very recently had to tie up and help as in reality at 66 and having lost weight she cannot do what she did when we moved on board she was 36 a noticeable difference even though she is still physicaly fit. She can still do the gates on Somerton deep for instance on her own, she likes her porridge.

[Nightwatch]

My better half can steer and control the boat with expertise. There is a slight lack of confidence so, if there’s another human within half a Mile she won’t take the controls. It’s her preference to work the lock not mine. Yes, there are locks that are hard work, for anyone, which Margaret struggles with. I’m not very agile anymore but I do offer to climb out and help.

 

so, please don’t  tar all men with the same brush. It’s very sexist.

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Spot on Mike. My missus still hates driving the boat, always has done and practicaly never does. She loves doing the locks and still gets a kick out of being able to do them all on her own, this enables a faster smoother passage as I hover outside the lock. I have very recently had to tie up and help as in reality at 66 and having lost weight she cannot do what she did when we moved on board she was 36 a noticeable difference even though she is still physicaly fit. She can still do the gates on Somerton deep for instance on her own, she likes her porridge.

This is so dittoable. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Nightwatch

[MtB]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

She can still do the gates on Somerton deep for instance on her own, she likes her porridge.

 

Bloody hell, I can hardly do Somerton deep meself, sometime have to wait for a sturdy woman to come along and help... 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes that can happen, but as often a not if you engage in conversation with the struggling woman (or offer to help!) she will usually tell you she doesn't want to steer the boat and prefers to work the locks, so you are being somewhat unfair on some of the blokes.

 

This has been the usual answer my experience anyway, having noticed the same and asked quite a few over the years why she doesn't steer the boat and make her bloke do the locks. 

 

However, what are the chances that she did steer when the boat was first bought, and got so much mansplaining and belittling from her husband that she gave up?

 

Or are we saying that women are intrinsically bad at steering (and playing darts until recently)?  There's got to be an explanation for why a man in a couple who refuses to steer is incredibly rare, but sadly all too common the other way round?  My gut tells me that 90% of the time it's the former reason - backed up by the times I've seen husbands berating their wives, and even women on other boats, who have had the temerity to try and steer.

Edited January 2, 2020 by doratheexplorer

[MtB]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

However, what are the chances that she did steer when the boat was first bought, and got so much mansplaining and belittling from her husband that she gave up?

 

Yes that IS a possibility. Fear of their steering being judged by anyone watching is another possibility. Certainly the case with my wife sometimes. I used to have to deliberately wonder off when she brings a bote into a lock as she is quite likely to tell me off for watching. If I watch, that is. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes that can happen, but as often a not if you engage in conversation with the struggling woman (or offer to help!) she will usually tell you she doesn't want to steer the boat and prefers to work the locks, so you are being somewhat unfair on some of the blokes.

 

This has been the usual answer my experience anyway, having noticed the same and asked quite a few over the years why she doesn't steer the boat and make her bloke do the locks. 

 

As does my misses, she hurt her back so I got to do all the Atherstone locks coming up, but I bet I don't get a look in going down. However I don't stand on the back and shout, I get off and do my bit.

Edited January 2, 2020 by ditchcrawler

[haggis]

To put this from my (female) perspective. When I started canal boating, my husband had been doing it for a few years and was therefore adept at steering and in all honesty, I probably just let him do it (this was when female car drivers were still looked on as less accomplished than males). Over the years, I took the tiller more often but I have to admit that I am not as accomplished as Iain ( he has his Boatmasters licence and drives a wide beam trip boat and gets much more opportunity than me to improve his skills). I like working locks but I reckon the work is now shared about 50/50 as Iain always gets off and does a lot of the work. What I do find odd is when the female is struggling to work the lock and the male is  standing on the back of the boat clutching the tiller and making absolutely no attempt to get off and help. OK in some instances, his health might prevent him getting of and helping. 

I smile when I remember a memorable trip up the Manchester Ship Canal when we had to breast up and the pair of boats in front of us started off being good friends. However, one of the males took great exception when the female on the other boat had the audacity to move the tiller or do anything to control her boat and his view was obviously that steering a boat was "mens work" and a woman should not presume to act above her station. I don't think the friendship continued beyond that trip! 

 

Haggis

[doratheexplorer]

4 minutes ago, haggis said:

To put this from my (female) perspective. When I started canal boating, my husband had been doing it for a few years and was therefore adept at steering and in all honesty, I probably just let him do it (this was when female car drivers were still looked on as less accomplished than males). Over the years, I took the tiller more often but I have to admit that I am not as accomplished as Iain ( he has his Boatmasters licence and drives a wide beam trip boat and gets much more opportunity than me to improve his skills). I like working locks but I reckon the work is now shared about 50/50 as Iain always gets off and does a lot of the work. What I do find odd is when the female is struggling to work the lock and the male is  standing on the back of the boat clutching the tiller and making absolutely no attempt to get off and help. OK in some instances, his health might prevent him getting of and helping. His health might improve if he was a bit more active.

I smile when I remember a memorable trip up the Manchester Ship Canal when we had to breast up and the pair of boats in front of us started off being good friends. However, one of the males took great exception when the female on the other boat had the audacity to move the tiller or do anything to control her boat and his view was obviously that steering a boat was "mens work" and a woman should not presume to act above her station. I don't think the friendship continued beyond that trip! 

 

Haggis

 

[Ray T]

Somehow the "Trainees" managed to do both functions during WWII.  

 

They even managed to cloth the boats up as well!!!

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Ray T

[restlessnomad]

8 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Why is it unfair?  In those cases, money is awarded because the woman has foregone her own earning potential as a result of marriage and children.  All money earned by a couple in a marriage is jointly owned by the couple.  If you don't like the sound of that, don't get married.

Go for it then!

No, the amount awarded has no relation with the opportunity cost of being a mother, judging from high profile cases where millionaires married somebody who does not work.

Of course somebody who gave up career for child should be compensated, also for the amount of work he/she has put for brining up the child. It cant be 'half' of the pooled income. The defence given is 'she/he should maintain the quality of life', which is not really good enough.

We are discussing the law that stipulates compensation to one party on divorce as a concept and fairness of it, and am pretty sure its possible to do so as a concept while still abiding by it.

Am not Rosa Parks but you are basically saying if you don't want to sit at the back, don't ride the bus.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by restlessnomad

[restlessnomad]

8 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

There are substantial advantages in being homosexual male. The possibility of twin high level incomes with no pregnancy breaks opens many doors. There is less pressure to be in"a family" with all the overheads involved, more freedom of choice.

there is higher risk of STD and society not accepting you fully, so I dont think the picture is that rosy.

[cuthound]

8 hours ago, PD1964 said:

  I often laugh at some older men I see on the canal a lot who have not been boating long who shout at their other half while she struggles to get the lock gates open.  They have that traditional mentality that they steer and the woman has to do the locks, often they aren't strong enough to do them which leads to an argument as the man will not help and just stands there on the boat in the lock while she waits for a helpful passer by.

 

In my case you are wrong as to why I steer the boat in locks and my wife operates them.

 

When I first introduced my wife to the delights of canalling, many years ago, she steered the boat and I did the locks.

 

All went well for a couple of years, until she entered an uphill lock and the "helpful" people waiting to come down "assisted" by opening fully both top paddles whilst I was closing the bottom gate. The boat was sucked forward until it hit the top gates hard. This frightened her so much, that she has flatly refused to steer the boat into locks since.

 

This is a shame as ot only has it rocked her confidence, but I find operating locks one of the best bits of canalling and now only get to do it when single handing.

[PD1964]

26 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

In my case you are wrong as to why I steer the boat in locks and my wife operates them.

 

When I first introduced my wife to the delights of canalling, many years ago, she steered the boat and I did the locks.

 

All went well for a couple of years, until she entered an uphill lock and the "helpful" people waiting to come down "assisted" by opening fully both top paddles whilst I was closing the bottom gate. The boat was sucked forward until it hit the top gates hard. This frightened her so much, that she has flatly refused to steer the boat into locks since.

 

This is a shame as ot only has it rocked her confidence, but I find operating locks one of the best bits of canalling and now only get to do it when single handing.

So if your wife was involved in a minor traffic accident where no one was hurt and it wasn't her fault she would stop driving? Maybe you need to help her get her confidence back.

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

So if your wife was involved in a minor traffic accident where no one was hurt and it wasn't her fault she would stop driving? Maybe you need to help her get her confidence back.

 

Been trying to boost her boating confidence for 30 years now without success. 

[restlessnomad]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Been trying to boost her boating confidence for 30 years now without success. 

have you tried to get her drunk first before asking to drive the boat?

[PD1964]

51 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

 

 

51 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

have you tried to get her drunk first before asking to drive the boat?

What¿ Are you being serious or just acting the fool with that remark?

Edited January 2, 2020 by PD1964

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 

What¿ Are you being serious or just acting the fool with that remark?

 

Chill, and try to recognise a joke when you see one!!

 

 

 

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Chill, and try to recognise a joke when you see one!!

 

 

 

Not funny though is it?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Not funny though is it?

It probably isn't to someone who knows a (presumably older than me) woman with the confidence issues that can come from the upbringing someone like that may have had. 

 

But in the abstract, yeah, it kinda is.

 

FWIW I observe a lot of 'learned helplessness' in both partners in many long term couples. I've never consistently been either 'the man' or 'the woman' in a particular LTR so need to be able to pick up most skills. But I do get the attraction of not doing.

 

And we haven't discussed the men who feel they 'ought' to steer/put an animal out of its misery/fix the plumbing/etc but find whole experience intimidating and emasculating. 

 

Had the funniest conversation with an ex the other day... They were *shocked* to find I'd been the one to propose to my ex spouse, despite them being very egalitarian in many respects. 

 

Realised that I'd been 'the girl' with that one and would never have proposed. Whereas it felt perfect natural when I was 'the man'. 

[PD1964]

10 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

It probably isn't to someone who knows a (presumably older than me) woman with the confidence issues that can come from the upbringing someone like that may have had. 

 

But in the abstract, yeah, it kinda is.

 

FWIW I observe a lot of 'learned helplessness' in both partners in many long term couples. I've never consistently been either 'the man' or 'the woman' in a particular LTR so need to be able to pick up most skills. But I do get the attraction of not doing.

 

And we haven't discussed the men who feel they 'ought' to steer/put an animal out of its misery/fix the plumbing/etc but find whole experience intimidating and emasculating. 

 

Had the funniest conversation with an ex the other day... They were *shocked* to find I'd been the one to propose to my ex spouse, despite them being very egalitarian in many respects. 

 

Realised that I'd been 'the girl' with that one and would never have proposed. Whereas it felt perfect natural when I was 'the man'. 

What are you going on about? Sorry but total garbage.

Edited January 2, 2020 by PD1964

[Guest]

In some relationships I'm the instigator/bread winner/typically the driver/etc. In others I've been the one who has doors held open for them/blushes when given jewellery/etc. 

 

Talking abt the dynamic. Not the genitals.