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Battery issues


frahkn

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18 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

:) :) :) 

This is drifting a bit - no worries on that score but I thought I should let the early responders (thanks again) know that I am still alive.

 

The batteries were all about 11C this morning and I am just putting a battery in my clamp meter before investigating further.

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An update.

 

The batteries have been charging for about three hours now.

 

There is no smell of gas.

 

The interconnects show the same current on each although there is one which I cannot get to with the clamp meter.

 

Three are still at about 11C, one at about 14C and the final one at 22C. This is using the infra-red thermometer, by hand there is little temperature difference noticeable.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, frahkn said:

An update.

 

The batteries have been charging for about three hours now.

 

There is no smell of gas.

 

The interconnects show the same current on each although there is one which I cannot get to with the clamp meter.

 

Three are still at about 11C, one at about 14C and the final one at 22C. This is using the infra-red thermometer, by hand there is little temperature difference noticeable.

 

 

 

 

Is the one at 14*C next to (touching) the one at 22*C ?

 

Monitor the one at 22*C if it gets any hotter take it out of the bank.

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17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

£55, order tonight, free delivery Tuesday. 24th

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110AH-LEISURE-BATTERY-HEAVY-DUTY-LOW-HEIGHT-100-AH-AMP-110-AMP-DUAL-PURP/301581095653?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60698%26meid%3D420c9a7c384b464194b0a0cff965c054%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dsb%26sd%3D202690470212%26itm%3D301581095653%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deep-Cycle-Leisure-Battery-12V-100AH-SB-S100-Caravan-Motorhome-Marine-Boat/202690470212?epid=9034190477&hash=item2f314b2144:g:0N8AAOSwjQ5c6vVc

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deep-Cycle-Leisure-Battery-12V-110AH-SB-LM110-Caravan-Motorhome-Marine-Boat/191393651830?hash=item2c8ff35c76:g:nPYAAOSwopRYiiK9

 

They even offer some useful guidelines :

 

Leisure Battery Care & Maintenance:

 

     SuperBatt leisure batteries are manufactured to the very highest of standards, but to get the very best performance, and longevity out of your batteries it is well worth following a simple care and maintenance program:

  •          Always recharge your battery as soon as you can after use after discharge and keep it as fully charged as possible during long periods of in-activity.
  •          Please must use Continual Automatic chargers with these batteries such as NUMAX 12V 10A DC Fully Automatic Intelligent Connect & Forget Leisure Battery charger can be left attached to the battery for long periods and will look after your battery at correct state of charge until you need it next.
  •          Avoid completely discharging your battery (Below 10.5V) as this will reduce its cyclic lifespan.
  •          When the battery is out of the caravan/motor-homes etc., always store it in a cool, dry and well ventilated place.
  •          From time to time make sure the terminals are free from dust and dirt, and all connections are sound.
  •          Please must not use Trickle charge with these batteries.
  •          An equalizing charge for a 12volt battery required that it be charged with a voltage of at least 14.4 volts for a period of at least one hour once a month, or every 10 discharge cycles. An equalizing charge prevents battery stratification and reduces sulfation, the leading cause of battery failure. Equalizing should be performed when a battery is first purchased (called a freshening charge). Reduced performance can also be an indicator that an equalizing charge is needed.
  •          All batteries, regardless of their chemistry, will self-discharge. The rate of self-discharge for lead acid batteries depends on the storage or operating temperature. At a temperature of 80 degrees F. A lead acid battery will self-discharge at a rate of approximately 4% a week. A battery with a 125-amp hour rating would self-discharge at a rate of approximately five amps per week. Keeping this in mind if a 125 AH battery is stored for four months (16 weeks) winter without being charged, it will lose 80 amps of its 125-amp capacity. It will also have severe sulfation, which causes additional loss of capacity. Keep your batteries charged while not in use.

The spec states that the 110ah capacity is at C100, not C20 so more likely they are 85ah? ?

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13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is the one at 14*C next to (touching) the one at 22*C ?

 

Monitor the one at 22*C if it gets any hotter take it out of the bank.

None of them are actually touching, there is about 1cm between each battery.

 

The 14C and the 22C are not adjacent.

 

I will certainly be monitoring them.

 

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, frahkn said:

None of them are actually touching, there is about 1cm between each battery.

 

The 14C and the 22C are not adjacent.

 

I will certainly be monitoring them.

 

Thanks.

Stop charging and measure the current in the 22C battery. If it's still in the same direction (ie charging) then the other batteries are charging it and and that's the smoking gun. If I was you I'd just disconnect the 22C battery for 24 hours. and then measure the terminal voltage. If it's still around 12v then it's OK, if it reduces to around 10v then it's dead.

 

MP.

 

  • Greenie 2
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There is a slight flaw in the plan to order them from ebay, it could be that the OP's boat does not have a postcode.

 

So before ordering he needs to cruise to a pub or find a canalside address that will accept the delivery for him.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, MoominPapa said:

Stop charging and measure the current in the 22C battery. If it's still in the same direction (ie charging) then the other batteries are charging it and and that's the smoking gun. If I was you I'd just disconnect the 22C battery for 24 hours. and then measure the terminal voltage. If it's still around 12v then it's OK, if it reduces to around 10v then it's dead.

 

MP.

 

Thanks Moomin, I'll try that tomorrow.

4 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

In the time procrastinating, you could have ordered them and had them for fitting by Tuesday. Once batteries get 'tired', they never get better, and replacing one in a bank is never a good idea.

Batteries are consumables at the prices we are talking about.

I've phoned my two closest boatyards, both are closed till 6th January.

 

As Mike spotted, and you could have, I'm not a live aboard and don't have a postcode for deliveries.

 

I'm cool about replacing them, see my original post.

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12 hours ago, frahkn said:

I've phoned my two closest boatyards, both are closed till 6th January.

 

As Mike spotted, and you could have, I'm not a live aboard and don't have a postcode for deliveries.

 

I'm cool about replacing them, see my original post.

Pub car parks are good for this as long as you can get a decently tight ETA from the supplier.  And if you can’t, just get decently tight ?

  • Happy 1
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3 hours ago, MoominPapa said:

A lot better now they're not mainly cooking the sick one.

 

MP.

 

The 14 C battery got hotter (18 C) at first but seems to have calmed down now.

 

Also the Sterling meter still says that it is charging into "full" batteries.

 

If necessary I can get to my home marina in two days and be on shore power. But would this help - surely even on shore power, the 12 volt demand is met by the charger via the batteries?

 

Anyway, for now all is well and from the 6th I can arrange a new set of batteries.

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42 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I thought it would need both skill and effort ... :giggles:

 

Surely you recognise I only do it the get a rise out of Alan, and he usually takes the bait with vigour and runs with it beautifully!

 

As evidenced by this thread.... :giggles: 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Haha 1
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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Surely you recognise I only do it the get a rise out of Alan, and he usually takes the bait with vigour and runs with it beautifully!

 

As evidenced by this thread.... :giggles:

You even have a choice of Alans!

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10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Surely you recognise I only do it the get a rise out of Alan, and he usually takes the bait with vigour and runs with it beautifully!

 

As evidenced by this thread.... :giggles: 

 

 

 

 

 

Bait........

..

..

 

..

 

..

 

Fish?

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12 hours ago, frahkn said:

The 14 C battery got hotter (18 C) at first but seems to have calmed down now.

 

Also the Sterling meter still says that it is charging into "full" batteries.

 

If necessary I can get to my home marina in two days and be on shore power. But would this help - surely even on shore power, the 12 volt demand is met by the charger via the batteries?

 

Anyway, for now all is well and from the 6th I can arrange a new set of batteries.

 

Sadly when batteries are of the same age, when one fails the others soon follow.

 

Providing you keep a  eye on the remaining batteries, you should be OK to use them  until you can replace them early next year.

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14 hours ago, frahkn said:

Also the Sterling meter still says that it is charging into "full" batteries.

Ignore that meter. The only two methods of determining ‘full’ are a relative density reading, which you can’t do with sealed batteries, or measuring the charging current with the charging voltage circa 14.4V 

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I have a pack of el cheapo adhesive thermometer strips bought on Fleabay and stick one on each battery when they’re getting a bit long in the tooth. Not terribly accurate but easily shows when one is out of line with the others, isolate that one from the bank before it starts smelling and work out where to get new ones.

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On 23/12/2019 at 21:30, frahkn said:

The 14 C battery got hotter (18 C) at first but seems to have calmed down now.

 

Also the Sterling meter still says that it is charging into "full" batteries.

 

If necessary I can get to my home marina in two days and be on shore power. But would this help - surely even on shore power, the 12 volt demand is met by the charger via the batteries?

 

Anyway, for now all is well and from the 6th I can arrange a new set of batteries.

After 3 days with no problems, yesterday the 14C battery went suddenly to 77C so I disconnected everything and went back to the marina.

 

Now at home awaiting the 6th.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

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