Will new bill save red diesel?

[mrsmelly]

49 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Just a feeling, a gut feeling if you like. 40 years ago climate scientists were saying the evidence was pointing to another mini ice age on the way, so I am sceptical. 

 

Your observations are off the mark in my case. 

Don't know, you tell me. 

I have been to a brilliant money raising event for the local hospice tonight. There were 130 tractors all blinged up in a convoy driving through the local villages for a couple of hours. All burning diesel. I had a few beers with some locals I know and two families are flying off on holiday over christmas, one is going long haul. I will of course continue to re use my plastic bags from the supermarket whilst banging my head against a wall. Unless the whole world pulls as one then this blown out of all proportion nonsense about climate change isnt worth tackling anyway. 

[Detling]

In a bored moment the other week I calculated that the annual fuel consumption of my landrover and narrowboat in total, is about the same as a jumbo jet uses going from Heathrow to Reading.  When all holiday trips to Orlando are stopped then I will stop using diesel.  (a 737 would reach Cardiff on the same fuel) so even Benidorm has it's problems.

[Midnight]

32 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have been to a brilliant money raising event for the local hospice tonight. There were 130 tractors all blinged up in a convoy driving through the local villages for a couple of hours. All burning diesel. I had a few beers with some locals I know and two families are flying off on holiday over christmas, one is going long haul. I will of course continue to re use my plastic bags from the supermarket whilst banging my head against a wall. Unless the whole world pulls as one then this blown out of all proportion nonsense about climate change isnt worth tackling anyway. 

It's not the planet that's at risk it's the inhabitants. Nature doesn't give a flying fig, it's got all the time in the world to recover from anything we throw at it.

[Onionman]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

Just a feeling, a gut feeling if you like. 40 years ago climate scientists were saying the evidence was pointing to another mini ice age on the way, so I am sceptical.

 

Carl Sagan: "I try not to think with my gut."

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

I have been to a brilliant money raising event for the local hospice tonight. There were 130 tractors all blinged up in a convoy driving through the local villages for a couple of hours. All burning diesel. I had a few beers with some locals I know and two families are flying off on holiday over christmas, one is going long haul. I will of course continue to re use my plastic bags from the supermarket whilst banging my head against a wall. Unless the whole world pulls as one then this blown out of all proportion nonsense about climate change isnt worth tackling anyway. 

It's a mess as I said earlier people don't want to change so in the end most of us will meet an early end I suspect.  Me I will do my bit to help along with the minority and as we have discovered we don't count for anything against the majority. 

[Boater Sam]

Are we all missing something? Electricity generation by solar and wind must also increase the global warming even if only altering the re-radiation of heat from the planet.

Newton worked it out centuries ago, energy can neither be created or destroyed. So the capture of solar energy by PV or wind must contribute to the total energy absorbed from the sun by our planet.

[Chewbacka]

4 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Are we all missing something? Electricity generation by solar and wind must also increase the global warming even if only altering the re-radiation of heat from the planet.

Newton worked it out centuries ago, energy can neither be created or destroyed. So the capture of solar energy by PV or wind must contribute to the total energy absorbed from the sun by our planet.

Solar radiation is adsorbed by land, plants etc and warms the planet, the heat is then radiated back into space and so lost.  If it is adsorbed by solar panels and converted into electric energy, then that amount is not absorbed and re emitted, BUT the electrical energy is the used to power cars, heat and light buildings etc where ultimately it all ends up as waste heat going into the environment and radiated back into space, so net gain of energy by the earth’s environment is negligible.  Greenhouse gasses on the other hand do reduce the amount of energy emissions back into space and though the effect may seem small it is enough to shift the equilibrium state of the planet, aka climate change.

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

Solar radiation is adsorbed by land, plants etc and warms the planet, the heat is then radiated back into space and so lost.  If it is adsorbed by solar panels and converted into electric energy, then that amount is not absorbed and re emitted, BUT the electrical energy is the used to power cars, heat and light buildings etc where ultimately it all ends up as waste heat going into the environment and radiated back into space, so net gain of energy by the earth’s environment is negligible.  Greenhouse gasses on the other hand do reduce the amount of energy emissions back into space and though the effect may seem small it is enough to shift the equilibrium state of the planet, aka climate change.

I knew I would catch at least one! Seems there may be two, its got a greenie! Sorry Chewy.

 

There was a considerable tongue in cheek when I posted that.

However if we paint the planet black with PV panels there will be a considerable change in energy reflection back into space. White PV panels needed?

There is also the temperature difference between earth and space to consider, the warmer the planet gets, the greater the loss of heat by radiation to space.

 

All an irrelevance anyway, the planet will just get rid of us all and take care of itself if necessary.

 

What state was the earth in before the huge quantity of carbon was captured as coal reserves?

Edited December 20, 2019 by Boater Sam
added more

[roland elsdon]

17 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I knew I would catch at least one! Seems there may be two, its got a greenie!

 

There was a considerable tongue in cheek when I posted that.

However if we paint the planet black with PV panels there will be a considerable change in energy reflection back into space. White PV panels needed?

There is also the temperature difference between earth and space to consider, the warmer the planet gets, the greater the loss of heat by radiation to space.

 

All an irrelevance anyway, the planet will just get rid of us all and take care of itself if necessary.

 

What state was the earth in before the huge quantity of carbon was captured as coal reserves?

Hot damn hot

[Alan de Enfield]

Interesting feature on R4 yesterday about Warrington Council.

 

They have invested in two solar farms that will produce more power than the whole of the council uses, the excess will be sold-off and the profits put towards social & mental care.

 

The interesting fact was that they have used a new type of panels called "Bi-Facial solar panels" which are glass on both sides. The 'back' side picks up reflections from the Earth and produces more electricity.

The comparison (apparently) is that they produce 30% more than a 'like-for-like' single sided panel.

 

A step forward ?

[tree monkey]

42 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I knew I would catch at least one! Seems there may be two, its got a greenie!

 

There was a considerable tongue in cheek when I posted that.

However if we paint the planet black with PV panels there will be a considerable change in energy reflection back into space. White PV panels needed?

There is also the temperature difference between earth and space to consider, the warmer the planet gets, the greater the loss of heat by radiation to space.

 

All an irrelevance anyway, the planet will just get rid of us all and take care of itself if necessary.

 

What state was the earth in before the huge quantity of carbon was captured as coal reserves?

As a curiosity a chap called James Lovelock built a model called daisy world that sort of describes this.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisyworld

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting feature on R4 yesterday about Warrington Council.

 

They have invested in two solar farms that will produce more power than the whole of the council uses, the excess will be sold-off and the profits put towards social & mental care.

 

The interesting fact was that they have used a new type of panels called "Bi-Facial solar panels" which are glass on both sides. The 'back' side picks up reflections from the Earth and produces more electricity.

The comparison (apparently) is that they produce 30% more than a 'like-for-like' single sided panel.

 

A step forward ?

Of course it's a step forward, at least in my opinion 

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I knew I would catch at least one! Seems there may be two, its got a greenie! Sorry Chewy.

 

There was a considerable tongue in cheek when I posted that.

However if we paint the planet black with PV panels there will be a considerable change in energy reflection back into space. White PV panels needed?

There is also the temperature difference between earth and space to consider, the warmer the planet gets, the greater the loss of heat by radiation to space.

 

All an irrelevance anyway, the planet will just get rid of us all and take care of itself if necessary.

 

What state was the earth in before the huge quantity of carbon was captured as coal reserves?

That’s ok, sorry I thought you were dim enough to be serious...........

[Momac]

19 hours ago, Midnight said:

 

From the Queen's speech,  "..........the bill will also enable more British judges to depart from previous rulings of the EU's top court."
Would that mean good news or has the fate of red diesel tax already been decided?

It's anyone's guess.

I have not seen any evidence of any changes being put in place.

Wouldn't it be nice if we reverted to 100% domestic duty.

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

That’s ok, sorry I thought you were dim enough to be serious...........

As a Toc-H lamp on a bad day but not today.................................................................................?

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

As a Toc-H lamp on a bad day but not today.................................................................................?

That takes me back - tell that the youngsters of today ……………………………………….

[Richard10002]

40 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It's anyone's guess.

I have not seen any evidence of any changes being put in place.

Wouldn't it be nice if we reverted to 100% domestic duty.

Given that the red diesel issue was one of the two or three big EU issues here, you would think it would be top of our new governments list for sorting out.

 

I guess, “as long as it’s OUR government ignoring it”, that’s alright.... be careful what you wish for might be in the thoughts of some who voted for this debacle, but probably not many  

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Given that the red diesel issue was one of the two or three big EU issues here, you would think it would be top of our new governments list for sorting out.

 

I guess, “as long as it’s OUR government ignoring it”, that’s alright.... be careful what you wish for might be in the thoughts of some who voted for this debacle, but probably not many  

I'm not sure the red diesel thing has ever been an issue of national importance .... except perhaps  for people who own boats.

Even among boaters there seems little interest.

I voted remain by the way. But I among those who now accept we must leave the EU and make the most of it.

 

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

I'm not sure the red diesel thing has ever been an issue of national importance .... except perhaps  for people who own boats.

Even among boaters there seems little interest.

I voted remain by the way. But I among those who now accept we must leave the EU and make the most of it.

 

I agree. I make my point because, when I asked anyone who cared to answer,

 

"how has the EU law and regulation affected you in a negative way over the past few decades?"

 

The Red diesel issue was one of very few answers.

 

Given that it was one of the few things people could identify, it seems that hardly anybody has been negatively impacted by the EU, and one would wonder why on earth we are leaving. 

 

I accept that we are leaving. I don't think it will make much difference to me personally, and I much prefer a Tory government to a left wing Labour government as the least worse option.

[Momac]

We have been in the common market and EU  so long it's hard to see how modern life would be different if we had never joined.

However I have little doubt that things would be different.... probably  not in a good way.

I work to european standards all the time. That's not going to change in a hurry.  

 

 

[Iain_S]

12 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

(snip)

What state was the earth in before the huge quantity of carbon was captured as coal reserves?

Little free oxygen (none before plants developed), lots of CO₂, and no animal life ...

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Little free oxygen (none before plants developed), lots of CO₂, and no animal life ...

And I suspect that's what it will be like if a few years!

[tree monkey]

14 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Little free oxygen (none before plants developed), lots of CO₂, and no animal life ...

Until those pesky bacteria came along and started to excrete oxygen 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite

 

[MoominPapa]

18 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Until those pesky bacteria came along and started to excrete oxygen 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite

 

Photosynthesis. No good will come of it, I tell ye!

 

MP.

 

[tree monkey]

28 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Photosynthesis. No good will come of it, I tell ye!

 

MP.

 

Kept me in a job

[MoominPapa]

5 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Kept me in a job

I rest my  case.