LPSW4 Stop Solenoid

[Boaty McBoaty]

Have just bought a narrowboat and love it :-) but we have got an intermittent issue with our LPWS4 engine stop solenoid and/or elec supply to it. 

 

Engine worked fine for all our viewings, test run, survey etc etc.  But after completion Boaty developed an intermittent stop problem.  So no idea if this was an historical thing or only recently developed.  Nice bloke at Crick though showed us how to manually actuate the stop solenoid so no panics thanks to him.  We got our Boaty to our moorings fine and just turned the engine off each night manually.  After a couple of weeks I tried the key again and the engine turned off normally.  Worked ok for a week or so but now the issue back. 

 

Have found two topics on here which were really useful and have read those......…. So don't think its over current as we haven't had to use the solenoid reset (absolutely no idea where that is anyway).  The solenoid does feel a bit stiff when manually sliding the shaft into the coil to stop engine so wondering if this is normal?  Can't see anything on lubricating these mechanisms and a link in one thread to a solenoid service guide pdf document doesn't exist anymore.  So we need some advice please to see if I can solve it before calling the RCR folk.  

 

Image attached shows solenoid before engine starting and all looks ok to me but I am not a mechanic or electrician and boat experience is in days not years! 

 

On another note Interestingly our engine number starts 4600829LPWS4..... and a guide I looked online suggests the first two letters are the year of manufacture but don't think 1946 is right?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

35 minutes ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

Have just bought a narrowboat and love it ? but we have got an intermittent issue with our LPWS4 engine stop solenoid and/or elec supply to it. 

 

Engine worked fine for all our viewings, test run, survey etc etc.  But after completion Boaty developed an intermittent stop problem.  So no idea if this was an historical thing or only recently developed.  Nice bloke at Crick though showed us how to manually actuate the stop solenoid so no panics thanks to him.  We got our Boaty to our moorings fine and just turned the engine off each night manually.  After a couple of weeks I tried the key again and the engine turned off normally.  Worked ok for a week or so but now the issue back. 

 

Have found two topics on here which were really useful and have read those......…. So don't think its over current as we haven't had to use the solenoid reset (absolutely no idea where that is anyway).  The solenoid does feel a bit stiff when manually sliding the shaft into the coil to stop engine so wondering if this is normal?  Can't see anything on lubricating these mechanisms and a link in one thread to a solenoid service guide pdf document doesn't exist anymore.  So we need some advice please to see if I can solve it before calling the RCR folk.  

 

Image attached shows solenoid before engine starting and all looks ok to me but I am not a mechanic or electrician and boat experience is in days not years! 

 

On another note Interestingly our engine number starts 4600829LPWS4..... and a guide I looked online suggests the first two letters are the year of manufacture but don't think 1946 is right?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

What I found with my LPW4 was that the nut and bolt to the left of the connecting piece kept coming loose and so when the solenoid was activated it jammed. Solved it if I remember rightly by putting a second nut on the thread and locking them together (or I might have got a longer bolt so that I could put two nuts on it, can't remember for sure). Have a feel of that connecting piece and if it has a lot of slack in it, that will most likely be your problem.

[Ray T]

We have an LPSW3 in our boat. 46000065LPW3A047

Alpha LPWS indirect injection.

 

Where 46 = year of manufacture, in our case 1997, Marine Canal Star.

 

After several problems with our stop solenoid I took the thing out and replaced it with a "T" pull, had no problems since. 

This arrangement will need a return spring fitting to pull the handle down.

 

Ist 2 numbers are the Lister code for year of manufacture.

Next 6 are the engine No.

LPW# Type LPWS4, Water cooled 4 cylinder. Air cooled are LPA.

A = rotation, anti clock.

Last 3, build No.

Got the "T" pull from here: https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/search/shop-by/q/T pull/

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Ray T

[jonathanA]

The usual problem with these is the solenoid travel needs adjustment and the breaker trips needing resetting. The breaker should be on the top of the big white relay box fitted to the side of the engine below the air filter.

 

since thats not happening then perhaps the solenoid is faulty in some way or maybe it’s just a wiring problem eg a bad connection. Might be worth seeing what happens when you turn the key to the stop position. You should see and hear the solenoid engaging every time you turn the key. Probably worth checking the connections to the solenoid and there is a multiway plug behind the Control Panel and on the side of the relay box.

 

I seem to recall you can get non-original solenoids for about 30 quid off eBay, so I can’t really see the point in putting a manual stop in when there is a perfectly reasonable key Operated system fitted as standard.

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I've dug out a picture of the problem that I had with mine. It is taken at 90 degrees to your photo and if you look at the closer nut and bolt at this end of the cut off arm, the bolt has worked loose, which repeatedly happened. I got a self locking nut of the right size and screwed it on where it comes out of the other side of the arm (its a fiddly job), never had a problem since.

 

[David Mack]

15 hours ago, Ray T said:

Ist 2 numbers are the Lister code for year of manufacture.

 

For post 1951 engines you add the year code to 1950 to get the year of manufacture. So the OP's engine dates from 1996.

The LPWS4 was first produced in 1989.

Edited December 11, 2019 by David Mack

[Boaty McBoaty]

Morning all. Great stuff, thanks. 

 

Re. engine year 46=1996 matches the build start date was 1996 so thanks for that.

 

Think I will try and keep the key/solenoid switch off if I can but it's good to know that I can fit a manual pull cable if ever needed...…. 

 

Will be back on Boaty Friday to try fixing so really appreciate all the help and guidance :-) 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

Morning all. Great stuff, thanks. 

 

Re. engine year 46=1996 matches the build start date was 1996 so thanks for that.

 

Think I will try and keep the key/solenoid switch off if I can but it's good to know that I can fit a manual pull cable if ever needed...…. 

 

Will be back on Boaty Friday to try fixing so really appreciate all the help and guidance ?

Just out of curiosity, when you try to switch off and fail, do you hear any sound at all from the area of the solenoid? (indicating that it has power). When the arm on mine went out of alignment (see above) I'd hear a faint click from the solenod, but not the solid loud click you get when it works properly.

[Boaty McBoaty]

Two more questions if I may.....

 

1.  I assume I have an 'energise to stop' solenoid as the control lever position is the same when the engine is off and running and only moves when I turn the key to the stop position? 

2.  Does anyone have a maintenance manual they can point me to?  I found one online but not sure if this is the only manual??  http://engine.od.ua/ufiles/LISTER-PETTER-LPA-LPW-LPWT-LPWS-and-LPWG-Alpha-Series-WM.pdf

 

Thanks.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

Two more questions if I may.....

 

1.  I assume I have an 'energise to stop' solenoid as the control lever position is the same when the engine is off and running and only moves when I turn the key to the stop position? 

2.  Does anyone have a maintenance manual they can point me to?  I found one online but not sure if this is the only manual??  http://engine.od.ua/ufiles/LISTER-PETTER-LPA-LPW-LPWT-LPWS-and-LPWG-Alpha-Series-WM.pdf

 

Thanks.

In answer to your first question, yes, it is an energise to stop solenoid (hence the loud click that you get).

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

Two more questions if I may.....

 

1.  I assume I have an 'energise to stop' solenoid as the control lever position is the same when the engine is off and running and only moves when I turn the key to the stop position? 

2.  Does anyone have a maintenance manual they can point me to?  I found one online but not sure if this is the only manual??  http://engine.od.ua/ufiles/LISTER-PETTER-LPA-LPW-LPWT-LPWS-and-LPWG-Alpha-Series-WM.pdf

 

Thanks.

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you the owners manual and the workshop manual.

I also have the complete spares list (exploded pictures with every part number and name).

 

Happy to share them.

 

I cannot post it here as Pdfs are not allowed by the forum software.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

Email sent with attachments - let me know if it doesn't arrive. Some systems send my 'GMX' ISP into spam.

[Boaty McBoaty]

12 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

In answer to your first question, yes, it is an energise to stop solenoid (hence the loud click that you get).

 

 

35 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Just out of curiosity, when you try to switch off and fail, do you hear any sound at all from the area of the solenoid? (indicating that it has power). When the arm on mine went out of alignment (see above) I'd hear a faint click from the solenod, but not the solid loud click you get when it works properly.

 

When turning the key to stop I get the high pitch noise (same as when I warm the plugs up to start).  I can't be sure though if it clicks or not though as only tried actuating the solenoid when engine is running i.e. noisy.  So will try turning key to engine stop position next time on board with engine off and listen for a clunk in addition to the siren...…. am assuming this is what you meant?!

 

   

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 hours ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

 

 

When turning the key to stop I get the high pitch noise (same as when I warm the plugs up to start).  I can't be sure though if it clicks or not though as only tried actuating the solenoid when engine is running i.e. noisy.  So will try turning key to engine stop position next time on board with engine off and listen for a clunk in addition to the siren...…. am assuming this is what you meant?!

 

   

Yes, what you'll be getting is the alarm that operates when you switch off. Without the engine running, if the solenoid has power getting to it you should hear some sort of noise from it. If it is a solid clunk that is how it sounds when it works properly, if it is less than that it will probably mean that the cut off arm is out of alignment to the drive rod of the solenoid (as per my photo). For a while I just kept re-tightening the bolt but realised that something more needed to be done since the solenoid has quite a bit of force to it and if it keeps hitting the rod with bolt out of alignment it will eventually damage the thread inside of the cut off arm itself, preventing you from tightening it again. A self locking nut on the other side of the arm will fix it permanently.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Boaty McBoaty]

Hi all. It was the linkage and bolt as you all identified. With engine off I turned key to stop and heard a small click but no actuation. By hand I could turn the bolt a turn or two into the stop lever, tried again and click turned into a clunk and actuated fine. So I will do the locking nut fix and hopefully that job done ? for my benefit though does that bolt actually screw into a threaded lever arm? Or is it just a hole the bolt fits into? 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, Boaty McBoaty said:

Hi all. It was the linkage and bolt as you all identified. With engine off I turned key to stop and heard a small click but no actuation. By hand I could turn the bolt a turn or two into the stop lever, tried again and click turned into a clunk and actuated fine. So I will do the locking nut fix and hopefully that job done ? for my benefit though does that bolt actually screw into a threaded lever arm? Or is it just a hole the bolt fits into? 

Yes the bolt screws into the thread in the arm which was why I put the locking nut on the other side to secure it. I had repeatedly re-tightened the bolt and realised that with the force of the solenoid it was damaging the internal thread on the arm. If that had sheared completely there would then have been nothing to screw the bolt into without replacing the arm, and that looked a tricky task to me. I'd say it was a bit of a design fault since the action of the solenoid naturally undoes the offending bolt.

 

Hope you get it all sorted OK, I fixed mine over a year ago now with no recurrence.