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Replace Water Pump - rejig...


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Hi All

I need to replace my Jabsco water pump as its leaking. I've got the replacement and notice it says fit to flexible hoses to avoid noise. The current one may be connected incorrectly (see pic) as its 'hard wired' to the water pipes - its is pretty noisy when it runs!

 

So with the new one I'm thinking to use this opportunity to try and quieten it down a bit, plus it cant be good for the pipes to get all that vibration. I'm thinking about getting two braided hoses, cut off the pipes and use push-fit, going to 1/2" screw threads on the pump. I've not used pushfit before - do they all joint to each other ok or are there many standards? 

 

I had these in mind: https://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit-push-fit-flexible-tap-connector-hoses-15mm-x-x-300mm-2-pack/9938g

 

If anyone can see any better ways of doing this please pass on your experience!  thanks!!!

 

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Yep, thats atypical numpty fittment of a pump. Knackers em and makes em noisey. Use flexi hose as you say and dont screw the pump down whatsoever, its not needed. Helps if you can lay it on a nice thick rubber mat.

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9 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

 

 

If anyone can see any better ways of doing this please pass on your experience!  thanks!!!

 

20190913_145404.jpg

 

 

 

Just an observation :

 

Your wiring colours look 'unusual'.

It appears that the black (normally negative) is a 'positive' feed and you now have 'black going to red' instead of 'black to black'.

 

Combine that with the incorrect piping used, and the fact it is screwed down - is this a DIY fit out boat ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just an observation :

 

Your wiring colours look 'unusual'.

It appears that the black (normally negative) is a 'positive' feed and you now have 'black going to red' instead of 'black to black'.

 

Combine that with the incorrect piping used, and the fact it is screwed down - is this a DIY fit out boat ?

It's Elton Moss - assume its been like this since new?

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You should be able to fit 'hose tails' to it and also to the piping, try ASAP supplies then use about 12" of hose between them. I fixed my pump down with a thick rubber sheet under it (nicked from a pile on the railway - they use them between the rail and concrete sleepers) and it works fine.

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2 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

It's Elton Moss - assume its been like this since new?

It never ceases to amaze me what some "boatbuilders"  get away with - probably the fact that UK Narrowskip builders can self -certify that their builds comply with the RCD means all sorts of 'shortcuts' and wiring errors can be covered up, whilst a 'BOAT' builder would have independent surveyors examining the boat during build.

 

 

 

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Rob, follow the advice above, but I'd offer 2 things to consider:

 

Firstly, the input line to the pump from the tank. You can get spiral wire reinforced food grade clear hose quite cheaply (eg eBay), and this won't collapse under suction as fabric reinforced flexi can. You can use it on t'other side too to save ordering twice if you like. The clear hose will also allow you to see what's occurring flow wise should you need to.

 

Secondly, a loop either side of your pump will do much to quieten things down. Be careful just how far you go with silencing - the noise of a cycling pump is often the first indication of a leak or other problem, so you need to be able to hear it run.

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53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It never ceases to amaze me what some "boatbuilders"  get away with - probably the fact that UK Narrowskip builders can self -certify that their builds comply with the RCD means all sorts of 'shortcuts' and wiring errors can be covered up, whilst a 'BOAT' builder would have independent surveyors examining the boat during build.

 

 

 

My BSS inspecter  told me on Friday that self certification has ended for boat builders? I have not checked but he seemed genuinely knowledgeable and is a surveyor 

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People also use two of these to add flexible hose from the Speedfit pipe to the supplied hose tail fitment that should come with your new pump, also handy for connecting Thetford toilets to Speedfit.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/John-Guest-Speedfit-Tube-To-Hose-Connector-15mm-Tube-OD-x-1-2-Hose-ID-NC448/302748305589?epid=1162641458&hash=item467d3488b5:g:agAAAOSwOFFdU~Zn

 

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29 minutes ago, peterboat said:

My BSS inspecter  told me on Friday that self certification has ended for boat builders? I have not checked but he seemed genuinely knowledgeable and is a surveyor 

That's interesting, could you confirm that with him as I have seen nothing regarding it.

 

I'm not surprised as the examples of non-compliances on 'sewer tubes' is amazing.

 

I can find nothing about it. The last amendment that was approved by parliament was at the end of 2017, with the changes being :

 

Annex I.A.2.3. Protection from falling overboard and means of re-boarding – means of re-boarding shall be accessible to, or deployable by a person in the water unaided.

Annex I.A.2.4 Visibility from the main steering position now applicable to all craft (changed to include sailing vessels)

Annex I.A.3.3. Buoyancy and flotation/3.8 Escape – new wording introducing stability assessment for multihulls

Annex I.A.5.1.6. – Kill cord requirement for tiller steered OB engines

Annex I.A.5.1.6. – Deletion of mandatory tank ventilation for all tanks applicable only to petrol fuel tank spaces

Annex I.A.5.3. Electrical system – changes addressing electric propulsion

Annex I.A.5.5. Gas system – appliance requirement of flame failure deleted (covered by gas appliance directive)

Annex I.5.8. – Water protection – holding tank / treatment system requirement

Annex I.B – New engine emission limits – alignment with EPA 2010/CARB including test cycles and test fuels

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bee said:

You should be able to fit 'hose tails' to it and also to the piping, try ASAP supplies then use about 12" of hose between them. I fixed my pump down with a thick rubber sheet under it (nicked from a pile on the railway - they use them between the rail and concrete sleepers) and it works fine.

I screwed my pump down to a small sheet of ply about a foot square to stop it rattling around and then left that "floating" on top of a carpet tile on the floor. 

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From the first picture, it looks like the main cause of noise is because they have removed the rubber feet/screw mounts from the pump to lower it down more. Added to the pipes actually resting on the wood, then any vibration will transfer itself through the boat.

Lift the piping off the plank, use the rubber feet supplied,  pump on a rubber sheet, and it will all help.

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Thanks so much for the replies. Will defiantely implement the flexible hoses and move bits about. I'm tempted to put the pump within a large foil turkey tray to keep an eye out for leaks. I have one of these cheap Chinese water detectors which I could mount in it...… good idea, bad idea or silly idea???!!

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9 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks so much for the replies. Will defiantely implement the flexible hoses and move bits about. I'm tempted to put the pump within a large foil turkey tray to keep an eye out for leaks. I have one of these cheap Chinese water detectors which I could mount in it...… good idea, bad idea or silly idea???!!

Good idea. Ours is mounted vertically, with the motor at the top, over a tupperware (remove sandwiches first) that catches any leaks before they hit the bilge. You probably don't need the container and the water detector, as any leak will be quickly evident through the noise of the pump ( a good reason not to make it silent), and any water in the container.

 

Also worth turning the pump off at the switch if you leave the boat unattended for any length of time as advised by uncle Bizzard.

Edited by rusty69
top not bottom
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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Rice ?

 

If it swells up you have a water leak.

I like your thinking, but its not quite that cheap.... :)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Leak-Alarm-moisture-flood-high-level-detector-sensor-bath-sink-overflow-m/274126704226?hash=item3fd3398e62:g:3XUAAOSwnaBdJb0w

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This is what I did to reduce the noise. The pump is mounted on a thin paving slab, then covered with a wooden box with some spare sound proofing stuck inside.

I got the longest flexible pipes I could get so that the pump & box live under the sink unit with the long pipes allowing the whole thing to be brought out in the open for any maintenance/repair/replacement.

The filter, which wouldn't fit in the box is mounted in the suction line closer to the water tank outlet.

End result, OK not silent but a lot quieter than it was and certainly easier access than at the back of the sink or under part of the dinette.

20190429_140021 (Medium).jpg

20190429_140031 (Medium).jpg

20190429_140039 (Medium).jpg

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It never ceases to amaze me what some "boatbuilders"  get away with - probably the fact that UK Narrowskip builders can self -certify that their builds comply with the RCD means all sorts of 'shortcuts' and wiring errors can be covered up, whilst a 'BOAT' builder would have independent surveyors examining the boat during build.

 

 

 

The bit above is not meant to be here, wrong click

 

9 minutes ago, DaveR said:

This is what I did to reduce the noise. The pump is mounted on a thin paving slab, then covered with a wooden box with some spare sound proofing stuck inside.

I got the longest flexible pipes I could get so that the pump & box live under the sink unit with the long pipes allowing the whole thing to be brought out in the open for any maintenance/repair/replacement.

The filter, which wouldn't fit in the box is mounted in the suction line closer to the water tank outlet.

End result, OK not silent but a lot quieter than it was and certainly easier access than at the back of the sink or under part of the dinette.

20190429_140021 (Medium).jpg

20190429_140031 (Medium).jpg

20190429_140039 (Medium).jpg

How long is that black 2 core flex, I was just thinking about volt drop as it doesn't look very thick

Edited by ditchcrawler
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46 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How long is that black 2 core flex, I was just thinking about volt drop as it doesn't look very thick

I was thinking the same thing. When the feed isn’t even as heavy as the appliance cable then you’re doing something wrong. 

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3 hours ago, WotEver said:

I was thinking the same thing. When the feed isn’t even as heavy as the appliance cable then you’re doing something wrong. 

Two feet from the main line at the back of the base unit. I guess I need to add it to the jobs list to upgrade the cabling.

Thanks

Dave R

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On 09/12/2019 at 11:46, robtheplod said:

Thanks so much for the replies. Will defiantely implement the flexible hoses and move bits about. I'm tempted to put the pump within a large foil turkey tray to keep an eye out for leaks. I have one of these cheap Chinese water detectors which I could mount in it...… good idea, bad idea or silly idea???!!

 

I do exactly that but my pump mounted on the piece of ply on a carpet tile is in a square plastic washing up bowl. The alarm has saved a leak all over the floor and into the bilges once so far.

Edited by blackrose
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On 09/12/2019 at 17:50, WotEver said:

I was thinking the same thing. When the feed isn’t even as heavy as the appliance cable then you’re doing something wrong. 

I was under the impression that modern cable is more efficient and can pass more current for their size?

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