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Where to buy large quantities of antifreeze?


jetzi

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I didn't get around to replacing my engine coolant before last winter. I still have no idea what type of antifreeze is in there nor how long it has been in there. So I really must replace it before the temperatures drop more.

 

My two skin tanks have an externally measured volume of 36 litres each, and the engine manual says it take 7 litres. The manual also says it needs a strength of 33% to 50% antifreeze. This means I'll need a maximum of 81 litres of coolant, which means between 27 and 40 litres of antifreeze concentrate.

Now, I'm sure that the external measurements of the skin tanks have overestimated it somewhat, so I think I'm going to buy at least 30 litres of antifreeze and I think this will result an adequate mix plus some spare for topping up.

There doesn't seem to be that much difference in price between the blue, glycol, 2-year-life type and the red, OAT, 10-year-life type. Therefore I figure I may as well buy the red OAT type.

If I buy 5 litre bottles from Halfords at 26.5 GBP a pop, that works out at 159 GBP for 30 litres.

 

A number of people have recommended Ford Longlife, which I can find on eBay for 25 GBP for 5 litres. Oddly enough the listing says this is orange/pink and contains glycol?? This works out at 150 GBP for 30 litres.

 

Then there are larger quantities from eBay - here is one, DriveTec brand - for 35.1 GBP for 20 litres. I could get 40 litres for 70.2 GBP which is less than half as much as buying it in 5 litre quantites.

 

Here is a more expensive one - Smith Allan - 53.68 GBP for 20 litres, total cost 107.36 GBP.

 

At the moment I'm leaning towards buying 40 litres of the Smith Allan stuff. Does anyone have any recommendations for brands or places to buy them?


The second part of my question is how to drain my existing coolant. I have a large drum to put the old coolant in and take to a recycling depot or mechanic. I'm just not entirely sure how to get my coolant out. I have taken some pictures of the cooling hoses to show the possibilities. I think the best option would be to remove the bleed nuts from the skin tanks and try to pump it out with a hose. But I might be able to get some of it out by removing some of the hoses?

 

I gave a really good go of trying to get the bleed nut off the skin tank but it's stuck fast. My 16mm spanner was a tiny bit big and the 15mm a tiny bit small, and hitting them with a mallet did nothing. A bigger wrench would be a good start. Any suggestions here would be appreciated as well!

 

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Try Classic Oils website for Morris's of Shrewsbury antifreeze.

The weapon you want for the skin tank plug is a Stilson.  Depending on how much space you have either a 36 inch or a 24 inch would be good but they are also available as 18"s.  Wire brush the paint off before you start and refit with ptfe tape to seal.

 

N

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I recently bought 20l of the Smith & Allan stuff, so far so good.

My twin skin tank, calorifier and engine cooling circuit hold about 30l of coolant so your figures seem similar, but maybe a bit high.

To clarify, all coolants contain glycol (which is the antifreeze part), snd the additives pack (which is the anti corrosion part)vary depending on the technology of the coolant.

For nut & bolts that are a funny size, I have a good quality adjustable spanner, so far not let me down, though if the corners have rounded off a Stllson wrench is good.

Edited by Chewbacka
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IIRC  Beta suggest that the total coolant capacity of a typical skin tank system for my Beta 43 would be about 40L.  I would also suggest that you do not need stronger than 25%.  I think you are probably overestimating.  (Going stronger than you need reduces the heat carrying ability of the coolant.)  imho.

  • Greenie 1
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I did the ten year replacement earlier in the year. Brought off ebay

20 L Coolant Antifreeze G12+ RED Ready Mixed +125°C German Hi Spec

The company is based in Milton Keynes so if your still on the GU nearby you maybe be able to collect in person.

 

As for draining through the bleed nut you will not beable to get to the bottom of the tank due to the internal baffles in the tank. My own skin tank has a drain valve fitted to the bottom of the tank, so just a case of attaching a hose and removing the tank bleed valve and header tank cap, Then just pump out using the hose and refill with fresh coolant.  Used 55L of coolant as my skin tank is larger than standard for river use.

 

Testing the coolant with multmeter

https://www.familyhandyman.com/automotive/car-maintenance/coolant-testing-with-a-multimeter/

Edited by nbfiresprite
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18 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

IIRC  Beta suggest that the total coolant capacity of a typical skin tank system for my Beta 43 would be about 40L.  I would also suggest that you do not need stronger than 25%.  I think you are probably overestimating.  (Going stronger than you need reduces the heat carrying ability of the coolant.)  imho.

Going weaker does improve cooling capability but it does also weaken the concentration of the anti-corrosion additives in the coolant, so I wouldn’t go less than 33%, but that’s just my opinion.

 

added - diluting the coolant with di water is better than tap water especially if you are in a hard water area, as impurities in the water can use up the anti-corrosion additives.

Edited by Chewbacka
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OAT antifreeze is not compatible with yellow metals, so, if there's any brass or copper in the system, you should really stick to Glycol. That being said, before I knew it was bad, I used OAT and hadn't noticed any bad effects after three years, I did however change to glycol.

Euro Car Parts, GSF and any motor factors that sell to trade will stock antifreeze in 20 or 25 litre drums.

 

As for removing the old stuff, catch as much as possible, undo the bottom hose and drain into your bilge, then mop it up is one option. You should disable your bilge pump first though.

Buy a vacuum pump like a Pela 6000 and hope you can get the probe deep enough.

Depending on the age of your boat, the bleed valve might be an imperial size, scrape the surrounding paint off and try heat and a correct sized spanner, probably 5/8af, before resorting to stilsons.

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Problem is my skin tanks have no bottom valve, and the inlet and outlet pipes are permanently welded to the tanks. The tanks are in series and if you look at the third picture the only place connected with hoses that I could potentially undo is level with the top of the tank. It might be easier to put a flexible hose down that pipe though, I'll see what it looks like once I get the bleed nuts off.

 

Then I guess it is a case of flushing it out by putting plenty of fresh water in the one side and draining it out the other. I'll fill my waste drum and call it good - I don't want to have too much to dispose of.

46 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I recently bought 20l of the Smith & Allan stuff, so far so good.

My twin skin tank, calorifier and engine cooling circuit hold about 30l of coolant so your figures seem similar, but maybe a bit high.

Thanks for the feedback on the smith and Allan stuff.

 

Note that it is 36 litres _each_ tank, not in total. My estimated total is 81 litres! I got this figure by measuring the tanks externally. So I am sure it is substantially less than this.

38 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

suggest that you do not need stronger than 25%

This is good to know, I guessed stronger was better. But I think then I will start with a 20litre and see if that is enough. The manual says 33% to 50% so I won't go less than 33%.

 

22 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

diluting the coolant with di water is better than tap water especially if you are in a hard water area

Good call, I'll buy a drum of distilled water as well.

 

 

19 minutes ago, p6rob said:

OAT antifreeze is not compatible with yellow metals, so, if there's any brass or copper in the system, you should really stick to Glycol.

Oh wow, I have not heard this before. I don't think there is any yellow metal in the system but there could be, somewhere I can't see. What happens if you do have yellow metal? Does just that part corrode or would there be some other systemwide effect? OAT just seems much simpler and cheaper to only have to replace every 10 years...

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5 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Problem is my skin tanks have no bottom valve, and the inlet and outlet pipes are permanently welded to the tanks. The tanks are in series and if you look at the third picture the only place connected with hoses that I could potentially undo is level with the top of the tank. It might be easier to put a flexible hose down that pipe though, I'll see what it looks like once I get the bleed nuts off.

 

Then I guess it is a case of flushing it out by putting plenty of fresh water in the one side and draining it out the other. I'll fill my waste drum and call it good - I don't want to have too much to dispose of.

Thanks for the feedback on the smith and Allan stuff.

 

Note that it is 36 litres _each_ tank, not in total. My estimated total is 81 litres! I got this figure by measuring the tanks externally. So I am sure it is substantially less than this.

This is good to know, I guessed stronger was better. But I think then I will start with a 20litre and see if that is enough. The manual says 33% to 50% so I won't go less than 33%.

 

Good call, I'll buy a drum of distilled water as well.

 

 

Oh wow, I have not heard this before. I don't think there is any yellow metal in the system but there could be, somewhere I can't see. What happens if you do have yellow metal? Does just that part corrode or would there be some other systemwide effect? OAT just seems much simpler and cheaper to only have to replace every 10 years...

I have used oats ( the pink stuff) for 10 years I have copper in the system and all is well,  I would be buying from Euro car parts online as it will give you trade prices use deionised water as it is better good luck with the draining of the system,  just shows you how rubbish some boat builders are! No drain plugs I ask you ?

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9 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

To get the old stuff out without a drain (like mine) I was able to remove the bleed plug and insert a length of 10mm copper pipe down the hole to the bottom of the skin tank and pump it out with a pela type pump

 

which of course depends on the builder having not put the baffles in the way.

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10 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Problem is my skin tanks have no bottom valve, and the inlet and outlet pipes are permanently welded to the tanks. The tanks are in series and if you look at the third picture the only place connected with hoses that I could potentially undo is level with the top of the tank. It might be easier to put a flexible hose down that pipe though, I'll see what it looks like once I get the bleed nuts off.

You could undo the hose connections top and bottom, leave the bleed plug in, then connect a bicycle pump or car footpump to the upper connection and blow the tank contents out through the lower pipe. You would probably need a suitable adaptor to get an airtight connection though.

Might be a good idea to fit drain valves to each tank while the system is empty.

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10 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Problem is my skin tanks have no bottom valve, and the inlet and outlet pipes are permanently welded to the tanks.

 

That welded bottom connection looks deliberately designed to make it bloody near impossible to drain the skin tank!

 

One was to get 90%+ of it out would be to attach a compressor to the top connection which will blow it out the bottom connection and up the welded pipe. 

,

 

 

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I think along length of clear plastic hose with about a 6mm bore would push down that idiot bottom connection, around the bends and the end would droop down towards the bottom of the tank so Mikes 10% remaining could then be pumped out.

 

I despair of so many boat fitters "good ideas".

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As far as I know, old antifreeze doesn't lose its antifreezing properties, just its lubrication properties, and is not harmful. Therefore (1) there is no great rush to change it,, you could just measure its specific gravity for now, top it up if necessary, and wait until the nice warm weather in the springtime before changing it and (2) unlike old oil which contains lots of harmful residues (which is why it turns black) old antifreeze is not harmful so if you don't drain the last 10% it won't matter very much

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think along length of clear plastic hose with about a 6mm bore would push down that idiot bottom connection, around the bends and the end would droop down towards the bottom of the tank so Mikes 10% remaining could then be pumped out.

Or, once the 90% is out, drill and tap a hole next to the outlet and fit a tap. Lots of towels required to mop up the 10%...

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There are quite a few euro car parts branches canalside, depending which area you are in. I'd probably go for a 25 litre drum and leave it at that.

  You could try loosening the bleed screw when you have the system at full temperature, the heat can only help - don't go near it with stilsons, a tight fitting spanner of the correct size and possibly a length of pipe slid over to extend the leverage as a last resort. 

As for draining, you can take the bottom hose off at the engine end and place it as low as possible, you may be lucky to be able to aim it into a container..

Edited by BWM
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3 hours ago, The Dreamer said:

I think that this already contains a fair amount of water which is why it is lower cost.  At 50% dilution it is only good to -11c, whereas normal ‘neat’ antifreeze when mixed 50/50 is ok down to -37c.  You get what you pay for........

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I bought some antifreeze today from my local branch of Multitruck. They do a range of 5 colours, I got 5 litres of blue for £10.70; it is pre-diluted to be 60% antifreeze & 40% water which protects down to -56C so you could add another 5 litres of water to get 10 litres of fluid and still have protection down to -20C. I reckon that's good value (and it's cheaper in larger quantities) .

 

Their 15/40 mineral oil is pretty good value too - and no I don't have any connection with them, just been a satisfied customer for several years. 

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

I bought some antifreeze today from my local branch of Multitruck. They do a range of 5 colours, I got 5 litres of blue for £10.70; it is pre-diluted to be 60% antifreeze & 40% water which protects down to -56C so you could add another 5 litres of water to get 10 litres of fluid and still have protection down to -20C. I reckon that's good value (and it's cheaper in larger quantities) .

 

Their 15/40 mineral oil is pretty good value too - and no I don't have any connection with them, just been a satisfied customer for several years. 

Bit expensive for me I would expect pure antifreeze for that money also watering it down like you are doing removes the anti corrosion protection 

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