Where to buy large quantities of antifreeze?

[Onewheeler]

Just ordered some of this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEG-Blue-Antifreeze-Concentrate-BS6580-Silicate-Free-All-Year-Use-20-Litres/113340508842?

 

Seems a good price and should do me two changes at 2:1 dilution.

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, peterboat said:

Bit expensive for me I would expect pure antifreeze for that money also watering it down like you are doing removes the anti corrosion protection 

 

Indeed, if you look at say Ford's 10 year life antifreeze, the long life is only achieved if the antifreeze is at a 50% concentration.

[jetzi]

On 08/12/2019 at 23:14, Chewbacka said:

To get the old stuff out without a drain (like mine) I was able to remove the bleed plug and insert a length of 10mm copper pipe down the hole to the bottom of the skin tank and pump it out with a pela type pump

This will be my first choice. If there are baffles in the way I'll try the compressor and blow it out method.

 

On 09/12/2019 at 09:13, David Mack said:

Might be a good idea to fit drain valves to each tank while the system is empty.

I will do this, if it turns out to be very hard to empty the tanks. If I'm easily able to suck it up out of the bleed valves with a piece of pipe stuck down to the bottom, then I'll not bother.

 

On 09/12/2019 at 12:55, Keeping Up said:

if you don't drain the last 10% it won't matter very much

Unless I am trying to change the antifreeze type, not so? I hear they don't like being mixed. As I don't know what kind is currently in there I would not want to risk it - I'll be attempting to get as much out as possible and flushing well with water.

 

On 12/12/2019 at 13:21, Flyboy said:

While you've got it drained down I would do something about that plastic plumbing in the 2nd picture. You are asking for trouble if you don't imo.

Interesting you say this. This is the calorifier loop. All the plumbing on my boat is plastic push fit. What about this concerns you? Do you think that it can't handle the heat? These pipes have been there for a long time without any incident. And what would you recommend changing to? Copper? I'd wonder about the pipes work hardening given the vibration of the engine...

 

 

On 12/12/2019 at 15:54, Onewheeler said:

Just ordered some of this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEG-Blue-Antifreeze-Concentrate-BS6580-Silicate-Free-All-Year-Use-20-Litres/113340508842?

 

Seems a good price and should do me two changes at 2:1 dilution.

As this is glycol based this would only last a couple of years, correct?

Especially if the system proves hard to drain, I'd rather get the longer life OAT stuff if possible - works out a lot cheaper over the long run, too.

 

My only concern is the yellow metals thing - the calorifier loop, at least, will have copper in it, so I suppose long life antifreeze is not compatible...

[Chewbacka]

Just to clarify your last point, most antifreeze is ‘glycol’ based - often abbreviated to MEG (MonoEthyleneGlycol).  The compatibility problem is the mixing of non compatible corrosion inhibitors added to the glycol base.  The corrosion inhibitors a long time ago were often silicate based and that can precipitate out of solution leaving a powdery/sandy deposit if mixed with incompatible stuff. This then blocks the fine tubes in radiators and the heater matrix in the cabin heater etc.  The OAT you refer to is Organic Acid Technology and is more modern and longer life corrosion inhibitor.

 

As you don’t know what is in there at present - it might be silicate based inhibitors - it would be better to get it out but it is not that critical to get every drop out.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Chewbacka

[jetzi]

4 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Just to clarify your last point, most antifreeze is ‘glycol’ based - often abbreviated to MEG (MonoEthyleneGlycol).  The compatibility problem is the mixing of non compatible corrosion inhibitors added time the glycol base.  The corrosion inhibitors a long time ago were often silicate based and that can precipitate out of solution leaving a powdery/sandy deposit if mixed with incompatible stuff. This then blocks the fine tubes in radiators etc.  The OAT you refer to is Organic Acid Technology and is more modern and longer life corrosion inhibitor.

I see! So is the following correct:

Glycol (MEG) lasts pretty much forever as an antifreeze, but the corrosion inhibitors do not. Antifreeze with silicate based corrosion inhibitors is dyed blue and lasts about 2 years. Antifreeze with OAT corrosion inhibitors should not be used with yellow metals, is usually dyed red and lasts about 10 years. And never the twain should meet.

[Chewbacka]

9 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I see! So is the following correct:

Glycol (MEG) lasts pretty much forever as an antifreeze, but the corrosion inhibitors do not. Antifreeze with silicate based corrosion inhibitors is dyed blue and lasts about 2 years. Antifreeze with OAT corrosion inhibitors should not be used with yellow metals, is usually dyed red and lasts about 10 years. And never the twain should meet.

There are no rules for antifreeze colours, but blue tends (is always?) to be the old stuff.  That said, Blue, may or may not contain silicates, but as you don’t know it is best to not mix it with something new.

 

Not sure about the yellow metals concern, the OAT stuff was developed to work well with aluminium alloys as used in modern car cooling systems and to have a long life. 

[cuthound]

25 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I see! So is the following correct:

Glycol (MEG) lasts pretty much forever as an antifreeze, but the corrosion inhibitors do not. Antifreeze with silicate based corrosion inhibitors is dyed blue and lasts about 2 years. Antifreeze with OAT corrosion inhibitors should not be used with yellow metals, is usually dyed red and lasts about 10 years. And never the twain should meet.

 

Most OAT antifreezes last 5 years, Fords Super Plus Premium antifreeze is the only one I am aware of that lasts 10 years.

Edited December 16, 2019 by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space

[Chewbacka]

This set me thinking, and doing a bit of reading.

This is worth a read. https://www.holtsauto.com/prestone/news/why-is-coolant-different-colours/
 

They also claim that the prestone coolant is fine to mix with ANY coolant which would also imply (to me at least) as being compatible with yellow metals, and last 10 years.

 

 I think the main concern with yellow metals is that modern car engine where the head and radiator and possibly the engine block are aluminium based and so must not come into contact with copper.  That is a galvanic problem and not a coolant problem.  

[jetzi]

27 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Most OAT antifreezes last 5 years, Fords Super Plus Premium antifreeze is the only one I am aware of that lasts 10 years.

The Ford Super Plus Premium seems to be a well-recommended antifreeze. I have seen other OAT antifreezes advertising 10 years (including some that I linked to earlier) as well as some that advertise 5 years. The cynic in me finds it hard to believe that Ford has a secret formula that doubles the lifespan - it's probably just
 

11 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

This set me thinking, and doing a bit of reading.

This is worth a read. https://www.holtsauto.com/prestone/news/why-is-coolant-different-colours/
 

They also claim that the prestone coolant is fine to mix with ANY coolant which would also imply (to me at least) as being compatible with yellow metals, and last 10 years.

 

 I think the main concern with yellow metals is that modern car engine where the head and radiator and possibly the engine block are aluminium based and so must not come into contact with copper.  That is a galvanic problem and not a coolant problem.  

This was really interesting, thanks for this.

I notice that you can get a 20 litre of Prestone coolant concentrate from eBay for 66.63 GBP.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352360538574

Is Prestone recommended as a good brand? It might be advisable to get the Prestone simply because it does mix nicely with other antifreeze, just in case I don't get it all out. 

[Chewbacka]

10 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

The Ford Super Plus Premium seems to be a well-recommended antifreeze. I have seen other OAT antifreezes advertising 10 years (including some that I linked to earlier) as well as some that advertise 5 years. The cynic in me finds it hard to believe that Ford has a secret formula that doubles the lifespan - it's probably just
 

This was really interesting, thanks for this.

I notice that you can get a 20 litre of Prestone coolant concentrate from eBay for 66.63 GBP.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352360538574

Is Prestone recommended as a good brand? It might be advisable to get the Prestone simply because it does mix nicely with other antifreeze, just in case I don't get it all out. 

I have never used Prestone, but next time I change I will definitely consider it as I like the long life and no need to flush, just drain out most.

[jonesthenuke]

I have used Prestone antifreeze for the last 6-7 years. I get it at Costco, I happened to be in there today and its £12 for 5 litres.

 

[blackrose]

On 08/12/2019 at 22:20, nbfiresprite said:

I did the ten year replacement earlier in the year. Brought off ebay

20 L Coolant Antifreeze G12+ RED Ready Mixed +125°C German Hi Spec

 

 

I used the same stuff and got all the old antifreeze out with a wetvac, flushed the system and used the wetvac again. Plenty of it went over the engine room floor but it was easy enough to suck it all up with the wetvac.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

I have never used Prestone, but next time I change I will definitely consider it as I like the long life and no need to flush, just drain out most.

Flushing out the system isn't really that difficult as long as you have means of getting all the water up off the floor. But f you can't be bothered to drain or flush why not just add Ankorsol for corrosion protection?

 

https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/ankorsol-anti-corrosion-fluid.html 

[tizzy]

But having emptied the coolant from the system. How are you supposed to dispose of it? 

[nbfiresprite]

3 minutes ago, tizzy said:

But having emptied the coolant from the system. How are you supposed to dispose of it? 

The local Tip

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, tizzy said:

But having emptied the coolant from the system. How are you supposed to dispose of it? 

You take it to your local cycling centre

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You take it to your local cycling centre

What do cyclists do with it ?

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

The local Tip

When I had 30l of old coolant I phoned our water Company and she said as your local sewerage works is small (and can’t cope with 30l in one go) don’t put it down the toilet, she was also not keen on my taking it to the local tip because “they don’t understand these things” and she suspects they “tip it down the storm drain”.   So I took it to the workshop where my car is serviced and they put it in their waste coolant tank.  

[Keeping Up]

I know of at least 3 boatyards who will dispose of it for you, for a small fee. Unfortunately I also know that they simply wait for you to leave, and then tip it into the canal.

[ditchcrawler]

If I remember correctly our local metal recycling establishment takes it at a price but it seems of council run site doesn't 

 

 https://www.recyclenow.com/local-recycling?gclid=Cj0KCQiAovfvBRCRARIsADEmbRL1OS1iY5WG6PzpwPZC3podzKrO-w3ponmSEfxXsAKbrYtoCrc-3W8aAsVYEALw_wcB

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

When I had 30l of old coolant I phoned our water Company and she said as your local sewerage works is small (and can’t cope with 30l in one go) don’t put it down the toilet, she was also not keen on my taking it to the local tip because “they don’t understand these things” and she suspects they “tip it down the storm drain”.   So I took it to the workshop where my car is serviced and they put it in their waste coolant tank.  

She was clearly totaly clueless, as It is illegal to dispose of antifreeze down a drain or even pour it onto the ground . Antifreeze in as small amount as a polo mint in an Olympic size swimming pool is enough to contaminate the water . Garages have to pay to dispose of used antifreeze by licenced waste contractors . The fine if you get caught illegally disposing of it makes it more than worthwhile disposing of it legally. Most council tips will have a tank for old antifreeze, just pour it.

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

  Most council tips will have a tank for old antifreeze, just pour it.

Doesn't look like that here in suffolk https://www.suffolkrecycling.org.uk/where-to-recycle/hazardous-waste

[nbfiresprite]

46 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Doesn't look like that here in suffolk https://www.suffolkrecycling.org.uk/where-to-recycle/hazardous-waste

But they do collect for a fee, which some councils do.

[tizzy]

Suggesting you take it to the tip is all well and good. The volume you are talking about is substantial. At least double the amount you put in and all the tips I have been to do not have a facility for it. Easy to say. Hard to do. I question whether those who say it actually do it.

[nbfiresprite]

9 minutes ago, tizzy said:

Suggesting you take it to the tip is all well and good. The volume you are talking about is substantial. At least double the amount you put in and all the tips I have been to do not have a facility for it. Easy to say. Hard to do. I question whether those who say it actually do it.

I had no problem over the years, Every tip that I used, have had a tank for it to be poured into. Some tip staff may think its trade waste, But when you explain that it is from a boat no problem. The tanks are often not marked. 

[Sea Dog]

12 hours ago, tizzy said:

Suggesting you take it to the tip is all well and good. The volume you are talking about is substantial. At least double the amount you put in and all the tips I have been to do not have a facility for it. Easy to say. Hard to do. I question whether those who say it actually do it.

Well, I do it and I'd be very surprised to find others don't too as it's the responsible thing to do, whether it's easy or not. The real question is what do those who don't take it to the tip do with it.