Xantrex Prosine 1000i Inverter neutral-earth bond

[Sea Dog]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

 

I'm just glad I'm still alive. 

So are we.

 

[WotEver]

52 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I'm just glad I'm still alive. 

So you failed at step 1?  I’m disappointed in you. 

[macc]

On 02/12/2019 at 22:32, MoominPapa said:

We have its big brother, the 1800i. Absolutely stonkingly good piece of kit. Ours is at least 15 years old and going strong. It's neutral-earth bonded with no problems.

 

We use the power-save feature, which reduces the standing current to very low levels. The procedure for enabling powersave is a right pain, so it's worth knowing that there's a jumper or dipswitch inside that changes the default at startup from powersave-off to powersave-on.

 

MP.

 

 

MominPapa was your Xantrex 1800i one of the models that had the Euro type mains outlet on it where on the inverter did you neutral bond it cheers.

[MoominPapa]

2 hours ago, macc said:

MominPapa was your Xantrex 1800i one of the models that had the Euro type mains outlet on it where on the inverter did you neutral bond it cheers.

No, it has a BS1363 outlet, the standard UK square-pin type. It's bonded in the plug that lives in that socket, as far as I remember.

 

MP.

[macc]

Cheers for info think I`ll be swapping out the Euro 2 pin for UK socket and doing the same.  

[rusty69]

On 02/12/2019 at 22:32, MoominPapa said:

We have its big brother, the 1800i. Absolutely stonkingly good piece of kit. Ours is at least 15 years old and going strong. It's neutral-earth bonded with no problems.

 

We use the power-save feature, which reduces the standing current to very low levels. The procedure for enabling powersave is a right pain, so it's worth knowing that there's a jumper or dipswitch inside that changes the default at startup from powersave-off to powersave-on.

 

MP.

 

 

 

 

Hi MP,

 

So, its taken me nearly 3 years to realise I might like to try the power saving function on the Xantrex 1000i inverter. The instructions say the power saving mode can be activated using the optional remote display, which I don't have.

 

Can you recall if it is obvious which jumper or dipswitch within the unit will achieve the same function please?

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

Hi MP,

 

So, its taken me nearly 3 years to realise I might like to try the power saving function on the Xantrex 1000i inverter. The instructions say the power saving mode can be activated using the optional remote display, which I don't have.

 

Can you recall if it is obvious which jumper or dipswitch within the unit will achieve the same function please?

 

On ours your can activate it just using the power switch, but it's not obvious. You switch on, wait for the display to say "Powersave off", switch off, and then switch on again. Now it'll say "powersave on". Beware that there's a small time window somewhere in the startup sequence during which, if you switch off and on again it gets mighty confused and then cycles between powersave off and powersave on forever without starting up properly. If you get to this state you can recover just by cutting the incoming 12v with the isolator for a few seconds.

 

The jumper/dipswitch changes the default state at power up, so you don't have to go through this malarkey every time you switch on. I can't remember the details and I can't get into mine to look without undoing all the connections and mounting nuts. As far as I can remember, I never found anything online about it, so it must have been fairly obvious from the markings on the PCB which jumper for switch does this.

 

If I were you, I'd try the on-off-on technique first, to test that the powersave mode works ok with your gear, and if it does, isolate everything, remove the cover and look for a set of jumpers or dipswitches one of which is marked in some unambiguous way. 

 

HTH

 

MP.

 

ETA. Page 10 in here https://www.donrowe.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/prosine_1000_1800_owners_guide.pdf

Edited September 27, 2022 by MoominPapa

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

 

On ours your can activate it just using the power switch, but it's not obvious. You switch on, wait for the display to say "Powersave off", switch off, and then switch on again. Now it'll say "powersave on". Beware that there's a small time window somewhere in the startup sequence during which, if you switch off and on again it gets mighty confused and then cycles between powersave off and powersave on forever without starting up properly. If you get to this state you can recover just by cutting the incoming 12v with the isolator for a few seconds.

 

The jumper/dipswitch changes the default state at power up, so you don't have to go through this malarkey every time you switch on. I can't remember the details and I can't get into mine to look without undoing all the connections and mounting nuts. As far as I can remember, I never found anything online about it, so it must have been fairly obvious from the markings on the PCB which jumper for switch does this.

 

If I were you, I'd try the on-off-on technique first, to test that the powersave mode works ok with your gear, and if it does, isolate everything, remove the cover and look for a set of jumpers or dipswitches one of which is marked in some unambiguous way. 

 

HTH

 

MP.

 

ETA. Page 10 in here https://www.donrowe.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/prosine_1000_1800_owners_guide.pdf

 

 

 

That's great, many thanks. I don't have the screen, so it could be a bit tricky. I have tried the sequence thing on the off chance of getting the timing right, but had no success, so guess it might be a function of the display interface itself being connected.

 

Guess I will have to bit the bullet and take the case off and have a look.

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

Rgds

[MoominPapa]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

 

That's great, many thanks. I don't have the screen, so it could be a bit tricky. I have tried the sequence thing on the off chance of getting the timing right, but had no success, so guess it might be a function of the display interface itself being connected.

 

Guess I will have to bit the bullet and take the case off and have a look.

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

Rgds

 

Sounds like a plan. The only problem will be finding out if you've succeeded. I can tell cause the light in the (240v) fridge takes a few seconds to come on if the compressor is not working, or the angle grinder takes a couple of seconds to start after you press the trigger (which is bloody dangerous, BTW, I do not recommend this.)

 

MP.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, MoominPapa said:

 

Sounds like a plan. The only problem will be finding out if you've succeeded. I can tell cause the light in the (240v) fridge takes a few seconds to come on if the compressor is not working, or the angle grinder takes a couple of seconds to start after you press the trigger (which is bloody dangerous, BTW, I do not recommend this.)

 

MP.

 

That's true. I'm in search of saving that elusive A. I guess the battery monitor is likely to show if I have succeeded or not. Good point about the angle grinder.

[rusty69]

 

Having had a number of years out of my lovely Xantrex Prosine 1000i, I decided to upgrade/downgrade (delete as appropriate) to the Statpower 1800i inverter.

 

Being faced with the same issues as before, I also have the  added confusion of a euro/schuko socket instead of the UK BS1363 socket.

 

What are my options to N-E bond this inverter (assuming it can be done):

 

1. Replace the BS1363 socket with a UK socket, and make the NE bond inside the inverter.

 

2. Keep the euro connector and as above make the N E bond in the inverter. 

 

3. Don't bother to bond it at all.

 

4. Keep my truty 1000i and stick the 1800i back on e-bay

 

5. A N other option I haven't considered.

 

Notes:

 

Looking at the back of the socket (see pic),how would the connection be made if a replacement UK socket was used. I assume at the output of the small circuit board.

 

The euro plug appears to fit either way round in the socket. Is this a problem?

 

Comments gratefully received.

[BEngo]

I would start by checking that the 240 v outpilut is not actually centre tapped  120,0,120 V. If it is centre tapped  go for option 4.

 

Fit a different socket only if you need to, and can maintain the IP rating ( 1st digit)  of the inverter.

 

Then if fitting a different socket just connect blue to neutral and brown to line.

 

Keep the NE bond inside the inverter, though an external label to say it is bonded might help your heirs and assigns one day.

 

The euro plug going in either way is not a problem,  rather it is a design  feature; -the appliance earth wire is connected either  way and AC appliances don't care about N and L.

 

N

[MoominPapa]

If you're plugging a single device into the inverter, swapping neutral and live is not a problem, but if you're feeding a wiring system on a boat with fused UK plugs and a consumer unit with single pole circuit breakers, it really matters that the neutral (ie the power conductor that DOESN'T have fuses, CBs or single pole switches in it) is the one that's earthed. If you neutral-earth bond inside the inverter and keep the reversible shucko socket then it's terrifyingly easy to turn the plug around and negate most of your protection devices. I'd either keep the existing socket and bond in the plug, or swap to a polarised UK socket if you want to bond in the inverter.

 

MP.

9 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

If you're plugging a single device into the inverter, swapping neutral and live is not a problem, but if you're feeding a wiring system on a boat with fused UK plugs and a consumer unit with single pole circuit breakers, it really matters that the neutral (ie the power conductor that DOESN'T have fuses, CBs or single pole switches in it) is the one that's earthed. If you neutral-earth bond inside the inverter and keep the reversible shucko socket then it's terrifyingly easy to turn the plug around and negate most of your protection devices. I'd either keep the existing socket and bond in the plug, or swap to a polarised UK socket if you want to bond in the inverter.

 

MP.

As an illustration of what can go wrong: consider a desk lamp with an Edison Screw bulb, plugged into a switched 13A socket. The bulb blows, so you switch the lamp off at the socket and change the bulb. As you're screwing in the the new bulb, you touch the edge of the metal cap of the bulb. That contact on the bulb holder is connected to neutral, and therefore via the earth bond the hull of the boat, and you're fine because both are at the same potential. Now turn the shucko socket around: the output wire of the inverter that's now connected to the hull of the boat is the one that's going to the live wire in the boat wiring, the one that you've disconnected by turning the socket switch off, and which is  connected to the inacessible pip on the bottom of the bulb. The other side of the output goes to the neutral wire in the boat wiring and is therefore connected to the screw base of the bulb as you screw it in, even if the socket switch is off.  There's 240V between that and the hull of the boat. If you're in contact with the hull you die.

 

MP.

Edited March 27 by MoominPapa

[rusty69]

52 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I would start by checking that the 240 v outpilut is not actually centre tapped  120,0,120 V. 

 

Ok, I'm getting a bit out of my depth here, which probably means I should leave things well alone.

 

21 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

I'd either keep the existing socket and bond in the plug,

 

Thanks MP. Is there a preferred method of achieving this (pic attached of inside of euro plug)?

[MoominPapa]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

 

Ok, I'm getting a bit out of my depth here, which probably means I should leave things well alone.

 

 

Thanks MP. Is there a preferred method of achieving this (pic attached of inside of euro plug)?

That looks like a travel adaptor between shucko and UK plugs. I wouldn't use that, but if you have to, do the bonding in the UK plug that you're putting into it, connecting the neutral and earth pins. Much better would be to Ebay a rewirable Shucko plug and connect that straight to the cable, bonding the earth contact in the plug to the neutral wire. Note that which output of the inverter you bond is irrelevant,  the brown and blue wires can go either way round in the plug. (that's providing the inverter output is floating, which it is in this case). What important is that in the cable going to the boat the blue wire and the green and yellow wire are the ones connected, NOT the brown wire and the green and yellow wire.

 

Making this simple to avoid confusion. Get a shucko plug and attach it to the cable going to the boat. Brown wire goes to either of the pins in the plug, blue wire goes to the other pin. green/yellow goes to the earth contact of the plug. An earth bond wire connects the earth contact and whichever pin has the BLUE wire in it.

 

MP.