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BSS & Chocolate box connectors


Fender151

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57 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Interesting, but if you are going to join to cables with a choc block, and crimp one of those to each cables, why not just use a connector with a crimp at each end?
Same number of crimps, but no screwed connections.
 

Because by using a choc block you can easily disconnect an item like the fridge the op was asking about.

Edited by Flyboy
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You can use male and female bladed crimp terminals, or bullet connectors to connect up a piece of equipment, rather than a choc block as @blackrose says. This gives you crimp connections, but can be dismantled. I usually put a male terminal on the 0V supply wire and a female one on the 12V supply wire, so that when disconnected there is no chance of it shorting to the hull and makes it harder to connect the item reverse polarity (BANG!).  I do have choc blocks on the boat too, but they (almost) all have boot lace ferrules on them. The 240V mains wiring with Arctic stranded cable all uses boot lace ferrules.

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The connections for my Whale Gulper shown below. 1/4" blade terminals, male and female. Another advantage of doing it this way is you can size the crimp connectors to the wire they are going on. In this case thick cables to cover the distance from the batteries without undue voltage loss (yellow), connecting to blue crimps on the thinner Whale Gulper. Fully Insulated receptacles are better, as per the photos above. These were not, hence the insulating tape.

 

Jen

IMG_20191201_134754.jpg.6be95f4967a4d167c74d8a08207eca64.jpg

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I don't think any of the 4 different BSS inspectors that have come into my boat have ever checked any of my 12v connections. Perhaps they should have done? Some of my crimped terminals aren't the best.

 

If you twist the exposed multi-strand cable before inserting it into the choc block connector doesn't it stay together when the screw clamps it down? I'd never heard of bootlace ferrules before but wouldn't they create a single point of contact with the screw which in some cases (for smaller cables if the screw pushes the ferrule to one side), the contact area might be quite small and increase resistance?

 

I guess it's all about using the correct size ferrule and connector for the size of the cable.

The problem is that the rotating and pressing down action of tightening the terminal screw tends to cut the strands - some of them, anyway. Especially with finer strand wire.
 

No the ferrule gets crushed by the pressure of the screw, although yes you really need a ferrule that is roughly the right size

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Some choc blocks the screws don't come down on the wires, but instead press on a metal insert that traps the wires.  I reckon using these is much like if you had ferrules in, as the wire strands should remain undamaged by the tightening of the screws.

Yes that type is fine, no need to use ferrules.

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3 hours ago, WotEver said:

 

All the electricians I know have Wago connectors in their tool box. Not only do they make better contact but they’re much faster to use than chock block; important to a jobbing sparky. 

I have used wago connectors with no issues and keep spare connectors  on the boat.

I do know they dont survive a wet environment.... but neither does a choc block.

CPC sell Wago connectors  in small numbers . Quite good value if you spend enough to qualify for free  delivery (£8 last time I looked).

 

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Yes that type is fine, no need to use ferrules.

 

A reason to use ferrules not yet mentioned is the tendency for just one strand of copper conductor to escape as an un-ferruled wire is inserted into the chocolate box, metal insert or not, if one's eyesight it not what it used to be. This can lead to unexpected sparkography and possibly blown fuses!

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17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A reason to use ferrules not yet mentioned is the tendency for just one strand of copper conductor to escape as an un-ferruled wire is inserted into the chocolate box, metal insert or not, if one's eyesight it not what it used to be. This can lead to unexpected sparkography and possibly blown fuses!

Well perhaps but if you can’t get all the strands into the terminal, what chance of getting all the strands into the ferrule?

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4 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The connections for my Whale Gulper shown below. 1/4" blade terminals, male and female. Another advantage of doing it this way is you can size the crimp connectors to the wire they are going on. In this case thick cables to cover the distance from the batteries without undue voltage loss (yellow), connecting to blue crimps on the thinner Whale Gulper. Fully Insulated receptacles are better, as per the photos above. These were not, hence the insulating tape.

 

Jen

 

 

Th trouble with PVC electrical insulation tape is that after a few years the adhesive goes all gooey and the tape itself tends to loosen a bit because the adhesive is no longer working propoerly. If you try to take it off it's a nasty mess. I think heat shrink tubing is a neater alternative - if you can be bothered to shrink it. Not that it's any better if you need to take it off, but at least it's more permanent than tape. Just wondering - is self amalgamating silicone tape ok to use as electrical insulating tape? 

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11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Th trouble with PVC electrical insulation tape is that after a few years the adhesive goes all gooey and the tape itself tends to loosen a bit because the adhesive is no longer working propoerly. If you try to take it off it's a nasty mess. I think heat shrink tubing is a neater alternative - if you can be bothered to shrink it. Not that it's any better if you need to take it off, but at least it's more permanent than tape. Just wondering - is self amalgamating silicone tape ok to use as electrical insulating tape? 

Yes. Taking the photo of the whale gulper has nudged replacing the insulating tape with heat shrink on to my to do list. I've since acquired a selection of different sized heat shrink tube in a variety of colours. No idea about self amalgamating tape.

 

Jen

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Not sure if that's what's being suggested, but I don't think you could adequately protect a choc block joint with heat shrink.  If you are going to put it right over the whole thing, if it is big enough to go over the choc block, even the best shrinking stuff is not likely to close down in any way tightly onto the cables, I feel.

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15 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Not sure if that's what's being suggested, but I don't think you could adequately protect a choc block joint with heat shrink.  If you are going to put it right over the whole thing, if it is big enough to go over the choc block, even the best shrinking stuff is not likely to close down in any way tightly onto the cables, I feel.

Not choc blocks. It is for my crimp connectors pictured in my post:

 

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5 hours ago, bizzard said:

And non ones even mentioned giving the wire ends a scrape to bright copper before, crimping boot lacing, soldering and balls, especially soldering. No wonder folk get high resistance joints.

71-f5N9LeOL._SX385_ Quality street.jpg

Don't mention the War, and even more important don't mention soldering on this forum. :)

 

Everybody has a crimping tool with "professional grade" written on the box and these are much much better than soldering.

 

I have seen loads of crimped joints where a few strands have broken loose at the joint, but that's still better than soldering or choc blocks.

 

..............Dave

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Well perhaps but if you can’t get all the strands into the terminal, what chance of getting all the strands into the ferrule?

 

Far higher than getting them all into the chocolate blox, given the ferrules have a nicely designed tapered funnel to corale the strands together and into the metal tube, unlike the choco blox.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Is Aroha the boat with lots of windows, was Kermit green, cruiser stern with a BMC 1.8D? If so I know it well. Belonged to some friends of mine and I may have installed that fridge!

Hi Sam, nope must be another boat, with a non-compliant fridge connection. 

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Black Prince built my boat with choc block connectors throughout (except where there's a neg bus bar at the back of the fridge). I find the choc blocks very useful when changing light bulbs or fittings and they're very secure. No idea if or why they would be considered unsuitable for BSS if the correct size is used. 

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22 hours ago, dmr said:

Don't mention the War, and even more important don't mention soldering on this forum. :)

 

Everybody has a crimping tool with "professional grade" written on the box and these are much much better than soldering.

 

I have seen loads of crimped joints where a few strands have broken loose at the joint, but that's still better than soldering or choc blocks.

 

..............Dave

I can't help it if folk can't solder. Maybe they need to scrape the wires first. I've come across far more dodgy crimped joints than soldered ones. Virtually all my joints are soldered, always have been and with an air cooled ST2 solid mounted  doing its best to shake everythig to bits.

 Women being more gentle make good solderers.

Edited by bizzard
  • Greenie 1
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A quick update to save all you good folks re-writing your present list to Santa to include crimping tools and soldering irons.

Following a second visit by BSS examiner, we DISCUSSED the comment re-Chocolate Block (still prefer Box)  and it was explained, the comment was intended as an advisory  note that bullet joints are preferred to above, but was not clear the way the comment was worded, all sorted. 

 

I think MTB comments re-differentiating between BSS and boat survey are probably bang on in this case, still, we all love a happy ending!!  

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15 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Having suffered for years with poor bullet connectors on '60s BMC cars, they are the last thing I would use.

Ross-Courtney terminals with brass bolts, nuts and washers for me!

Good earners though.

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