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mrsmelly

House auction

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3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Have you ever bought an old property, knocked it down and rebuilt?

The problem is cash. As a developer you need to fund the old property, have the cash to knock it down and rebuild so for a developer that is likely near £500K. For Smelly he would need say £200K to buy the new house for his mum and £250k for the rebuild. All that spent well before the new house is sold for £750K+. A developer will not go over the 'normal' price unless there is a big opportunity for multiple houses. The profit comes with the ability to have £500K of cash available up front. Without that cash, you cannot do it.

Yes - I have bought an old property, knocked it down and built a new, larger property on the site but that is hardly the point.

By your logic, no developer would take on a single house plot .  They will  of course, on the basis of site value which is a residual calculation, starting with the gross development value, subtracting the estimated costs and expenses, including risk & profit and allowing for the cost of borrowing.

 

 

 

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Another little thorn!

Don't forget that you will have to pay the higher rate of stamp duty if you buy a house before selling the old house  that is another 10k on  a 325k house. Yes you can get it back when you sell the old house but it takes up to 3 months.........

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Our house insurers have included a cost of 'clearance' in the cover. On questioning they explained that in the event of a major fire it would cost (up to) £10's of thousands.

 

A typical clearance cost being £15,000 for a 200m2 building.

 

Demolishing a House – Order of Works

The following order of works is typical for demolishing a house:

  • Cut off and cap all services such as main water and sewer connection, electricity, gas and telephone
  • Erect site fencing and protect the site; erect scaffold if required
  • Hazardous material (i.e. asbestos) removed under licence or by specialists if necessary
  • Soft strip all loose items, kitchen, sanitaryware, and remove all cabling, lighting, plumbing, radiators etc
  • Remove all doors, windows frames, linings, internal/external timber mouldings etc.
  • Strip roof and lead flashings
  • Remove structural timbers, joists and trusses
  • Demolish walls, salvaging bricks for example. Unwanted materials can be removed for crushing
  • Break up remainder and grub up foundations and redundant drains

That is a reasonable summary.  You wouldn't usually remove all joists before demolishing any walls - as they would become unstable.  And you may not grub-up foundations but rather leave that to the groundwork contractor of any replacement, but this will depend on the nature of new and existing buildings. 

 

Half a dozen of us took a house down working  several Saturdays.  Most of the arisings was sold off site and the only real plant was a tractor and grain trailer to cart away the rubble.  Tile batten and other useless timber was burnt on site.

 

One chap knew what he was doing.  Broadly speaking, the house was taken down in the order it was erected.  The services were cut off, all internal fittings were removed.  Then, starting at the top the tiles were removed (and sold) before the outside chimney stacks were pushed over by putting your back on the rafters and feet on the top of the stack.  The central stack was taken down standing whilst standing on the ceiling joists.  Then the rafter and ceiling joists were taken down, then the first floor walls were taken out (whilst standing on the first floor boards)  and the rendered (and rubbish) bricks were chucked in the trailer.  As so on, salvaging what could.  We even sold the staircase.  We made a few thousand pounds - probably less than the nominal value of our labour, but satisfying just the same.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tacet
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2 minutes ago, Tacet said:

That is a reasonable summary.  You wouldn't usually remove all joists before demolishing any walls - as they would become unstable.  And you may not grub-up foundations but rather leave that to the groundwork contractor of any replacement, but this will depend on the nature of new and existing buildings. 

 

Half a dozen of us took a house down working  several Saturdays.  Most of the arisings was sold off site and the only real plant was a tractor and grain trailer to cart away the rubble.  Tile batten and other useless timber was burnt on site.

 

One chap knew what he was doing.  Broadly speaking, the house was taken down in the order it was erected.  The services were cut off, all internal fittings were removed.  Then, starting at the top the tiles were removed (and sold) before the outside chimney stacks were pushed over by putting your back on the rafters and feet on the top of the stack.  The central stack was taken down standing whilst standing on the ceiling joists.  Then the rafter and ceiling joists were taken down, then the first floor walls were taken out (whilst standing on the first floor boards)  and the rendered (and rubbish) bricks were chucked in the trailer.  As so on, salvaging what could.  We even sold the staircase.  We made a few thousand pounds - probably less than the nominal value of our labour, but satisfying just the same.

 

 

 

That is a reasonable summary.  You wouldn't usually remove all joists before demolishing any walls - as they would become unstable.  And you may not grub-up foundations but rather leave that to the groundwork contractor of any replacement, but this will depend on the nature of new and existing buildings. 

 

Half a dozen of us took a house down working  several Saturdays.  Most of the arisings was sold off site and the only real plant was a tractor and grain trailer to cart away the rubble.  Tile batten and other useless timber was burnt on site.

 

One chap knew what he was doing.  Broadly speaking, the house was taken down in the order it was erected.  The services were cut off, all internal fittings were removed.  Then, starting at the top the tiles were removed (and sold) before the outside chimney stacks were pushed over by putting your back on the rafters and feet on the top of the stack.  The central stack was taken down standing whilst standing on the ceiling joists.  Then the rafter and ceiling joists were taken down, then the first floor walls were taken out (whilst standing on the first floor boards)  and the rendered (and rubbish) bricks were chucked in the trailer.  As so on, salvaging what could.  We even sold the staircase.  We made a few thousand pounds - probably less than the nominal value of our labour, but satisfying just the same.

 

 

 

That is a reasonable summary.  You wouldn't usually remove all joists before demolishing any walls - as they would become unstable.  And you may not grub-up foundations but rather leave that to the groundwork contractor of any replacement, but this will depend on the nature of new and existing buildings. 

 

Half a dozen of us took a house down working  several Saturdays.  Most of the arisings was sold off site and the only real plant was a tractor and grain trailer to cart away the rubble.  Tile batten and other useless timber was burnt on site.

 

One chap knew what he was doing.  Broadly speaking, the house was taken down in the order it was erected.  The services were cut off, all internal fittings were removed.  Then, starting at the top the tiles were removed (and sold) before the outside chimney stacks were pushed over by putting your back on the rafters and feet on the top of the stack.  The central stack was taken down standing whilst standing on the ceiling joists.  Then the rafter and ceiling joists were taken down, then the first floor walls were taken out (whilst standing on the first floor boards)  and the rendered (and rubbish) bricks were chucked in the trailer.  As so on, salvaging what could.  We even sold the staircase.  We made a few thousand pounds - probably less than the nominal value of our labour, but satisfying just the same.

 

 

 

 

 

So good you wrote it three times.

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

So good you wrote it three times.

Sorry.  Somehow posted rather than written, three times

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Update. Thanks all,  I have had house valued and told it will fetch 220k by two out of three estate agents, the other is still thinking ?

So heres a first for Canal forum. First non tyre kicking member with 190 k cash can have it. Save me messing about with plonker tyre kickers that want to tell me ooooh its got a patch of damp just there you know..............Yes it will have it was built in 1626 and injected damp proof courses where hard to come by in those days lol

If you are shy and want to get in touch with yer money PM me.

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50 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Update. Thanks all,  I have had house valued and told it will fetch 220k by two out of three estate agents, the other is still thinking ?

 

The maxim amongst estate agents they never tell you is "First get the instruction, then get the reduction". Or in other words, out-value all the competition, then once you get a sole agency in the bag, set about reducing those sky-high seller's expectations you created in order to bag your sole agency. "I can't understand why there has been so little interest, it's a lovely house"... "Unfortunate timing, the way the market has turned against you"... "There have been so few viewings because most people select 'up to £200k' when searching".... yada yada.

 

So given two came in at the same value, I bet they were of the shiny suit persuasion, and 190k is what they actually expect it to make. So as I suggested earlier, get several valuations then take the lowest one and deduct £10k for a ball-park real life market value.

 

I'll open the bidding by offering you £100k. Where is it again?

 

:icecream: 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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5 minutes ago, StationMaster said:

Did they give any comment about Auction values?

Yes they all did. They all want to go down the modern auction method and one only used either modern or traditional. By so called modern auction they said it will fetch nearly as much as private treaty but could be as much as 20 per cent less by trad auction. Of course its just like listening to manifestos from eejuts like Corbyn and company at the moment. Non of them could lie straight in bed. I apprecite its not straight forwrd to value as its location is outstanding and there isnt another one like it anywhere, its a one off unlike sya a terraced street or new build estate that have a perticular value. Well in fairness they all prefere private treaty and tyre kicking so I am still undecided. I dont mind losing ten fifteen percent cutting out tyre kickers but 20 percent is a fair amount. Off to see one at their office tomoz. In fairness I can buy a smart four bed detached bungalow a few miles away for 170k so thats all that matters, its about looking after mum not making money.

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43 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The maxim amongst estate agents they never tell you is "First get the instruction, then get the reduction". Or in other words, out-value all the competition, then once you get a sole agency in the bag, set about reducing those sky-high seller's expectations you created in order to bag your sole agency. "I can't understand why there has been so little interest, it's a lovely house"... "Unfortunate timing, the way the market has turned against you"... "There have been so few viewings because most people select 'up to £200k' when searching".... yada yada.

 

So given two came in at the same value, I bet they were of the shiny suit persuasion, and 190k is what they actually expect it to make. So as I suggested earlier, get several valuations then take the lowest one and deduct £10k for a ball-park real life market value.

 

I'll open the bidding by offering you £100k. Where is it again?

 

:icecream: 

 

 

well, I have seen two strategy for market discovery of the value of the property,

start at high, and gradually lower it, till you get enough interest. Usually within a month or two, buyer feedback will tell you if it is on higher side.

The other way is to deliberately start at low price(offer in excess of) with the hope that it will catch eyes of lot of people and might start a bidding war.

I have seen both types of strategy employed by estate agents.

 

Nobody know exact value of the property, I know estate agents lie(most salesman do), but they want to sell your property as much as you do.

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25 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

, but they want to sell your property as much as you do.

 

I wish I could say that about the ones we we engaged to sell my father's house a few years ago!

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1 hour ago, restlessnomad said:

The other way is to deliberately start at low price(offer in excess of) with the hope that it will catch eyes of lot of people and might start a bidding war.

To Mr Smelly: as above, If you set the asking price at a figure you would accept, (£190,000), if the agents are being straight with you with their suggestions that it will sell for £220,000, (usually unlikely, but not impossible), then you will get offers of the asking price or higher very quickly.

 

Assuming this happens, you can invite best and final bids in writing or by email, supported by financial position, (proof of funds by way of bank statements and similar), perhaps giving 7-10 days for bids to be made. Once the bids are in, you pick the best buyer, and give them the go ahead to proceed.

 

If it's by "modern auction", "whatever that might mean), the above is more or less the process which seems to be followed, the difference being that a non refundable reservation fee is handed over by the successful bidder.

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We had a rental property that we wanted to sell quickly we got prices from local agents took £10k off the bottom of the lowest range given and sold it in a week dropping another £2k. This was 18 months ago. One of our sons has just sold his house after a couple of weeks there is obviously still a good market for realistically priced property.

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12 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes they all did. They all want to go down the modern auction method and one only used either modern or traditional. By so called modern auction they said it will fetch nearly as much as private treaty but could be as much as 20 per cent less by trad auction. Of course its just like listening to manifestos from eejuts like Corbyn and company at the moment. Non of them could lie straight in bed. I apprecite its not straight forwrd to value as its location is outstanding and there isnt another one like it anywhere, its a one off unlike sya a terraced street or new build estate that have a perticular value. Well in fairness they all prefere private treaty and tyre kicking so I am still undecided. I dont mind losing ten fifteen percent cutting out tyre kickers but 20 percent is a fair amount. Off to see one at their office tomoz. In fairness I can buy a smart four bed detached bungalow a few miles away for 170k so thats all that matters, its about looking after mum not making money.

Do you need the sale to go through at the same time you buy the new property?

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Knowing the very little of what I know of Mrsmelly, sorry Tim, I know he is a seller of a quick sale at reasonable price of boats. He is applying the same reasoning to this. 
 

Hope you get it done ASAP. This is when I start talking nonsense. eBay? Property Developer Weekly? (if it exists). Horse and hound? Lady Magazine? All less expensive than estate agency fees. 

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3 hours ago, StationMaster said:

Do you need the sale to go through at the same time you buy the new property?

We need the cash from the house to buy the next place. We are considering a 6 months let somewhere just to move out and get on with things but then thats two moves for very elderly mother. Its far from straightforward and of course there is a lot of family stuff getting in the way as well although only logisticaly, we are all playing off the same hymn sheet at least. In fairness to my younger sister she has bore the brunt of it for several years and isnt shall we say " In the best place " herself. We are going to move in but its certainly not what we want after living on our boat we are dreading it. Back on my boat from this afternoon for a few days now and can honestly say You can all keep yer properties to live in, been there done that and not looking forward to having to do it now but hey ho, lifes a bitch, then you marry one, then you die as they say.

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Thinking out loud....

 

Rather than doing a 6 month let (and getting screwed into 12 months when the house sale takes 6 months and 3 days) look into the possibility of a bridging loan, I suspect that the costs involved will be similar to renting somewhere, but it would mean only one move instead of two.

 

another thing to bear in mind about renting is that although your mum is doing fine at the moment that can change in an instant from a slip or fall and can lead to adaptations being needed in the house, if renting temporarily that could mean having to make changes in the rented house, then having to make the same changes in the new house and having to undo them in the rented house again.

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Bridging loans might be difficult if the 'money' is in the name of a 99 year old (there are a lot more financial checks and hoops to sort nowadays) - worth checking out though.

 

Personally given the situation I'd go for sale by private treaty, and aim for no more than 2 stages in the chain below you (i.e. buyer of your Mum's + 1 other) with no chain above you.

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36 minutes ago, StationMaster said:

Bridging loans might be difficult if the 'money' is in the name of a 99 year old (there are a lot more financial checks and hoops to sort nowadays) - worth checking out though.

 

Personally given the situation I'd go for sale by private treaty, and aim for no more than 2 stages in the chain below you (i.e. buyer of your Mum's + 1 other) with no chain above you.

Whilst I am very pleased with absolutely everyones respone it has to be said that loans never come into my life. Mum paid her mortgage off aged 33 in 1953 and bought this house cash and never borrowed a penny since and I have had zero debt for many years. Life without debt is your own life, any debt makes you beholden to others and no amount of " Stuff " is worth any debt. Others of course have their own opinions and I was in debt for a mortgage for quite a long time over the years.

Edited by mrsmelly
numpty

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In a different life I'd bite your hand off Tim and happily exchange my terraced town house in Ashford Kent (worth about £250k) for what sounds like a delightful house in a beautiful area. Unfortunately I have a huge family support network down here and my first grandchild on the way (I'm going to be a grandma!!!!!) so Kent it must be.
Best of luck matey doing the best for your ma whilst navigating shark infested waters.

 

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23 hours ago, Ange said:

In a different life I'd bite your hand off Tim and happily exchange my terraced town house in Ashford Kent (worth about £250k) for what sounds like a delightful house in a beautiful area. Unfortunately I have a huge family support network down here and my first grandchild on the way (I'm going to be a grandma!!!!!) so Kent it must be.
Best of luck matey doing the best for your ma whilst navigating shark infested waters.

 

Bloomin eck ange ...........first grandsprog!! do you want a few more we have a surplus? :D

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