Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
KP888

Heating Dilemma, Boatman water from header

Featured Posts

We have recently purchased our first boat and collected it yesterday, the boats previous keeper had sold it due to ill health so we have only had the benefit of a handover from a brokerage with a point out as its its fittings, 

we were told the BMC runs the calorifier as does the boatman stove.

The system has a run along both sides of the boat and feeds a small radiator in the bedroom, we were told this had been turned off due to a leak on it.

we cruised about 5 hours towards our moorings and had hot water from the tap, we fired up the stove whilst still running and after inspection of the road all looked good, my dad turned on the rad and we started to get a flow that was extending down towards the stove at the front and no leaks.

i then started to get a back feed through the header in the engine room.

once the rad was closed off this stopped again.

is that due to a crossover in the systems running together?

is that an air bleed issue?

ive been looking around for an answer and note the mention of antifreeze? Is that a standard motor antifreeze?

 

 

Edited by KP888

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may find that there are stop cocks in the system between the engine and stove, only one should be on at a time. You may also have an airlock in the system which is forcing the liquid out as the air expands with the heat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

There is probably a header tank for the engine and a separate one for the heating system. It is very unlikely that the hot water from the Boatman is passing through the same coil in the calorifier as the water from the engine. As Matty has said it is likely to be caused by air in the system. Try bleeding the radiators and if that doesn't fix it, work out which coil in the calorifier is connected to the Boatman and bleed any air if you can by loosening the connections until anti freeze/water comes through.  You might need to do a similar bleeding of any connection in the system you can find.

Most people do use  automotive anti freeze in their heating systems. You will need to be careful which one you add, if you need to, since they are not all compatible with each other. Check the colour. If you need to top up, mix the antifreeze with water before you add it to the system.

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That does make sense, there are a number of stop valves in the engine room and under the bed by the cylinder, I take it if I just shut off in the engine room and try it from there 

thanks for the advice 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be very careful to ensure that you do not shut too many stop cocks at once.  You mustc keep  a water circuit open through  the boatman if it is lit.  Otherwise you will probably burst the back boiler if you are lucky and have an explosion if you are not.

The engine is also not going to like being overheated.

 

Better to try and trace the pipework and draw a diagram showing where the stop taps are, before you start twiddling.

 

N

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has two headers the engine is on the brass pressure cap type 

the heating is a grey box with a lid that’s just clipped in place 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KP888 said:

It has two headers the engine is on the brass pressure cap type 

the heating is a grey box with a lid that’s just clipped in place 

This tells us that you have a pressurised cooling system which would typically run at 6psi plus once the engine has heated up, the coolant expanded and thus pressurised the cooling system. If you open a valve and connect the cooling system to the heating system the coolant pressure will expel liquid from the cooling header tank. The way engine and stove/boiler heating of domestic water is usually done is with a two coil calorifier so the two systems are totally separate. It can also be done via a heat  exchanger but then other problems come into play. I suspect your calorifier has just one coil with a cobbled up system connecting it to the engine.

 

If your calorifier has just four pipe connections its a single coil one, if six it has a twin coil. If it is a twin coil I suspect it may be air in the heating system as already said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another possibility is that there may be an electric pump in the plumbing loop through the boatman stove. If this is not switched on when the stove is lit, then this can lead to local overheating and header tank overflow may happen. Not all heating systems have, or need a pump, but some do.

Whereabouts are you at the moment. There may be a CWDF member nearby who could be willing to take a look.

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the great advice, I’m working but am going to take a look with my dad later 

I’ll feedback when we get more of an idea, we’re at Shardlow presently until the river goes down so for a while 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KP888 said:

Thanks all for the great advice, I’m working but am going to take a look with my dad later 

I’ll feedback when we get more of an idea, we’re at Shardlow presently until the river goes down so for a while 

The Trent has got to fall over 2ft before it goes into the amber at Shardlow and the flow has got to reduce considerably. CRT then have to open the flood gates at Cranfleet if you are going to Nottingham.

If you can't sort out the problems I may be able to help one day next week as I'm only at Loughborough.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right thanks all, it’s a 6 entry Calorifier so separate systems, electric pump  

it Was well air-locked, now all bled and running I’ve only put about an inch in the bottom of the header how much should I have in there 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right thanks all, it’s a 6 entry Calorifier so separate systems, electric pump  

it Was well air-locked, now all bled and running I’ve only put about an inch in the bottom of the header how much should I have in there 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, KP888 said:

’ve only put about an inch in the bottom of the header how much should I have in there 

Maybe half full when cold? If that is too much the excess will be vented out the pressure cap. Good news it is working. ?

 

Jen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Maybe half full when cold? If that is too much the excess will be vented out the pressure cap. Good news it is working. ?

 

Jen

Or top it up when it’s been hot for a while, leaving an inch or two, then when it cools mark the level (max) for future cold topping up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Or top it up when it’s been hot for a while, leaving an inch or two, then when it cools mark the level (max) for future cold topping up.

Pressurised, so be careful not to get scalded when removing the cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s not pressurised, it’s a grey plastic box with a pipe in to the bottom and a clip on lid about 12 inch’s tall 

I’ll get an image later 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, KP888 said:

It’s not pressurised, it’s a grey plastic box with a pipe in to the bottom and a clip on lid about 12 inch’s tall 

I’ll get an image later 

Apologies. I misremembered what you'd said in reply #6. @Chewbacka's suggestion is a good one. From the sound of it, I have a similar, if not identical header tank on my boats back boiler heating system. They do need topping up once, or twice a year, due to evaporation. Consider draining it down and putting in some fresh inhibitor at some point. If the boat is going to be left unoccupied in winter sometimes, then some antifreeze inhibitor is a good idea.

 

Jen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Pressurised, so be careful not to get scalded when removing the cap.

Thanks, that’s a good warning for those with a pressurised system.  I should have made that clear.  Don’t want scalded boaters.

Edited by Chewbacka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve got issues again and having searched around the web it would appear that the gate valves in the system are for balancing the system not just to shut sections off

 

I'm struggling to find a how to do this as our system now we are getting it used it to right, I’ve chased airlocks the flow isn’t consistent so still plenty to do

Any advice would be greatly received as I’m having another go at it this evening 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gate valves are not great for balancing flows.  They tend to need a lot of shutness to have any effect then it all happens in half a turn.

Buy a couple of cheap central heating thermometers from a DIY shed, or an IR thermometer, so you can see what the inlet and outlet temperatures are, and how they change as you tweak things.

Proceed slowly, make small changes to one valve at a time and wait at least 15 minutes to see what happens before changing anything else.  As you get close to balance, wait even longer.  Try to keep the fire at an even burn rate.  If it goes up and down so will the temperatures and you will not know whether you are on your ear or your elbow!

Above all be patient, if you can.

 

N

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.