Hooking up a Victron MultiPlus 2000w 12v Inverter/Charger

[Jim Batty]

Our old PowerMaster 1500w Inverter/Charger just blew up (quite dramatically, issuing smoke and flame at 4am). I'm looking to replace it ... probably with a Victron multiplus 2000w 12v Inverter/Charger. (Victron 2000w)

 

Knowing little about electronics and electrics, I'm wondering, Is it a fairly simple matter of unhooking the old PowerMaster (Battery + / Battery - / AC In / AC out / ground wires) and wiring in a new Victron inverter/charger. Or is the Victron much more complicated than that?

 

Also, with the old PowerMaster I was able to configure things like battery bank size, battery type, charging routine, etc. by reading the manual and pushing buttons on the front. Is it the same with the Victron or is it more complicated and really requires a technician? I don't want to bugger up a new, expensive piece of electronics.

 

Anybody have experience hooking up Victrons?

 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

32 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Also, with the old PowerMaster I was able to configure things like battery bank size, battery type, charging routine, etc. by reading the manual and pushing buttons on the front. Is it the same with the Victron or is it more complicated and really requires a technician?

More complicated. A lot of configuration can only be with a Victron hardware inferface and either a VE.net panel, or a laptop and their software installed. Some settings can be changed on internal DIP switches. See the manual.

Impossible to say if you can do it yourself, or not. You also need to ensure that cable lengths/sizes, fuses, location and AC electrics are also correct. Unless you are comfortable with all that, then get in someone who knows boat electrics and can configure Victron stuff, especially if you want to change the as shipped standard settings. It is an expensive blue box to make go bang. If your old inverter was wired in with poor practices, then simply replacing it with a Victron will just carry those over.

 

Jen, who has hooked up Victron combis, but kept the standard settings.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Sea Dog]

I've fitted Victron equipment and found it all to be very straightforward. Sure, it's often very configurable and not everything can be done through the bank of dip switches, but you can do enough for most needs. Why not download the installation instructions (free) from their website and see how you feel after reading them?

[nicknorman]

55 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Our old PowerMaster 1500w Inverter/Charger just blew up (quite dramatically, issuing smoke and flame at 4am). I'm looking to replace it ... probably with a Victron multiplus 2000w 12v Inverter/Charger. (Victron 2000w)

 

Knowing little about electronics and electrics, I'm wondering, Is it a fairly simple matter of unhooking the old PowerMaster (Battery + / Battery - / AC In / AC out / ground wires) and wiring in a new Victron inverter/charger. Or is the Victron much more complicated than that?

 

Also, with the old PowerMaster I was able to configure things like battery bank size, battery type, charging routine, etc. by reading the manual and pushing buttons on the front. Is it the same with the Victron or is it more complicated and really requires a technician? I don't want to bugger up a new, expensive piece of electronics.

 

Anybody have experience hooking up Victrons?

 

Yes it is mostly about the 12v and mains in mains out connections. I'm sure it will work out of the box just with that. It is true that there are quite a lot of settings that you might want to change to optimise the setup. The main ones being the adaptive charging (which tends to under-charge the batteries) and the mains quality setting if you want to power it from a generator. But afaik these can be done from the DIP switches. As has been said, read the manual first!

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Our old PowerMaster 1500w Inverter/Charger just blew up (quite dramatically, issuing smoke and flame at 4am). I'm looking to replace it ... probably with a Victron multiplus 2000w 12v Inverter/Charger.

If the old 1500w inverter was wired to the batteries with marginal / minimum sized cables they may be insufficient for an inverter that will / can take a 33% greater load.

 

You may need to replace them with correctly sized ones for the new inverter.

[Jim Batty]

I've printed off the manual, so will have a read and see what I think.

 

... and check the wire sizes.

[Jim Batty]

Having read the manual, it looks like the standard settings would be fine. It would be one stand-alone unit, we don't use a generator.

The only modifications that I might want to configure is the battery charging sequence (there are 4 different kinds). The default is: Absorbtion 14.4v / Float 13.8v / Storage Voltage 13.2v / absorbtion = 8hrs.

 

Curiously, for all 4 charging sequences, the float is 13.8v. On our old inverter/charger the float was always about 13.4v. Does 13.8v float sound right to charge a set of Numax Sealed (wet) Leisure Batteries?

 

Not sure what 'storage voltage' is.

 

There doesn't seem to be a setting for battery bank size (450Ah in our case). Does this Victron system 'sense the size of the battery bank'?

 

I am not familiar with DIP switches. Are these straight forward ... on/off little switches?

 

Jen, have you ever set 'Search Mode' on a Victron ... to perhap save some energy?

 

 

Thanks everyone for any insights.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Jim Batty

[Jen-in-Wellies]

30 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

There doesn't seem to be a setting for battery bank size (450Ah in our case). Does this Victron system 'sense the size of the battery bank'?

It doesn't need to. The charger current needs to be matched to the battery bank size, but that is a matter of buying a combi with the appropriate current to either charge from low, or maintain the charge, depending on how you use your boat. My 1600VA Victron combi is perfectly adequate for charging 4x115Ahr batteries and a 60Ahr start battery from low, for example. For inverting, it will just draw the current it needs till the battery voltage drops below the set level, when it will alarm and shut off the mains output.

 

30 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

I am not familiar with DIP switches. Are these straight forward ... on/off little switches?

They are. They are little switches on the circuit board under the front cover of the combi. DIP stands for dual inline package and are switches that can be placed and soldered on to a circuit board by automated manufacturing equipment. like other electronic components. Often used for configuration settings that will not need altering often. They are easy to set, but small. A cocktail stick, or match stick may be useful if you have sausage fingers. ? Just set the combination you want for charging regime on two of the switches, then cycle the end switch to store the new setting in the units memory, as described in the manual.

30 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Jen, have you ever set 'Search Mode' on a Victron ... to perhap save some energy?

Never tried I'm afraid. What does it do? My inverter is pretty ancient now, so it may not have it.

 

Edited to add: Search mode can cause problems with things like phone chargers, where the power draw is below the threshold for turning on the mains. Fridges can also be a problem sometimes. I've never tried it, but some have. Depends what gadgets you have hooked up to the mains if you can live with it or not.

 

Jen

Edited November 28, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Dav and Pen]

We had a 3kw 70 amp combi on the barge brought in 2007 and still working when we sold this year. I seem to remember  it needed to be set for the type of battery being charged using the dip switch and also the amperage of the battery bank. Otherwise used it as it came out of the box. As others have said use the right sized cables. The older ones didn’t have a computer interface but it did come with a variable amp setting for shore power so that we’re there was poor supply you could set the unit to switch from shore to inverter if a heavy use was switched on. It was quite amazing that if the shore power went out the box switched so quickly that the tv never blinked. It was on permanently to run a mains voltage fridge . 

[Dinz]

Hi Jim.

Where is your location?

I have the interface module and a PC with the software.

Dave

[nicknorman]

38 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Having read the manual, it looks like the standard settings would be fine. It would be one stand-alone unit, we don't use a generator.

The only modifications that I might want to configure is the battery charging sequence (there are 4 different kinds). The default is: Absorbtion 14.4v / Float 13.8v / Storage Voltage 13.2v / absorbtion = 8hrs.

 

Curiously, for all 4 charging sequences, the float is 13.8v. On our old inverter/charger the float was always about 13.4v. Does 13.8v float sound right to charge a set of Numax Sealed (wet) Leisure Batteries?

 

Not sure what 'storage voltage' is.

 

There doesn't seem to be a setting for battery bank size (450Ah in our case). Does this Victron system 'sense the size of the battery bank'?

 

I am not familiar with DIP switches. Are these straight forward ... on/off little switches?

 

Jen, have you ever set 'Search Mode' on a Victron ... to perhap save some energy?

 

 

Thanks everyone for any insights.

 

 

I think Victron use different terminology compared to everyone else. They consider bulk the phase before the charger reaches its regulated voltage, hence no bulk voltage is mentioned. Absorb is the first phase with constant voltage, then float which is quite a high voltage as you say (but not catastrophically so) and then, after 24hrs of no use, it goes to storage.

 

I think with your batteries, which have a high calcium content, the 13.8 won’t be a problem.

 

I would monitor its behaviour, people have reported problems with these devices going to float too early and thus not charging the batteries fully. That is the “adaptive charge” function. I think you can only turn it off with a PC though.

[nb Innisfree]

Just a precaution:

I don't know if it's the same now but the older Victrons weren't polarity protected. I was advised by my supplier to leave the main incoming DC fuse out before connecting batteries until I was certain polarity was correct which would be confirmed by a green LED next to the incoming connections, then isolate batteries, install main fuse and reconnect. 

[Sea Dog]

Jim, whilst you're looking at replacement kit, you may wish to explore the option of fitting a separate inverter and charger.  After the charger side of my Mastervolt Combi expired, I went for the Victron 2000 inverter and a separate Victron charger and the setup works well.  The inverter is still an easy replacement, but there is a wee bit more work to do, e.g. in the shore power switching if opting for separates, so it sounds like that will send you down the route of hiring help.  Not such a problem if you're not going to go for self fit anyway.

The advantage is, of course, any future failure does not take out everything.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

25 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Jim, whilst you're looking at replacement kit, you may wish to explore the option of fitting a separate inverter and charger.  After the charger side of my Mastervolt Combi expired, I went for the Victron 2000 inverter and a separate Victron charger and the setup works well.  The inverter is still an easy replacement, but there is a wee bit more work to do, e.g. in the shore power switching if opting for separates, so it sounds like that will send you down the route of hiring help.  Not such a problem if you're not going to go for self fit anyway.

The advantage is, of course, any future failure does not take out everything.

+1 on this. If/when my combi needs replacing I'll be installing a separate charger and inverter. Much more damage resistant.

 

Jen

[nicknorman]

... but on the other hand, seamless and automatic switching between charging and inverting is good.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

With Victron stuff you still get the automatic switch over from shore mains to inverter if the shore mains goes out. If you have the charger working from the incoming shore mains, then you get automatic switch on of the charger too. Needs some work on RCD's etc to ensure it is properly protected, but can be done. Another automatic switching possibility is with a mains relay, switching the charger on downstream of the consumer unit when the mains shore in has power. As @Sea Dog says, it is more wiring, but more resilient.

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

... but on the other hand, seamless and automatic switching between charging and inverting is good.

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Jim Batty]

4 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It doesn't need to. The charger current needs to be matched to the battery bank size, but that is a matter of buying a combi with the appropriate current to either charge from low, or maintain the charge, depending on how you use your boat. My 1600VA Victron combi is perfectly adequate for charging 4x115Ahr batteries and a 60Ahr start battery from low, for example. For inverting, it will just draw the current it needs till the battery voltage drops below the set level, when it will alarm and shut off the mains output.

 

They are. They are little switches on the circuit board under the front cover of the combi. DIP stands for dual inline package and are switches that can be placed and soldered on to a circuit board by automated manufacturing equipment. like other electronic components. Often used for configuration settings that will not need altering often. They are easy to set, but small. A cocktail stick, or match stick may be useful if you have sausage fingers. ? Just set the combination you want for charging regime on two of the switches, then cycle the end switch to store the new setting in the units memory, as described in the manual.

Never tried I'm afraid. What does it do? My inverter is pretty ancient now, so it may not have it.

 

Edited to add: Search mode can cause problems with things like phone chargers, where the power draw is below the threshold for turning on the mains. Fridges can also be a problem sometimes. I've never tried it, but some have. Depends what gadgets you have hooked up to the mains if you can live with it or not.

 

Jen

I see, it seeks to maintain the charge.

Excellent. I'll have my magnifying glass handy for DIP switches.

OK, I can see how a phone charger could remain below the radar. I could query Victron on that one.

 

We CC 7 to 12 months a year, and don't have a lot of electronically demanding stuff. 12v fridge ... and all sorts of rechargeable items. So I'd rather keep the replacement very simple.

[Jim Batty]

4 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

We had a 3kw 70 amp combi on the barge brought in 2007 and still working when we sold this year. I seem to remember  it needed to be set for the type of battery being charged using the dip switch and also the amperage of the battery bank. Otherwise used it as it came out of the box. As others have said use the right sized cables. The older ones didn’t have a computer interface but it did come with a variable amp setting for shore power so that we’re there was poor supply you could set the unit to switch from shore to inverter if a heavy use was switched on. It was quite amazing that if the shore power went out the box switched so quickly that the tv never blinked. It was on permanently to run a mains voltage fridge . 

The present battery cables are 70mmsq, so perfect. I haven't worked out the AC yet -- they're 10mm outside dia. I need to check that the breaker switches in the cabinet are correct -- 40 amp I believe.

 

Yea, the old PowerMaster would switch instantaneously. Not that we ever really put this to the test.

3 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Just a precaution:

I don't know if it's the same now but the older Victrons weren't polarity protected. I was advised by my supplier to leave the main incoming DC fuse out before connecting batteries until I was certain polarity was correct which would be confirmed by a green LED next to the incoming connections, then isolate batteries, install main fuse and reconnect. 

Thanks. I will need to be confident I know the exact procedure before I attempt any of this.

[Jim Batty]

3 hours ago, Dinz said:

Hi Jim.

Where is your location?

I have the interface module and a PC with the software.

Dave

Hi Dave

 

We're in West Mills, outside Newbury on the K&A. On a nice winter mooring with all the luxuries, like ... water on tap ... and shore power.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

Yea, the old PowerMaster would switch instantaneously. Not that we ever really put this to the test.

The Victron switch over from shore to inverter and back is so fast that a PC is unaffected. Similar to a UPS.

 

11 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

We CC 7 to 12 months a year, and don't have a lot of electronically demanding stuff. 12v fridge ... and all sorts of rechargeable items. So I'd rather keep the replacement very simple.

Might be worth just switching the inverter off when you are cruising and all your gadgets are charged up. Alternatively, look at 12V car style USB chargers for phones and such like, which will mean you can keep your inverter off, or in power save mode for longer and save more battery charge.

 

Jen

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

The present battery cables are 70mmsq, so perfect.

Its not just current carrying capacity, it is current & distance so "perfect"  depends on how far the inverter is from the batteries.

70mmsq is fine up to about 3 metres cable length. At 4 metres you should be thinking about increasing the cable size to minimise volt drop.

[Dinz]

3 hours ago, Jim Batty said:

Hi Dave

 

We're in West Mills, outside Newbury on the K&A. On a nice winter mooring with all the luxuries, like ... water on tap ... and shore power.

Not far. If you go the Victron way & have issues PM me & I can lend you interface if needed.

[Jim Batty]

 

On 28/11/2019 at 16:15, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The Victron switch over from shore to inverter and back is so fast that a PC is unaffected. Similar to a UPS.

 

Might be worth just switching the inverter off when you are cruising and all your gadgets are charged up. Alternatively, look at 12V car style USB chargers for phones and such like, which will mean you can keep your inverter off, or in power save mode for longer and save more battery charge.

 

Jen

Yes, the inverter is normally off -- it's sort of a luxury to have shore power. Half the year 200w of solar give us all the power and charging we need ... and just turn the inverter on as we need it.

 

On 28/11/2019 at 19:16, Dinz said:

Not far. If you go the Victron way & have issues PM me & I can lend you interface if needed.

Thanks Dinz. At the moment, I'm hoping to keep this very simple ... but if I think I need something special will contact you. 

[Jim Batty]

On 28/11/2019 at 16:01, Jim Batty said:

Search mode can cause problems with things like phone chargers, where the power draw is below the threshold for turning on the mains. Fridges can also be a problem sometimes. I've never tried it, but some have. Depends what gadgets you have hooked up to the mains if you can live with it or not.

 

Jen

 

We've got a new Victron MultiPlus 12v / 1600w / 70Amp inverter-charger ... and I've decided to have an expert hook it up!

 

When the Search Mode on this Victron is activated the quoted defaults are:

Shut Down = 40 Watts (linear load)

Turn On = 100 Watts (linear load)

 

I'm trying to calculate whether it would shut down when using low draw items like a phone charger, a radio on charge, or a hand-hoover on charge. With these items, should I be looking at their rated INPUTs or OUTPUTs?

 

For example, for the Phone Charger:

INPUT is 100-240v / 0.35A   (Watts = v x A; so 240 x 0.35 = 84W)

OUTPUT is 5v / 2.1A   (Watts = v x A; so 5 x 2.1 = 10.5W)

 

Which wattage for the phone charger plays a role in when the inverter shuts down to save energy, 84W or 10.5W?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Jim Batty

[Sea Dog]

18 minutes ago, Jim Batty said:

We've got a new Victron MultiPlus 12v / 1600w / 70Amp inverter-charger ... and I've decided to have an expert hook it up!

 

When the Search Mode on this Victron is activated the quoted defaults are:

Shut Down = 40 Watts (linear load)

Turn On = 100 Watts (linear load)

 

I'm trying to calculate whether it would shut down when using low draw items like a phone charger, a radio on charge, or a hand-hoover on charge. With these items, should I be looking at their rated INPUTs or OUTPUTs?

 

For example, for the Phone Charger:

INPUT is 100-240v / 0.35A   (Watts = v x A; so 240 x 0.35 = 84W)

OUTPUT is 5v / 2.1A   (Watts = v x A; so 5 x 2.1 = 10.5W)

 

Which wattage for the phone charger plays a role in when the inverter shuts down to save energy, 84W or 10.5W?

Im not sure it's quite as simple as a 40w load or whatever. I have a Victron Phoenix inverter which has an eco mode. It would not enter that mode with everything 230v disconnected until I removed a 2 gang socket with usb ports. No load anywhere at all apart from the empty usb ports. I swapped this socket for a standard 2 gang socket and, hey presto, eco mode kicked in.