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Marina electric tripping


frahkn

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The marina has phoned me to say that my shore power is tripping at the pillar and that they have switched it off.

 

I cannot visit the boat before next Monday but I know that only the Mastervolt combi is switched on (for battery float). There is nothing plugged into the 240v circuit and the 12v fridge and water pumps are switched off.

 

The marina staff say that they have checked the pillar and that all is well there.

 

What are the likely problems and what is a sensible diagnostic procedure.

 

Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Maybe with the rain, water has got into your shore line connections.

I'll certainly check that but the connections seemed secure last time I saw them.

 

I have a spare 50m of Arctic cable here at home, perhaps I should get some new plugs for this and take it with me?

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37 minutes ago, frahkn said:

I'll certainly check that but the connections seemed secure last time I saw them.

 

I have a spare 50m of Arctic cable here at home, perhaps I should get some new plugs for this and take it with me?

  If you have nothing switched on and having not changed anything that's where I would start especially with the amount of rain we've had. Are you the only boat on the piller or if shared with others has your boat supply got its own breaker and a master breaker for the whole piller which is tripping? Hope you understand what I mean.

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7 hours ago, bastion said:

The first thing we check are the lead connectors and 99% of the time water has got into them and are tripping the breakers.

Yup, you don’t need much moisture in one of those plugs to trip an RCD. 

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9 hours ago, frahkn said:

The marina has phoned me to say that my shore power is tripping at the pillar and that they have switched it off.

 

I cannot visit the boat before next Monday but I know that only the Mastervolt combi is switched on (for battery float). There is nothing plugged into the 240v circuit and the 12v fridge and water pumps are switched off.

 

The marina staff say that they have checked the pillar and that all is well there.

 

What are the likely problems and what is a sensible diagnostic procedure.

 

Thanks.

Just a point on the Combi - if the Combi switch is set to On then when the external power fails, it starts inverting and hence draining the battery. If you set the switch to “charger only” then it charges the batteries but if the external power goes off, it switches off and doesn’t drain the battery at all. I’m not clear which position you have the switch, but unless it is vital to maintain the mains supply inside the boat, the switch should be set to “charger only” when you leave the boat, to prevent the possibility of flattening the batteries.

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8 hours ago, PD1964 said:

  If you have nothing switched on and having not changed anything that's where I would start especially with the amount of rain we've had. Are you the only boat on the piller or if shared with others has your boat supply got its own breaker and a master breaker for the whole piller which is tripping? Hope you understand what I mean.

Yes, there are 3 others but I got the (possibly incorrect) impression, over the phone that it was only my breaker which was tripping. That's something else to check on Monday.

16 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Just a point on the Combi - if the Combi switch is set to On then when the external power fails, it starts inverting and hence draining the battery. If you set the switch to “charger only” then it charges the batteries but if the external power goes off, it switches off and doesn’t drain the battery at all. I’m not clear which position you have the switch, but unless it is vital to maintain the mains supply inside the boat, the switch should be set to “charger only” when you leave the boat, to prevent the possibility of flattening the batteries.

My combi is a 2003 version and only has off/on/remote options. When off the sockets are still powered but, at the moment, there is nothing plugged into them.

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7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

All of the above, plus of course your combi may have failed and caused it to trip.

Well at least that will be easy to diagnose - if expensive to fix.

 

Still, I suppose 16 years is fair enough.

Edited by frahkn
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The usual connectors used for shore power leads are not rated as watertight but splashproof only and they frequently allow moisture in particularly if the lead runs vertically down into the plug, it has rained a lot in the last few weeks.  I don't leave the boat switched on, but the lead is usually left connected and the shore bollard off, several times over the years, I have returned, switched the bollard on only for it to trip, every time one of the plugs, just open up, wipe with paper towel, reassemble and alls fine. 

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As has already been mentioned, the typical connectors on boats are splash proof only. IP44. I reckon most boats have the sockets installed the wrong way up. If they are installed as shown below, the water doesn't collect around the pins, between plug and socket anything like so easily. The cable entry on the plug has hot melt glue around it to slow down water ingress and the cable is arranged with a loop, so most of the water running down it drips from the bottom of the loop. Since doing all this the frequency of it tripping out the bollard from getting wet inside has reduced considerably. Driving rain on to the connector and snow seemed to be particular problems.

 

Jen

IMG_20191126_152207.jpg.fb0b01c79f4d09878d78cbb5df2e5dc4.jpg

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Connect the wires into the plug/socket fill (pot) it with Silicon and reassemble the plug / socket.

 

 

In electronics, potting is a process of filling a complete electronic assembly with a solid or gelatinous compound for resistance to shock and vibration, and for exclusion of moisture and corrosive agents.

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52 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

As has already been mentioned, the typical connectors on boats are splash proof only. IP44. I reckon most boats have the sockets installed the wrong way up. If they are installed as shown below, the water doesn't collect around the pins, between plug and socket anything like so easily. The cable entry on the plug has hot melt glue around it to slow down water ingress and the cable is arranged with a loop, so most of the water running down it drips from the bottom of the loop. Since doing all this the frequency of it tripping out the bollard from getting wet inside has reduced considerably. Driving rain on to the connector and snow seemed to be particular problems.

 

Jen

IMG_20191126_152207.jpg.fb0b01c79f4d09878d78cbb5df2e5dc4.jpg

Does the standard not specify which way up these should be installed?

 

Ir what about this type - more discreet less vulnerable to accidental damage, and less likely to fill with water?

 

41HKuaU61qL._AC_SY400_.jpg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/W4-20013-Flush-Mains-Inlet/dp/B001R0IXRE/ref=pd_aw_sbs_200_13?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001R0IXRE&pd_rd_r=7acf8215-c1cd-4f54-920d-8d2e14e19328&pd_rd_w=11fZo&pd_rd_wg=DkIpO&pf_rd_p=5818759f-d536-4eca-aa1c-635efdddd146&pf_rd_r=3C2HG9J4YZDXNKDYQW74&psc=1&refRID=VS75TVHPGCJPCVZJ6B8D

Edited by David Mack
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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

That's is what we have on our Cruiser.

 

Ensure that the lead on the socket goes 'downwards' and no water gets into the plug.

 

On the NB we had a 90 degree (downwards) 'wall mount' plug and when the socket was connected everything pointed downwards so, again. no water could enter the plug/socket

Cable entry from the rear (thru' the wall)

 

2CMA193098R1000 - Pin & Sleeve Connector, 16 A, 250 V, Cable Mount, Socket, 2P+E, Blue

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9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Does the standard not specify which way up these should be installed?

Don't know, never found one. If it does, then I doubt if more than a tiny percentage of people fitting one have read it.

 

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

There are better solutions, but most boats have the IP44 sockets. The one you've linked to needs a big cut out in the steelwork to install, but is much neater as you say.

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On the NB we had a 90 degree (downwards) 'wall mount' plug and when the socket was connected everything pointed downwards so, again. no water could enter the plug/socket

Cable entry from the rear (thru' the wall)

 

2CMA193098R1000 - Pin & Sleeve Connector, 16 A, 250 V, Cable Mount, Socket, 2P+E, Blue

I think the picture there is of a wall mount socket, not plug, judging by the sprung loaded cover. With a wall mount plug, mounted facing downwards, then water can run in between it and the round blue plastic protecting the socket of the shore lead. It collects at the bottom of the socket until there is enough current leakage to trip the bollard RCD. Turning them so they face up, the way the blue plastic mouldings are layered when inserted shields the wall mount plug from water pooling around the pins, unless the rain is extreme.

 

Jen

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17 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I think the picture there is of a wall mount socket, not plug, judging by the sprung loaded cover.

That one may be, but the one we had was covered, the plug cover opened one way and the socket cover opened the other.

 

 

The ones we have on the 'Cat' are fully Marine rated 'Marinco' type which have a cover on the plug.

The Marinco is a 'screw' fit with a neoprene seal / ring gasket on the female (socket)

 

 

I have made another cable to suit Marincio at the boat end (socket) and a standard Blue16a Plug on the 'land' end.

the rest of Europe seems to use Marinco on both 'ends'

Marinco Compatible International Marine Shore Power 16A Stainless Steel Inlet

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The ones we have on the 'Cat' are fully Marine rated 'Marinco' type which have a cover on both plug & socket.

 

 

I have made another cable to suit Marincio at the boat end (socket) and a standard Blue16a Plug on the 'land' end.

the rest of Europe seems to use Marinco on both 'ends'

Marinco Compatible International Marine Shore Power 16A Stainless Steel Inlet

 

Those look much better. The IP44 fittings used on most UK inland boats are a bit rubbish really.

 

Jen

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19 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

As has already been mentioned, the typical connectors on boats are splash proof only. IP44. I reckon most boats have the sockets installed the wrong way up. If they are installed as shown below, the water doesn't collect around the pins, between plug and socket anything like so easily. The cable entry on the plug has hot melt glue around it to slow down water ingress and the cable is arranged with a loop, so most of the water running down it drips from the bottom of the loop. Since doing all this the frequency of it tripping out the bollard from getting wet inside has reduced considerably. Driving rain on to the connector and snow seemed to be particular problems.

 

Jen

IMG_20191126_152207.jpg.fb0b01c79f4d09878d78cbb5df2e5dc4.jpg

 

Coming from a working lifetime of using these connectors and being totally picky that is "wrong" as well. The pins should be horizontal thus stopping the water running into the cable gland. 

It can be a complete PITA having to make sure the hundreds of connectors that you have on an outdoor show are all horizontal but it pays in the longterm.

 

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23 minutes ago, Loddon said:

 

Coming from a working lifetime of using these connectors and being totally picky that is "wrong" as well. The pins should be horizontal thus stopping the water running into the cable gland. 

It can be a complete PITA having to make sure the hundreds of connectors that you have on an outdoor show are all horizontal but it pays in the longterm.

 

At last! An answer from someone who knows. I don't think I have ever seen a boat with these plugs and sockets horizontal. We've all got it wrong! ?

The four threaded holes in the bulkhead to attach the wall plug are on a rectangle, rather than a square, so no easy way to turn mine horizontal.

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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21 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

At last! An answer from someone who knows. I don't think I have ever seen a boat with these plugs and sockets horizontal. We've all got it wrong! ?

The four threaded holes in the bulkhead to attach the wall plug are on a rectangle, rather than a square, so no easy way to turn mine horizontal.

 

Jen

Just turn the socket upside down (thru 180*) the water won't run in then as the socket shrouds the plug ad the plug cable entry is vertical with the entry at the lowest point.

IMG_20191126_152207.jpg.fb0b01c79f4d09878d78cbb5df2e5dc4.jpg

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53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just turn the socket upside down (thru 180*) the water won't run in then as the socket shrouds the plug ad the plug cable entry is vertical with the entry at the lowest point.

Unfortunately, this just doesn't work with the plug and socket on my boat. I've tried it. May be different on yours. Driving rain, or snow settling will get water in through the gap shown. This then collects in the shore lead socket, till it forms enough depth to allow live-earth leakage. The way up in my original photo prevents this, leaving only the cable entry in to the shore lead socket as a route in. Hence the extra hot melt glue around the cable entry.

 

Besides which, your photo shows my boat upside down and I really don't want to do that! ?

Jen

 

wet.jpg.91d103cdac0b0f9b6a0d6886f2dfb5ab.jpg

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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