Lincolnshire Police. What3words

[Sea Dog]

Is there ever a situation where your phone can give you a w3w position but not a Lat-Long?  Both rely on a GPS position and w3w projects the Lat-Long from that onto their proprietary grid for those who find Lat-Long a challenge. @1st ade 's system in the previous post looks a better way to do that in an emergency situation to me, leaving w3w useful for locating things for personal communication. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Sea Dog
Corrected as 1St Ad's post was on the previous page, not above.

[Murflynn]

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Agreed, but my point was the emergency services when you phone them, still ask you for a postcode not your w3w.

 

 

a high proportion of folk needing the emergency services will not be at their home address, so the question will be a waste of time.

12 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

I could be biased (because I helped develop AML) but W3W is a commercial gimmick which for the emergency services is not needed. It has it's uses (letting boat owners find each other in open countryside. Identifying specific cottages on open moorland etc) but for 999 we have AML - Advanced Mobile Location. It's built into the core of every smartphone (and if you ain't got a smartphone W3W won't help either)

 

AML

Dial 999 (or 112) but you were going to do that anyway.

Speak to the BT operator who asks "which service do you require"

In the background, your phone checks the batters state, if enough then enable GPS (which you need for W3W...)

While you're still talking, the phone sends a silent (and free) text to 999 with you lat / long and altitude.

BT merge the text and the voice call (as they come from the same number) and pass on to Blue Light Services

 

The problem with AML is the Blue Light Services who won't adopt it.

 

Which hasn't stopped BT offering it (free) to other countries who have lapped it up.

 

<whinge over>

if boatowners are lost in the open countryside than their boats are probably stranded after a flood in South Yorkshire.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

a high proportion of folk needing the emergency services will not be at their home address, so the question will be a waste of time.

 

Agreed.

 

And so will be "what is your w3w location?", as 99% of the general population will have no idea what the operator is on about. 

 

 

[Alway Swilby]

I just wish it was called which three words.

[Jerra]

19 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

I could be biased (because I helped develop AML) but W3W is a commercial gimmick which for the emergency services is not needed.

If that is the case why are my ;local emergency services appealing to people to use W3W?

[1st ade]

6 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If that is the case why are my ;local emergency services appealing to people to use W3W?

Short answer - I don't know. I've pinged an email to the head of the 999 service at BT to ask him to ask the question more formally. I may (or may not) be allowed to make the reply public.

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Short answer - I don't know. I've pinged an email to the head of the 999 service at BT to ask him to ask the question more formally. I may (or may not) be allowed to make the reply public.

Incidentally I have just tested W3W with no reception or wifi and while it doesn't give a map it does give the correct 3 words.   So up here in Cumbria where many places have no reception it has an advantage.

 

For example accident on the fell no reception.  Person makes their way to where there is reception leaving casualty on the fell.  They can give the W3W words for the location rather than the AML for where they are calling from.

[doratheexplorer]

52 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Agreed, but my point was the emergency services when you phone them, still ask you for a postcode not your w3w.

 

 

Except, increasingly they are asking for w3w.  Put it on your phone, what's the worst that can happen?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

Except, increasingly they are asking for w3w.  Put it on your phone, what's the worst that can happen?

 

The worst I can imagine is it contains a trojan that captures all my data and empties all my bank accounts. Seeing as you ask. 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The worst I can imagine is it contains a trojan that captures all my data and empties all my bank accounts. Seeing as you ask. 

 

 

They're welcome to my overdraft!!!

 

[sirweste]

On 13/08/2019 at 10:29, StuartC said:

Here's the analysis on why Google decided to use a different approach. Makes interesting reading... if you're a nerd!

On 14/08/2019 at 09:50, sirweste said:

While W3W is designed to be easy to use by the technically challenged and easier to remember, it has obvious and glaring limitations.

 

Limitations which plus code was designed not to have. 

 

Quite simply, if you think W3W is great or you think local knowledge and a map is better, then most likely your not from the tech generation. Plus codes are designed for the future, a future which a lot of you won't be alive in! 

 

 

 

Basically W3W is a gimmick that should be killed off ASAP. Plus codes are a much much better alternative

 

[Richard10002]

28 minutes ago, sirweste said:

 

Basically W3W is a gimmick that should be killed off ASAP. Plus codes are a much much better alternative

 

What are “plus codes”?

[Keeping Up]

3 hours ago, 1st ade said:

I could be biased (because I helped develop AML) but W3W is a commercial gimmick which for the emergency services is not needed.

 

....

 

The problem with AML is the Blue Light Services who won't adopt it.

 

If I understand this correctly you have negated your own objection

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Keeping Up

[Richard10002]

Presumably, at the head of the emergency services, someone has studied the various ways in which casualties/callers might provide their location, in some order of popularity.

 

These might include:

 

Address

position relative to a road junction with, or without, a landmark, (shop or statue, or similar)

Lat and Long

W3W

and so on.

 

Given that operators need to know the position to send the service to, presumably they will be trained to obtain this in the most efficient way possible.

 

In the absence of anything else, asking, “Have you got your What Three Words position, or is there someone nearby who can get it?” is a very quick question, or, if a caller has access to a smartphone with GPS, it wouldn’t be too much trouble to talk them through obtaining the W3W position.

 

Whilst it’s available, it would make sense to include W3W in the questioning related to position/location. If/when it becomes a paid for app, that is a bridge that can be crossed at the time.

 

It would certainly be irresponsible, and possibly negligent, to ignore it and refuse to use it.

 

The developers would be crazy to charge either anything, or more than a couple of quid, as it would decimate useage. There are a variety of ways of monetising stuff once a large user base has been established, and one could assume that they are looking at these.

[sirweste]

14 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

What are “plus codes”?

Check out the link quoted in my previous reply, it basically discusses pros and cons of each option. Plus codes are the well thought out option that I hope gets adopted as the international standard

[Murflynn]

5 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Check out the link quoted in my previous reply, it basically discusses pros and cons of each option. Plus codes are the well thought out option that I hope gets adopted as the international standard

really?  have you checked that?

 

.......................  or are you just a man of mystery - a male Lady G for example?

[sirweste]

Checked what? The link? I hadn't as it worked last time, but checked it now and it is indeed working (for me).

Checked the article? Yes read it last time, was a good geeking out session.

[Richard10002]

11 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Check out the link quoted in my previous reply, it basically discusses pros and cons of each option. Plus codes are the well thought out option that I hope gets adopted as the international standard

Thanks for that.... 10 minutes of my life I won’t get back, reading a pile of conspiracy theory bollox, in order to find one line. Why not just point us to the Wikipedia link?

 

You can hope all you like but, if it “isn’t” the international standard, that’s not much use to someone needing help today.

 

Plus codes look fine, although you can be sure that Google will be looking to monetise them? No reason why they couldn’t be added to the list of ways in which the emergency services identify location.

 

”Can you get your plus code location?”

”Can you get your What Three Words location?”

 

Struggling to see why the resistance to W3W. It’s free, just like Google, Facebook, lots of email services, and so on. If it’s charged for in an unacceptable way, people won’t use it.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, 1st ade said:

I could be biased (because I helped develop AML) but W3W is a commercial gimmick which for the emergency services is not needed. It has it's uses (letting boat owners find each other in open countryside. Identifying specific cottages on open moorland etc) but for 999 we have AML - Advanced Mobile Location. It's built into the core of every smartphone (and if you ain't got a smartphone W3W won't help either)

 

AML

Dial 999 (or 112) but you were going to do that anyway.

Speak to the BT operator who asks "which service do you require"

In the background, your phone checks the batters state, if enough then enable GPS (which you need for W3W...)

While you're still talking, the phone sends a silent (and free) text to 999 with you lat / long and altitude.

BT merge the text and the voice call (as they come from the same number) and pass on to Blue Light Services

 

The problem with AML is the Blue Light Services who won't adopt it.

 

Which hasn't stopped BT offering it (free) to other countries who have lapped it up.

 

<whinge over>

If that is the case why do the bother asking you where you are and for a post code if they already know exactly what your location is? A friend of mine came across an accident and had to look the pub postcode up on his phone to tell the ambulance service what the postcode of the incident was 

[1st ade]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If that is the case why do the bother asking you where you are and for a post code if they already know exactly what your location is? A friend of mine came across an accident and had to look the pub postcode up on his phone to tell the ambulance service what the postcode of the incident was 

BT*, in conjunction with one mobile CSP, one handset manufacturer and UK National Government developed and tested the idea. After a few tweaks it was gradually rolled out to other networks, other handsets and other manufacturer's. The standard is open and has been made available to other countries (the code is in all handsets, not just those sold in the UK)

 

Postcodes are surprisingly useless in this scenario - not because you can't find them but because many people don't know instinctively the post code of where they are now. A common use case was a mourner having a heart attack at a funeral - those present had just driven from all over the country to .... Crematorium and knew the name but not the address or post code.

 

BT have no power to force individual police or ambulance services to accept the location. And I'm not going to die in a ditch (possibly literally) by saying to the call handler "no, I'm not going to install W3W". But if a relative of mine was in the "I'm under a tree and don't know where I am" scenario I'd be asking serious questions around why that police / ambulance service didn't use the information that BT make available when forwarding the call.

 

AML is not perfect and doesn't cover the "I had no signal when we found the casualty but I do now" scenario. But it doesn't need the caller to be conscious, to speak English or even to speak. Rapists have been caught because the victim managed to dial 999 and keep screaming. Robbers have been caught as someone managed to dial 999 and the call handler heard gunshots.

 

[ * - All 999 / 112 calls in the UK go to BT Call Handlers. They then forward to Police / Fire / Ambulance / Coastguard as required. BT also forward a rough position based on location of the subscriber (landline) or the cell site (mobile). This sorts out (for example) if you want Thames Valley Police or Bedford Police. AML adds a much greater degree of accuracy a few seconds later ]

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

I just wish it was called which three words.

They couldn't call it that as that location is a fish and chip shop in Grimsby.

 

[Graham Davis]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Agreed, but my point was the emergency services when you phone them, still ask you for a postcode not your w3w.

 

 

They may in your area, Mike, but certainly around here they don't, since a post code can cover a huge area. 
At one stage the local YFClubs were visiting all remote houses and issuing them with their 6 figure map references as the Fire and Ambulance services were asking for those. I haven't checked whether they are now looking at What3words.

 

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

They may in your area, Mike, but certainly around here they don't, since a post code can cover a huge area. 
At one stage the local YFClubs were visiting all remote houses and issuing them with their 6 figure map references as the Fire and Ambulance services were asking for those. I haven't checked whether they are now looking at What3words.

 

Our local Fire Service is certainly suggesting W3W helps them locate yiou quickly.

[Graham Davis]

5 hours ago, 1st ade said:

I could be biased (because I helped develop AML) but W3W is a commercial gimmick which for the emergency services is not needed. It has it's uses (letting boat owners find each other in open countryside. Identifying specific cottages on open moorland etc) but for 999 we have AML - Advanced Mobile Location. It's built into the core of every smartphone (and if you ain't got a smartphone W3W won't help either)

 

AML

Dial 999 (or 112) but you were going to do that anyway.

Speak to the BT operator who asks "which service do you require"

In the background, your phone checks the batters state, if enough then enable GPS (which you need for W3W...)

While you're still talking, the phone sends a silent (and free) text to 999 with you lat / long and altitude.

BT merge the text and the voice call (as they come from the same number) and pass on to Blue Light Services

 

The problem with AML is the Blue Light Services who won't adopt it.

 

Which hasn't stopped BT offering it (free) to other countries who have lapped it up.

 

<whinge over>

Are you sure about that? Because speaking to people I know in the emergency services that doesn't happen, plus it is known to be very inaccurate in rural areas where only one mast is used so it cannot triangulate.
And you are presuming that everyone has a Smart Phone, which they don't.

[Graham Davis]

3 hours ago, sirweste said:

 

Basically W3W is a gimmick that should be killed off ASAP. Plus codes are a much much better alternative

 

Are they? 
I've just tried to get a Plus code for my address and it couldn't find it and could only give me a general position at the top of a hill, outside town. And to do that took me several clicks, where as W3W was one action.
And what is to stop Google charging later on?

Edited November 14, 2019 by Graham Davis